Vieth and conspiracy theories

[Bravus]

Besides, I wouldn't expect Veith to go over well on this forum. In many respects this in scoffers central.

Trans: there are still at least a few people around here with some grounding in reality.

[Gerr]

Sometimes God DOES raise up evil men to bring about His purpose.

LHC:Did God bring the Assyrians against the Israelites because they needed the correction?

If God does raise up evil people to rule, then HE is to be blamed for all the mess/mayhem/suffering they cause.

Check it out, the Bible often portrays God as doing what He in fact ALLOWS.

[John317]

Check it out, the Bible often portrays God as doing what He in fact ALLOWS.

I agree. God allows Satan to raise up evil men such as Hitler, Stalin, and Mao. It wasn't God who brought them into power.

[ClubV12]

As He allowed Satan to test and try Job. Just another of many examples of the Great Controversy being played out for all the world to see. The Lord, being no respecter of persons, allows the wicked and the Saints to suffer the impact of sin, individually or as a group or Nation.

For the Saints, a time to draw closer to Jesus, a precious time of understanding His love and purifying their soul. For the wicked, they will only harden their heart and their unbelief will increase.

A bump in the road for some, a road block for others.

[Neil D]

As He allowed Satan to test and try Job. Just another of many examples of the Great Controversy being played out for all the world to see. The Lord, being no respecter of persons, allows the wicked and the Saints to suffer the impact of sin, individually or as a group or Nation..

James 1:16-18

New International Version (NIV)

16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters. 17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. 18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.

I've given up on trying to figure out what God in heaven is doing here on Earth...The reason is that man's will does reign supreme here also...and God allows that to happen...Now, to say that God is testing us, well, to my mind, that puts God's character in jeopardy...A God who becomes finicky and allows evil things just to "test our characters" says too much wrong about Him....

[ClubV12]

The ENTIRE purpose of the Great Controversy is to allow this world, the unfallen angels and all the other created intellegence's of the Universe to see for themselves the outcome of "sin". Which is Satans version of a Government in opposition to God's Government. God is the one on trial, not us. The prosecutor is Satan, who through the fall of man, has taken this planet and claimed it as his own. To do with as he will, to run his Government his way. Because Adam and Eve accepted Satans dominion over this planet, what were Gods options? Destroy it and start over? But that would violate His most basic law, "free will". God does not need nor want a relationship with "robots", only those who choose to be with Him from free will, that stands above all else.

If Satan were allowed complete control of this planet it would have been destroyed by now. God holds back the winds of strife, as He did with Job. Allowing Satans Government and abuse to only go so far. He could "torture" Job, but he could not take his life. That was the limit God placed on Satan in the case of Job. Soon the heavenly angels holding back the winds of strife will withdraw, allowing Satan more and more control over the earth. The results will be devastation and billions maimed, left suffering, dieing and dead.

Satan loves to see the poor soldiers mowed down like grass in times of battle. If he were allowed full sway the planet would be in a continual state of war fare.

This whole scenario isn't about "us" or "me", it's about the vindication of the character of God. And when these evil and ugly things happen by the hand of the evil one, Satan, he points to God and places the blame on Him!! Satan is a master of deception and many many people fall for it, that God is able to stop this nightmare and yet He allows it to continue. Yes, He does allow it, within limits to not utterly destroy mankind or Gods people. It is the only way that all the Universe can see the results and choose for themselves whom they would serve. A Government of God, with laws of love, or a Government opposed to God with all it's ugly laws.

[Neil D]

This whole scenario isn't about "us" or "me", it's about the vindication of the character of God. And when these evil and ugly things happen by the hand of the evil one, Satan, he points to God and places the blame on Him!! Satan is a master of deception and many many people fall for it, that God is able to stop this nightmare and yet He allows it to continue. Yes, He does allow it, within limits to not utterly destroy mankind or Gods people. It is the only way that all the Universe can see the results and choose for themselves whom they would serve. A Government of God, with laws of love, or a Government opposed to God with all it's ugly laws.

Yes, that is a good place to start....God's character...His goverment.....

...and we agree that it's a good government..right?

but what is God's ' good government'?

does it include a woman preaching? or teaching a man? or perhaps it's limiting a woman to not teach a man?

Does this goverment of God reflect upon God Himself? It appears, according to your word, that it does....

I know, I am borrowing one controversy from one thread and bringing it here...and this is considered rude internet ettiquet... my appologies...

But the principle is clear, it appears to me...that God's goverment seems to be a reflection of Him...but when the principles of God's goverment is applied to the individual, there are things that tend to get rather muddled and messy when applied to all....

What say you? Does God's goverment reflect upon God's character or not?

[ClubV12]

I say,,,,

God's government is the essence of His character revealed in words and principles we humans can understand. He doesn't lie, covet, kill, steal, etc. His law is who He is! We first apply the 10 commandments.

THEN God gave Moses another set of "laws", the laws of Moses. The purpose was to expand on the understanding of the 10. IF they were fully understood by themselves, there would be no need for a prophet to expand, interpret, write detailed explanations and show practical applictions of the ten. So that the people could apply the ten correctly. The fact is, we can't properly understand the depth of the ten and all that they encompass. Then, or now. Which is why God raises up prophets from time to time to help us understand.

We have extensive guidelines and counsel from a modern prophet for our time, Sister White. But God has not revealed every little detail of everything because there is a wide variance in circumstances for this or that group of people. Whats good and acceptable for one group, may not be applicable to another group. What applies to us one week may not apply next week due to different circumstances we find ourselves in. Whats good for me may not be good for you! We simply cannot apply them (the ten, the counsel) in depth across the board for the whole world. SO, we are left to study these things for ourselves. We need to use the principles presented, apply common sense and logic, mixed with prayer to find a balanced view point for our situation at any given time.

Obviously there are some fundamentals that haven't changed since the time of Moses to today. The Sabbath for instance, the same for Adam as for us. Certain fundamental principles apply, after that, let each man be convinced in his own heart.

I think it would be a mistake for the GC or the Unions to declare and set a "law" that would impact a large group of people that might not fit the decision. I think it needs to made on a more local basis, perhaps a Conference level, but even that can be problematic. After that, the Union, or the GC, will have to make a decision whether or not to accept that LOCAL decision without broadly applying it to everyone.

Like the Sabbath, there are some fundamentals that apply to the entire global church and thats not a problem.

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Check it out, the Bible often portrays God as doing what He in fact ALLOWS.

I agree. God allows Satan to raise up evil men such as Hitler, Stalin, and Mao. It wasn't God who brought them into power.

When God's children misbehave purposefully, indicating they have no interest in the Holy Spirit being their Guide, they are defenseless against the enemy of souls. The only option remaining for God's desire to be fulfilled in the lives of His children is that they suffer the consequences of their own choices until they can see clearly it is God's presence obtained, as obedience is practiced, that assures the enemy will not be able to destroy those who trust in the principles of Heaven.

God blesses!

[John317]

...until they can see clearly it is God's presence obtained, as obedience is practiced, that assures the enemy will not be able to destroy those who trust in the principles of Heaven.

When you speak of "not be able to destroy," I assume you mean that the enemy can't destroy their souls, because the enemy does destroy the bodies of many of God's faithful people.

[John317]

...I've given up on trying to figure out what God in heaven is doing here on Earth...The reason is that man's will does reign supreme here also...and God allows that to happen...Now, to say that God is testing us, well, to my mind, that puts God's character in jeopardy...A God who becomes finicky and allows evil things just to "test our characters" says too much wrong about Him....

Do you believe God has revealed Himself to humanity in any way? Does the Bible help us know anything about God?

[John317]

Trans: there are still at least a few people around here with some grounding in reality.

Yes, at least a few.

What is the ground of reality?

[John317]

... that is a good place to start....God's character...His goverment.....

...and we agree that it's a good government..right?

but what is God's ' good government'?

God's government has a constitution: the Ten Commandments.

All citizens in God's government will love to obey His laws.

Originally Posted By: hamilton-beach

does it include a woman preaching? or teaching a man? or perhaps it's limiting a woman to not teach a man?

Does this goverment of God reflect upon God Himself?

Yes, God's government and His laws do certainly reflect upon God Himself.

Do you believe the following:

Quote:

Eve was told of the sorrow and pain that must henceforth be her portion. And the Lord said, "Thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." In the creation God had made her the equal of Adam. Had they remained obedient to God--in harmony with His great law of love--they would ever have been in harmony with each other; but sin had brought discord, and now their union could be maintained and harmony preserved only by submission on the part of the one or the other. Eve had been the first in transgression; and she had fallen into temptation by separating from her companion, contrary to the divine direction. It was by her solicitation that Adam sinned, and she was now placed [by God] in subjection to her husband. Had the principles joined in the law of God been cherished by the fallen race, this sentence, though growing out of the results of sin, would have proved a blessing to them; but man's abuse of the supremacy thus given him has too often rendered the lot of woman very bitter and made her life a burden. {PP 58, 59}

Eve had been perfectly happy by her husband's side in her Eden home; but, like restless modern Eves, she was flattered with the hope of entering a higher sphere than that which God had assigned her. In attempting to rise above her original position, she fell far below it. A similar result will be reached by all who are unwilling to take up cheerfully their life duties in accordance with God's plan. In their efforts to reach positions for which He has not fitted them, many are leaving vacant the place where they might be a blessing. In their desire for a higher sphere, many have sacrificed true womanly dignity and nobility of character, and have left undone the very work that Heaven appointed them. {PP 59.1}

Question: What does the above say is God's plan? Are we willing to submit ourselves to God and obey His plan?

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

What say you? Does God's goverment reflect upon God's character or not?

The government of God on this earth is seen only in those who pursue consistently the principles of heaven, they who invite Jesus to do in and through them, that which they could not do without His presence and power. The antithesis is the power of satan, which often seems to rule without restraint, all the while suggesting it is God Who is at fault.

For those who have invited Jesus into their life, not only to protect them but also to give them freewill of self control, the character of God is revealed. The supreme act of God to give all freewill, reveals His patience under the most trying circumstances. It is then by faith, we who are his own can still recognize that God is love, according to His Word.

At present I am responsible for one who hurts so terribly, their daily prayer is for God not to wake them in the morning if perchance they can catch some sleep before morning light. I have been asked to help them end it all, in whatever way I might be able. The only reason I refuse is because I believe God's love is of greater capacity to bring out of what appears to be a total lack of mercy, something greater beyond which this finite individual cannot fathom.

Even Samson was given the strength, by God, to be allowed to bring his own death about, albeit bringing glory to God by the death of many enemies of the gospel.

Do I understand it all? Probably as much as Abraham understood God when asked to sacrifice Isaac. The question I ask myself is, do I trust God more than my own wisdom, or will I bend God's express commands so He will be made over into man's image?

"There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death."Proverbs 14:12 NKJV

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: LifeHiscost

...until they can see clearly it is God's presence obtained, as obedience is practiced, that assures the enemy will not be able to destroy those who trust in the principles of Heaven.

When you speak of "not be able to destroy," I assume you mean that the enemy can't destroy their souls, because the enemy does destroy the bodies of many of God's faithful people.

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."Matthew 10:28 NKJV

God blesses!

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: Stan Jensen

This is a good read.

I am pretty sure that when we all get to heaven we will find out that there were no conspiracies on earth.

[olger]

:)

[Guest]

[ClubV12]

I'm not one to entertain conspiracy theories, but LHC sure makes a strong case for the first one happening in heaven. :)

[Overaged]

I'm 80 years old and I know that I am a short timer and am just as sure we ALL are now. Jesus will come as soon as this time of trouble we are starting in now is over.

Bro. Gibs.

hey; you should be describing yourself as 80 years young, not 80 years old! My belated Granny was 92 years old and she would go to a nursing home to visit younger friends in their 70s or 80s and then say to me: "I don't want to live with all those "old people.""

But you are right. We are entering a time of trouble; but we can look forward to Jesus coming again, and to meeting Him in all His glory.

[Fausto]

All in all, Veith is trying to make us all aware of the extent of the grand conspiracy out there in the world, basically he calls it "total onslaught" and that is what it is!

Every single aspect of our lives is being controlled by something behind the scenes, without wanting to go too deep, the media is controlled, our food is too, religion...well...unless you have not yet been confronted with some wild theories even within our beloved church, education, finances and economies, weather (think of the CO2 forums, and the global warming.

He's done is research! He never quotes himself, he just simply reads what is already out there.

The writer of the article posted by Stan is not seeing the full picture, I mean neither the Jesuits nor the Illuminati existed when the bible was written for crying out loud!

These were highly sophisticated new weapons of Satan to add after initial plans did not work out!

[LifeHiscost]

Every single aspect of our lives is being controlled by something behind the scenes, without wanting to go too deep, the media is controlled, our food is too, religion...well...unless you have not yet been confronted with some wild theories even within our beloved church, education, finances and economies, weather (think of the CO2 forums, and the global warming.

To prove that all one has to do is follow the money.

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

Ok - well then ... maybe I was completely wrong on that one.

But you do have a leg up on the gift of humility. Something of which I could use more.

God blesses!