Can the Remnant Church Fail?

[Nic Samojluk]

Can the Remnant Church of God fail in its divinely appointed mission to a perishing world? If you read what Ellen White wrote you will discover that it certainly can, and if you read our denominational magazines, you will find out that it actually did.

It is all there in the pages of “Ministry”, “Spectrum,” “Adventist Today,” and so on. How do I know this? I did the hard investigative work. It took me several years of painstaking effort and I was finally able to publish the result in book form. Let me share with you a few historical and documented facts I discovered as a result of my research:

A. The church which was initially opposed to the killing of war enemies in self defense, ended by allowing the killing of their own harmless unborn children who posed no threat to their lives. Contrast the heroic example of Desmond T. Doss, who refused to carry a gun in self defense and was awarded the medal of honor for his bravery as an army medic with our church which led the way in the killing of innocent unborn children when it allowed our Castle Memorial Hospital in Hawaii to offer abortions on demand back in 1970—three years before the U.S. Supreme Court legalized the genocide of the unborn.

B. The church which started by preaching the permanence and validity of all Ten of God’s Commandments and blamed the Catholics Church for altering the meaning of one the Fourth Commandment, ended by redefining the original meaning of Sixth One which forbids the killing of innocent human beings. Think about this: Which action is more offensive to a holy God—the worship of the Lord on the wrong day of the week or the slaughter of innocent unborn human beings?

C. The church that championed the campaign against smoking, which tends to deprive those addicted to Tobacco of five years of their lives, led the way in the deprivation of the entire lives of those waiting for the chance to see the light of day. Which is worse: Shortening one’s life by a few years or cutting short the entire life span of an innocent unborn baby?

D. The church which has been the leader in the healthy lifestyle movement ended by justifying the sacrifice of a woman’s own unborn baby in order to protect her own lifestyle. Contrast the “Mental Health Exception” we find in our church “Guidelines on Abortion” which places the woman’s lifestyle above the life of her unborn baby with the example of Jesus Christ who gave up his heavenly lifestyle for a life of service to save the life of others.

These findings and many other historical facts have led me to conclude that my Remnant Church can not only fail, as Ellen White stated, but it actually did fail in its sacred mission end needs to repent. There is a need for a revival and reformation and such revival must include the protection of human life. We must return to the defense of all Ten of God’s Commandments. Keeping only Nine of the Ten will not entitle us to keep the label of “God’s Remnant Church on Earth.”

When I presented a pre-publication copy of my book to a highly visible and respected LLU theologian end ethicist, he made the following comment: “This book should be in every Adventist school library.” Shouldn’t you read it? Here is the title and some links you can use to access the printer’s site.

“From Pro-life to Pro-choice: The Dramatic Shift in Seventh-day Attitudes Towards Abortion.”

A. http://www.lulu.com/browse/search.php?fListingClass=7&fSearch=%22From+Pro-life+to+Pro-choice%22&fSubmitSearch=Go&showingSubPanels=&fSort=relevance_desc

B. From Pro-life to Pro-choice - Lulu1.com.htm

C. http://www.lulu.com/browse/books/7 and then type my name—Nic Samojluk- or the firs few words of the title of the book—From Pro-life—in the search blank space.

[John317]

While I'm personally opposed to abortion and would never advise it, I support the right of other people to decide for themselves. Similarly, I support the right of other people to do many things that I consider wrong and immoral. God doesn't force people to do what's right.

I believe the best way to attack abortion is through education and the preaching of the gospel, not the legislature.

The issue of abortion is not the main subject that the Remnant Church should be concerned with. It's one of the many distractions Satan uses to get us off track and divided, so the church isn't giving the Three Angels Messages. Ceasing to allow abortions-- and making laws against it for other people-- won't hasten the second coming of Christ.

[Nic Samojluk]

John317 wrote,

“While I'm personally opposed to abortion and would never advise it, I support the right of other people to decide for themselves. Similarly, I support the right of other people to do many things that I consider wrong and immoral. God doesn't force people to do what's right.

I believe the best way to attack abortion is through education and the preaching of the gospel, not the legislature.

The issue of abortion is not the main subject that the Remnant Church should be concerned with. It's one of the many distractions Satan uses to get us off track and divided, so the church isn't giving the Three Angels Messages. Ceasing to allow abortions-- and making laws against it for other people-- won't hasten the second coming of Christ.”

*********

Hi, John! Would you apply the same do nothing policy to other moral issues like burglary, theft, rape, and the sexual abuse of little children? What is the role of our government according to Scripture? Does the government’s representative carry a “sword” in vain? Isn’t it to punish the evildoers and to protect the innocent from harm? If some evildoer were threatening an innocent child, would you say: “I support the right of other people to decide for themselves”? or would you perhaps intervene and call the police?

Bear in mind that a woman who is raped can with God’s grace recover from the terrible ordeal and probably lead a productive life afterwards. This the aborted baby can never do. A stolen car can be replaced, but a stolen life is an irreversible act which deprives of the most precious gift from an unborn baby.

Remember what Jesus said about how heaven values children. He said: “Let the children come to me!” How can those children come to Jesus if they are deprived of life before they have had a chance to see the light of day? He also said that anyone who offends one of those little ones he would be better off if he tied a stone to his neck and jumped into the ocean.

I agree with you that our main job is to preach the Gospel, which includes the offer of forgiveness for our sins, but how can a woman who has killed her own child repent if our church is teaching by word and example that abortion is no big thing under a variety of circumstances including when a woman is faced with an unwanted pregnancy and her mental health is affected. Have you ever seen a woman in those circumstances who is not temporarily depressed? She tells her doctor: “I feel depressed and I cant study, work and sleep,” and bingo, another innocent child is murdered.

Above all, remember that the Adventist Church led the way for the legalization of abortion, which you do not agree with. Our "Castle Memorial Hospital" in Hawaii was allowed to offer abortions on demand three years before the U.S. Supreme Court legalized abortion in our mainland. Soon after, other Adventist hospitals did the same. Is this the mission of the “Remnant” Church?

[Gibs]

Let us look at this as a remnant is the same as the original. The original was a home church. That is what was going on in ACTS beside the temple of the Jews. Wonder then if the last will be the home church. Which one did Christ establish? Didn't it grow out of the home church the disciples and apostles then established. Which turned in AD 34 to be the Gospel to the Gentiles. Makes me wonder. Then in less than 300 yrs. became very apostate. True Protestantism died in less than 500 yrs. Who is protesting now? I see some of the dissenting ministries that came out of the SDA church and a few others and I maybe better not name any. Well I am still a Protestant, are you? Just some rambling thoughts. Bro. Gibs.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

92

[Neil D]

While I'm personally opposed to abortion and would never advise it, I support the right of other people to decide for themselves. Similarly, I support the right of other people to do many things that I consider wrong and immoral. God doesn't force people to do what's right.

I believe the best way to attack abortion is through education and the preaching of the gospel, not the legislature.

The issue of abortion is not the main subject that the Remnant Church should be concerned with. It's one of the many distractions Satan uses to get us off track and divided, so the church isn't giving the Three Angels Messages. Ceasing to allow abortions-- and making laws against it for other people-- won't hasten the second coming of Christ.

[Gibs]

Hamilton,

I am certain if the 144,000 aren't sealed by now they surely are close to being so. These are proclaimed to be the "servants of God".

Re 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

These are actually then His servants the prophets for a last end endevor that each must reach aprox. 49,000 people, 7 billion divided by 144,000.

There no doubt these are a very special number. then Rev 14 gives us more about these.

If we be one of these elect, EGW says this,

The One Hundred and Forty-four Thousand

Christ says that there will be those in the church who will present fables and suppositions, when God has given grand, elevating, ennobling truths which should ever be kept in the treasure house of the mind. When men pick up this theory and that theory, when they are curious to know something it is not necessary for them to know, God is not leading them. It is not His plan that His people shall present something which they have to suppose, which is not taught in the Word. It is not His will that they shall get into controversy over questions which will not help them spiritually, such as, Who is to compose the hundred and forty-four thousand? This those who are the elect of God will in a short time know without question. {1SM 174.3}

These will be driven by the indwelling Spirit of God to go and do what He has for each of them to do. Each of us are also to take a part in what His Spirit drives us to do. He talks to us continually, hear him. All are called to take a part there just is no doubt.

Folks the appointed time is at hand, the writing is on the wall and the hour is very late. It is closer than most think.

Bro. Gibs.

[Alchemy]

Can God's Remnant Church fail? Absolutely, and it seems it has been on that road for decades now.

Can God's Remnant Message fail? Never! It upholds all Ten Commandments even if the church fails to do so.

[Dr. Waite]

YES.

IF THE CHURCH AS DEFINED AND ESTABLISHED BY JESUS CHRIST, THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF THE LIVING ONLY TRUE GOD, CEASES TO ADHERE TO ALL THE DOCTRINES TAUGHT BY JESUS CHRIST IT HAS FALLEN. TO BE THE TRUE REMNANT CHURCH IT HAS TO BE EXACTLY LIKE THE ORIGINAL.

[Gerr]

And what was the original like? What did it teach?

[Gerr]

*********

Hi, John! Would you apply the same do nothing policy to other moral issues like burglary, theft, rape, and the sexual abuse of little children?

Apples and oranges.

Quote:

Bear in mind that a woman who is raped can with God’s grace recover from the terrible ordeal and probably lead a productive life afterwards. This the aborted baby can never do. A stolen car can be replaced, but a stolen life is an irreversible act which deprives of the most precious gift from an unborn baby.

I am pro-life, Nic, but forcing people to do something against their wishes especially victims of rape and incest is where I part with you. You add insult to the injury by making victims of rape and incest carry their pregnancy against their wishes. I don't believe that's the kind of God we serve.

I am glad that you are passionate for the unborn, but when that passion takes center stage ahead of the gospel, IMHO, that's unhealthy. The gospel, to me, is the greatest deterence to abortion.

[Dr. Waite]

And what was the original like? What did it teach?

First Lesson:

FIRST VERSE WHERE THE WORD "CHURCH" IS USED:

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Matthew 16:18

WHAT IS THIS "ROCK"?

Answer: The truth or doctrine that the original church had is that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. And that a revelation of this truth can only come from one person or being which is the Father and that part of the Father that is NOT flesh and blood.

Some teach that Jesus is NOT really the Son of the living God, but rather he takes the role and like a Hollywood actor he acts as the only begotten Son but is NOT the literal son of God.

The person who is condemned is the person who does NOT believe the name of the only begotten Son of God. See John 3:18

If you DO NOT believe that he is "begotten" or you believe that he only takes the role as the Son of the Living God, you CANNOT believe he name of the only begotten Son of God.

Second Lesson:

Every member must be born again. John 3:5-7

[John317]

...Some teach that Jesus is NOT really the Son of the living God, but rather he takes the role and like a Hollywood actor he acts as the only begotten Son but is NOT the literal son of God.

The person who is condemned is the person who does NOT believe the name of the only begotten Son of God. See John 3:18

If you DO NOT believe that he is "begotten" or you believe that he only takes the role as the Son of the Living God, you CANNOT believe he name of the only begotten Son of God.

In reference to Christ, what does it mean to be "begotten"?

Does the Bible say that the pre-incarnate Christ was literally the Son of God, as in having a beginning and deriving His life from the Father?

[Dr. Waite]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Waite

...Some teach that Jesus is NOT really the Son of the living God, but rather he takes the role and like a Hollywood actor he acts as the only begotten Son but is NOT the literal son of God.

The person who is condemned is the person who does NOT believe the name of the only begotten Son of God. See John 3:18

If you DO NOT believe that he is "begotten" or you believe that he only takes the role as the Son of the Living God, you CANNOT believe he name of the only begotten Son of God.

In reference to Christ, what does it mean to be "begotten"?

Does the Bible say that the pre-incarnate Christ was literally the Son of God, as in having a beginning and deriving His life from the Father?

"begotten" means born

Genesis 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters

Phileman 1:10 I beseech thee for my son Onesimus, whom I have begotten in my bonds

Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Hebrews 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

Yes, the pre-incarnate Christ was literally the Son of God

Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds

Christ was the Son when he made the worlds

Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

He was "made" which resulted in an inheritance better than the angels who he had created

Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

the angels worshiped the "firstbegotten" from the time they were created

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.

1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands.

He was the Son when he laid the foundation fo the world

[Gibs]

Can the remnant church fail? That is a tricky question in a way but know this the first church did fall but not the true ones from being His Bride by allowing error to come in. Then look at all history up through the ages, is there any that didn't, I know not one. If there is a reason for the falling from it, it is error and error only that is allowed to come into it's teaching. When truth is mixed with error it is no longer truth. The best lie you know is 99% truth.

God has always had a true church on earth and it is those who follow Him and Him only. You might say that it is to man the invisible church. The true church must come out of the apostate that's for sure. Read this little Quote, EGW,

"Among the leading causes that had led to the separation of the true church from Rome, was the hatred of the latter toward the Bible Sabbath. As foretold by prophecy, the papal power cast down the truth to the ground. The law of God was trampled in the dust, while the traditions and customs of men were exalted".

Do you not see the first church didn't stand in known error. It come out and will continue to do so. So the first church is the last, same as the first standing on the truth.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Nic Samojluk]

Gibs wrote:

“Well I am still a Protestant, are you?”

*********

Protestantism was born with a strident call to a return to the teachings of Scripture as normative instead of human tradition. Most reform movements tend to a return to a mixture of Scripture plus tradition. After a few generations, tradition tends to consolidate and Scripture is set aside.

Our new Adventist president made a call for a revival and reformation of the Adventist faith. One of the fundamental emphasis we find in the Bible is a claim that God is the Creator and therefore entitled to our worship, and the last call to humanity we find in the Bible includes a need to give glory to God as our creator.

Do Adventists need to heed this call for a revival of the true faith? I believe we do, because the number of Adventists who have been crediting Nature with the glory which belongs to God has been increasing at an alarming pace, and some of our leading universities have stopped teaching that God is the Creator and are indoctrinating their students with the belief that Nature owes nothing to God.

My view is that a true revival must include our respect of human life, which is the epitome of Gods creation. Darwinian evolution emphasizes the survival of the fittest, while the Bible places emphasis on the protection of the weakest members of the human race. Jesus did state that our eternal destiny will be decided on the way we treat “the least.” Can you name a group of human beings more entitled to the “the least” than the unborn?

Our Adventist Church claims to be pro-life, and our “Guidelines on Abortion” state that the church does not condone abortions on demand, yet the church did permit several Adventist hospitals to offer elective abortions to their patients. Some of those hospitals were Castle Memorial [CMH] Hospital and Washington Adventist Hospital.

Nobody I know is dying as a direct result of teaching evolution, but over 50 million unborn human beings did perish as a result of the legalization of abortion, and the Adventist Church did lead in the slaughter of the innocent. Our CMH was allowed to perform abortions on demand back in 1970—three years before this genocide became legal in the U.S. mainland.

We need a revival. We need to repent of this evil deed and sever our connection with any Adventist hospital unwilling to return to a true pro-life position on abortion. Our Adventist pioneers did label abortion as plain murder and a direct violation of the Sixth Commandment. We have altered the true and clear meaning of said injunction against the shedding of innocent blood.

[Nic Samojluk]

Alchemy wrote:

“Can God's Remnant Church fail? Absolutely, and it seems it has been on that road for decades now.

Can God's Remnant Message fail? Never! It upholds all Ten Commandments even if the church fails to do so.”

*********

True, indeed! There will always be a Remnant that will remain firm to the worship of God and the keeping of All Ten of God’s Commandments. Right now, the North American Adventist Church is keeping Nine of the Ten. The Sixth one has been watered down beyond recognition.

A woman faced with an unwanted pregnancy can claim that her mental health is being affected—she can’t sleep and is terribly worried about her lifestyle—and bingo, another innocent baby is doomed to death. Rome did alter the original meaning of the Fourth Commandment, and we did the same to the Sixth One. We need to repent of this!

[Nic Samojluk]

Gerry Cabalo wrote:

“I am pro-life, Nic, but forcing people to do something against their wishes especially victims of rape and incest is where I part with you. You add insult to the injury by making victims of rape and incest carry their pregnancy against their wishes.”

*********

The Adventist Church has no power to force anyone to choose either life or death for her unborn child. That power belongs to the government. Nevertheless, the church is required to admonish its members against the violation of God’s Commandments.

If the church does refuse to teach morality and begins to teach that sinful behavior is acceptable in the eyes of God, then what do we need the church for? If the church refuses to preach the need for repentance and confession, then its existence becomes irrelevant and counterproductive.

One of my pro-life friends one day asked our former pastor how come he never preached against the sin of abortion, and this is what he answered: “If I did that, some of our members would be offended.” Would John the Baptist have given such an answer to his followers? Why was his head chopped off? And why was Jesus Christ crucified? Was this because they preached a watered down Gospel?

It is the government’s duty and prerogative to protect the lives of those living within its jurisdiction regardless of their size and place of residence. Right now we have a double standard. If the pregnant woman wants the baby and someone kills the baby this is considered to be a crime; but if the woman doesn’t want the unborn baby, the one who kills the baby has committed no crime.

If someone steals one’s personal possession—a car for example—the government places the guilty in jail. At the same time, if a person steals the life of an unborn baby, no crime has been committed. Is human life that cheap? A stolen car can be replaced, but the loss of a human life is irreplaceable. Abortion is an irreversible act.

If someone steals your bank account, you report this to the police. An innocent unborn baby is butchered and nobody moves a finger. We need to remember what a former president of the North American division gave as a reason for the church involvement in the lucrative business of abortion: “There is too much hunger and too many people in the world.”

On another occasion the same Adventist leader stated the following in response to the question of abortion: “If we do not try to profit from this business, others will.” The blood of the innocents has stained our hands and we need to repent of this evil in order to receive forgiveness and restatement as God’s Remnant on earth.

[Nic Samojluk]

Dr. Waite wrote:

“In reference to Christ, what does it mean to be "begotten"?”

“… "begotten" means born”

*********

The term “begotten” has more than a single connotation. It also means preeminent. Jesus Christ position in the universe is above everybody else except that of God the Father.

[Nic Samojluk]

Gibs wrote:

“When truth is mixed with error it is no longer truth. The best lie you know is 99% truth.

God has always had a true church on earth and it is those who follow Him and Him only. You might say that it is to man the invisible church. The true church must come out of the apostate that's for sure. Read this little Quote, EGW,

"Among the leading causes that had led to the separation of the true church from Rome, was the hatred of the latter toward the Bible Sabbath. As foretold by prophecy, the papal power cast down the truth to the ground. The law of God was trampled in the dust, while the traditions and customs of men were exalted".

*********

Yes! Now apply this to the Sixth Commandment and we get the pro-life position on abortion. The Sabbath is sacred, and so is human life. Jesus said: “The Sabbath was made for man and not men for the Sabbath.”

No one is loosing his/her life for worshipping the Lord on the wrong day of the week; nevertheless, 50 million human beings have perished since the U.S. Supreme Court legalized the violation of God’s Law.

And let’s not forget that we Adventist did lead in the legalization of this genocide. Our Adventist hospital in Hawaii began to offer abortions on demand three years before abortion became legal in the mainland. This was done with the full knowledge of the Adventist leadership.

[Gibs]

Nic,

I sure am with you on the abortion issue, which is a strong omen of something is deadly wrong and each needs to deal with it, we can't be neutral.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

The question is asked, "Will the church fail?" There will be and are many signs that one could conclude that the church is about to fall, abortion is only one. But we have this assurance on the fate of the organized, official, visible church, the single object of God's supreme affection:

"The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out--the chaff separated from the precious wheat."

Manuscript Releases, Volume 12, 324

Those who are preaching the church will fail, or HAS already fallen, will be among the chaff separated out in the shaking. Those would run ahead of the Lord and separate themselves from God's true church on earth by establishing "off shoots" and "home churches" (and removing their membership in that process) are in apostasy. They have ALREADY been sifted out! The church is better off without them.

[Nic Samojluk]

Gibs wrote:

“Nic,

I sure am with you on the abortion issue, which is a strong omen of something is deadly wrong and each needs to deal with it, we can't be neutral.”

*********

Gibs,

Yes, and it is our duty to sound the alarm. The Lord is merciful and forgiving, but repentance and confession must precede forgiveness.

Our “Guidelines on Abortion” clearly state that abortions on demand do not have the approval of the church; nevertheless, our leaders did allow our hospital in Hawaii to offer elective abortions on demand back in 1970, and this is documented in the pages of our magazines and now in the book I recently published on this topic.

This is serious, because it means that we led in the legalization of abortion. The church also paved the way for this erroneous practice condemned in the Bible to spread to at least five Adventist hospitals.

Isn’t this what Pilate and King David did? They pretended to wash their hands from a crime they did allow to take place.

There are sins of commission and sins of omission. Let’s pray for a revival and reformation to take place which will include the proper respect for human life.

[Gibs]

Can the Remnant church fail or fall?

This all depends on what you see the Remnant Church to be. The remnant is a piece the same as the first and of the same material. Church was established by Jesus Christ on Himself, the Rock that the gates of hell would not prevail against.

Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

"Church" is ekklesia and means "the called out ones". Then we have the continual call,

Re 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

That remnant stay the same as the first, they follow only Him and are the overcomers of the world and sin. Then they are continually coming out of the false teaching of the world and so have always been up through time the "come outers" of the false teachings, occult and all.

No the Remnant don't fail or fall, the gates of hell will not prevail against them as Christ is their Head and He is their strength and stay. He is in them and they are in Him. They overcome all and walk as He walked.

Percentage wise for sure the remnant piece is smaller than the first. For sure though,

Mt 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

What is your definition of the remnant church today, right now, Gibs?

[Guest]

No the Remnant don't fail or fall, the gates of hell will not prevail against them as Christ is their Head and He is their strength and stay. He is in them and they are in Him. They overcome all and walk as He walked.

Exactly! Also, it's an individual thing as much as it is a group thing. If someone doesn't know God as an individual, then they will never be part of the group. (remnant) Even if their name IS on the church roll.