"Real Adventists"

[miz3]

I don't think SDA really know what it actually means to be "the real SDA".

This is why the discussion seems to float into know where.

I do know many SDA who think being SDA is what they are and if you don't agree with them 100% they are sure that despite your claims you are not a SDA.

[John317]

Can anyone tell me what the value of this continuing topic is? It keeps coming up over and over.

Yes, it's an attempt to gain understanding of what it means to be a Seventh-day Adventist.

Are you a Seventh-day Adventist, and if so, why do you identify yourself as such?

[John317]

You are demonstrating the need of the conversation.

What do you believe a Seventh-day Adventist is?

[John317]

Does the Catholic Church know what a Catholic is?

Does the Church of the Latter Day Saints know what a Mormon is?

Does the Seventh-day Adventist Church know what an SDA is?

[John317]

I don't think SDA really know what it actually means to be "the real SDA".

I wonder who does know, then, if not SDAs. Do non-SDAs know better?

Do you think the SDA World Church has any idea?

I have a book published by the SDA Church called, What Is A Seventh-Day Adventist? Another one is called, Your Seventh-day Adventist Friends.

Do you think these books might be helpful in knowing what it means to be SDA?

[John317]

Yes John317, I am a REAL Adventist, but not at all like you--so the opinions here must be a dime a dozen.

But is the definition of a REAL Adventist dependent merely on people's personal opinion?

CAn you tell what makes you a real Seventh-day Adventist?

Were Ellen G. White or J.N. Andrews REAL Seventh-day Adventists? Please explain your answer.

[Neil D]

I wonder....would the thief on the cross with Christ be considered a "real Adventist"?

Would a "real Adventist" be one who considered himself God's friend?

Jesus was quite condemnatory of religious people. Would they be considered 'real adventists"?

I can tell you what a real adventist is, but you have to be able to answer the above questions....

[John317]

I wonder....would the thief on the cross with Christ be considered a "real Adventist"?

No. He was a true believer in the Messiah and he was genuinely repentive of his sins, but that doesn't itself make someone a Seventh-day Adventist.

All real Christians are not REAL Seventh-day Adventists.

Originally Posted By: hamilton-beach

Would a "real Adventist" be one who considered himself God's friend?

Not necessarily. There are many believers in Christ who consider themselves God's friend but yet are not Seventh-day Adventists. For instance, many Roman Catholics consider themselves God's friend but you wouldn't say they are also REAL Seventh-day Adventists, would you?

Originally Posted By: hamilton-beach

Jesus was quite condemnatory of religious people. Would they be considered 'real adventists"?

I would agree that Jesus was quite condemnatory of SOME or MANY religious people, but certainly not all. I would say that Christ's disciples were religious in the sense of being concerned with religion and doing God's will. Christ's genuine followers were certainly "real Adventists" in that day-- since they kept the Sabbath and looked for the coming of the Messiah.

Rev. 3: 14-22 shows that Jesus has some very sad things to say about REAL Adventists. He is not condemning them but He is saying that they need to make some big changes in their lives. Jesus is saying that if they don't make those changes, they will be condemned.

Originally Posted By: hamilton-beach

I can tell you what a real adventist is, but you have to be able to answer the above questions....

OK, please explain what a real Adventist is.

Can you begin by telling whether you yourself are (or were?) a real Adventist?

[John317]

I don't think SDA really know what it actually means to be "the real SDA".

This is why the discussion seems to float into know where.

The reason the discussions seem to float into nowhere is that people stop talking and communicating with each other. They stop listening and stop expressing their true thoughts on the topic. There can be many reasons for this.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

I don't think SDA really know what it actually means to be "the real SDA".

I wonder who does know, then, if not SDAs. Do non-SDAs know better?

Do you think the SDA World Church has any idea?

I have a book published by the SDA Church called, What Is A Seventh-Day Adventist? Another one is called, Your Seventh-day Adventist Friends.

Do you think these books might be helpful in knowing what it means to be SDA?

1. I don't think non SDA know better.

2. I think some at the "World Headquarters" have ideas but the problem is how to make such things stick without affecting the numbers.

3. These books won't help either because they are the opinions of only a few.

4. If SDA actually knew who they really are we would not have this thread.

[Tom Wetmore]

In the end the question of this thread leads to division and not unity.

For some reason the quote of Ivy Baker Priest seems to fit, "I'm often wrong, but never in doubt."

There is the almost obsessive quest for certainty that forces out of the club those who disrupt certainty because they see things differently and dare to ask questions.

Many of the splinter groups from Adventism are certain they are the "real Adventists". And many of the most strident factions within Adventism are certain they are the "real Adventists".

More broadly the same dogmatic quest for certainty has divided Christianity as groups split off and form their own group certain they are absolutely right that they are the "real Christians".

The pride of certainty fights any effort to find unity on common ground. It is as if division is a virtue.

[Kevin H]

Does the Catholic Church know what a Catholic is?

Does the Church of the Latter Day Saints know what a Mormon is?

Does the Seventh-day Adventist Church know what an SDA is?

Catholics (although American Catholics are a bit different from other Catholics) and Mormons are those who have accepted to follow what these churches say to believe.

Seventh-day Adventism on the other hand was developed by people who were kicked out of their churches because they did not want to go along with what the church told them to do, or to just follow the creeds. They agreed upon a few pillar topics, but wanted a fairly loose confedricy of liberals, moderates and conservative as as long as you accepted the pillars and were not fanatical, there was room for you.

Sadly too many of us want to have a king like all the others, or rather a creed like all the others, and we have arguments over which creed to have. The views of the Historic Adventists? The views of the Adventist Theological Center? A more Evangical neo Lutheran slant? Too often we find that Adventist are people who have a nurotic need to prove to the world that we are good Baptists.

For me what I find is important to me and "Real Adventist" for me is Mrs. White's philosophy of the Great Cointroversy which consists of the three roles of the Trinity, how their character is reflected in the law of self sacrificing love, how they are attacked by the 3 deceptions of Satan, How these were pressent throughtout the Bible, especially in the life, death and resurection of Jesus, and how the 3 angel's message ties things together. And finally dealth with in the method in how God destroys the lost. We should be very much involved with the study of archaeology and the history and cultural of the Bible. The word and literary studies of the Society of Biblical literature. We need to keep up with Biblical Studies, and maintain a moderate mindset to the findings. I see things like the so called "Hisstoric Adventists" and so called "Evangelical Adventists" as issues Satan is trying to occupie our minds with to get us away from the message, two focused on two different traditions and not enough keeping up with modern Bible Study.

[Gibs]

In the end the question of this thread leads to division and not unity.

For some reason the quote of Ivy Baker Priest seems to fit, "I'm often wrong, but never in doubt."

There is the almost obsessive quest for certainty that forces out of the club those who disrupt certainty because they see things differently and dare to ask questions.

Many of the splinter groups from Adventism are certain they are the "real Adventists". And many of the most strident factions within Adventism are certain they are the "real Adventists".

More broadly the same dogmatic quest for certainty has divided Christianity as groups split off and form their own group certain they are absolutely right that they are the "real Christians".

The pride of certainty fights any effort to find unity on common ground. It is as if division is a virtue.

Tom maybe it depends on what one wants unity in. I've read through the comment here and the question to me in one or more "are you a SDA?" I would have to answer yes to that. But no I'm not a member of the denomination so I am not a denominational SDA. Do I have to be a denominational SDA to be saved? No.

Then how am I a SDA? I keep the Seventh day, the Sabbath, and I know that Christ is very, very soon to come again and gather the living and those who sleep to be with Him in Heaven for a thousand years. I hold EGW in high esteem but not on the level with the Bible, the KJV, the others are books. EGW's writings are you best Bible commentary to be found among men.

Why aren't you a denominational SDA then? Because she, the SDA denomination has gone into so many apostasies she won't repent of. There is a few within her that desparatley want to see things righted. But the numbers of them have fallen off so badly now there is not a chance.

It has been said that the only denomination with more Masons in the leadership is Mormonism. If that is the case a thorough house cleaning is needed. She is a ship that seems to have lost her compass and is sailing in the seas of corruption and not finding the true way home. She still is of Sabbath keeping but her theology is now close to what is found in all the other denominations, not a whole lot of differece.

Saved in sin theology is the most prolific one. He isn't going to make any sinless, we must take the power of His indwelling and be overcomers here and now or forget it.

Enough said for now.

[ClubV12]

Gibs with all due heart felt respect and sadness I must conclude on your above testimony, your NOT a Seventh-day Adventist. What you are, is an off shoot. You PROFESS to be a Seventh-day Adventist but you have withdrawn your support from the ONE church upon whom God bestows His supreme affection. By your actions you are calling others out of God's church to do the same.

I have no doubt you are very sincere,,,, and sincerely mistaken.

One of the things that rob us of a correct and balanced understanding of doctrine is looking to people. Looking to the "bad" things the Pastor or the people do. Another robber of salvation is rumor mongering, gossip and back biting. Talking about how "bad" the Pastor and the people are. That happens when you take your eyes off Jesus, it is followed by a strong delusion and you don't even know it happened.

People are in apostasy, NOT Gods church. To abandon God's church is "real" apostasy.

[fccool]

I think the better question would be:

Is Seventh Day Adventism a Christian denomination?

[CoAspen]

If you don't like the discussion, at least have the courtesy to let those who like it carry it on. Neither you nor I have the right to go on the various forums and tell people to stop talking about something.

What Tom said...in more words...I just like short and to the point!!

Whats courteous about telling people if they are SDA or not or defining them?

[John317]

I have a book published by the SDA Church called, What Is A Seventh-Day Adventist? Another one is called, Your Seventh-day Adventist Friends.

Do you think these books might be helpful in knowing what it means to be SDA?

Originally Posted By: miz3

These books won't help either because they are the opinions of only a few.

You appear to be saying that the Seventh-day Adventist Church itself does not know what a Seventh-day Adventist is. Is this true?

Were Ellen White, James White, Joseph Bates, and J.N. Andrews real Seventh-day Adventists?

If those books are unreliable, where can a person turn to find out what a real Seventh-day Adventist is?

Do you know of a single book or publication that anyone can read in order to find out what it means to be a Seventh-day Adventist?

You say that these books I've mentioned aren't helpful because they are only the opinions of a few people. But is this correct? Such books are not printed by the church publishing companies without many people in the church being consulted and contributing to them.

[ClubV12]

Whats courteous about someone telling me they have a purple heart and never even served in the military?

There is nothing wrong with basic honesty. If you ARE a Seventh-day Adventist, whats the problem in just saying so? Shout it from the roof tops! Why hide your light under a bush? Are you ashamed to admit it?

I'm a real Seventh-day Adventist, by any definition of the term. That doesn't gaurentee salvation, it doesn't mean everyone has to be one to find their way in the kingdom. The very term itself, Seventh-day Adventist, is a standing rebuke to Protestant churches, and I'm OK with that. To hide your position is to join them.

[John317]

I think the better question would be:

Is Seventh Day Adventism a Christian denomination?

OK, a good question.

What do you think the answer is?

What does it mean to be a Christian?

Are you a Christian and a Seventh-day Adventist? Or do you think it's impossible to be both?

[John317]

[Gibs]

Gibs with all due heart felt respect and sadness I must conclude on your above testimony, your NOT a Seventh-day Adventist. What you are, is an off shoot. You PROFESS to be a Seventh-day Adventist but you have withdrawn your support from the ONE church upon whom God bestows His supreme affection. By your actions you are calling others out of God's church to do the same.

I have no doubt you are very sincere,,,, and sincerely mistaken.

One of the things that rob us of a correct and balanced understanding of doctrine is looking to people. Looking to the "bad" things the Pastor or the people do. Another robber of salvation is rumor mongering, gossip and back biting. Talking about how "bad" the Pastor and the people are. That happens when you take your eyes off Jesus, it is followed by a strong delusion and you don't even know it happened.

People are in apostasy, NOT Gods church. To abandon God's church is "real" apostasy.

You may think I'm pulling people out of the true church and that is your right to have your opinion. I do not look to people is why I come from where I do, I come from His true Word of truth and none can go wrong there. What I'm telling all who will hear, too much error has come in that most are fighting to keep, not put away. The Word proves this.

While I agree God's TRUE church is not in apostasy but one in error is. What is the church is the question. It is where two or three are gathered together in His name and He is present in the midst. Now He will not be there if error is being taught. Here is your answer for that.

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Now you can see where I am coming from. Do I not have that right. You bet I do but many want me shut up but they did Jesus before me also and many, many in between. Im for and with the truth and nothing else, show me the truth and I want it, I'll take it up right quick.

What makes up a church is true followers of Him and His Word.

Let's follow Him and His Word and quite believing lies from liars.

[Overaged]

Why aren't you a denominational SDA then? Because she, the SDA denomination has gone into so many apostasies she won't repent of. There is a few within her that desparatley want to see things righted. But the numbers of them have fallen off so badly now there is not a chance.

Well gibs, one thing is for sure. You are concerned about what the church represents and how they do it. That concern is good, unless we use it to turn against the Church; for it is as you said, there will always be those who do not wish to uphold it's ideals. But there will always be those who do and who live for Jesus, and last time i checked the new testament; Jesus said to let the wheat grow up with the tares; and that in the end; it will be Jesus who pulls out the tares from the field. Currently, the fields are teeming with a bountiful harvest for the kingdom. We can all choose to help or to hinder in the harvest.

[Overaged]

Outraged and Gail brought up that thought over there in the "shout" box and today I would be interested in what different ones see as a "real Adventists" I'm serious. I see some as real serious real Adventists and probably those are not liberal, then I see some very serious Real Adventists that are liberal.

What makes them all real adventists then is the fact they have taken up the Sabbath truth and can at least agree on that. Well I suppose it is from where we stand then on which is Real. Maybe Real isn' the word we want to use to really say what we mean.

What are your thoughts? Bro. Gibs.

Hey! My name isn't "outraged;" it's "Overaged." LOL, although sometimes my name could be that.

[John317]

...

If SDA actually knew who they really are we would not have this thread.

That would only be true if ClubAdventist is represenative of the SDA Church. I don't believe it is. There are many people posting on ClubAdventist who aren't SDA, others who are anti-SDA, and still others who aren't Christians. With that combination of beliefs represented on the threads, it's obvious that the thread is not an accurate portrayal, or reflection, of the Seventh-day Adventist Church.

[ClubV12]

"You may think I'm pulling people out of the true church..."

I don't THINK it Gibs, I KNOW it! Your entire lifestyle, your testimony on this web site, is a calling to leave the Seventh-day Adventist church. I and many of us, have heard the rhetoric before, it comes in variations on a theme, each independant "home church" or official "off shoot" movement has a slightly different take on it, but it always the same.

It is:

The Seventh-day Adventist church is in apostasy. It is no longer God's "true church". That God's "true church" is comprised of where ever two or three "fanatics" are gathered together, THATS where the true church is. Shephards rods certainly agree with you, you have the blessing of David Koresh, many other "off shoots" applaud your miss placed devotion. The whole of these various sincere-ly mistaken groups add up to one thing, "apostasy".

God DOES have a church on earth, the Seventh-day Adventist church and organization headed up by the General Conference. The same one you despise and talk evil off. As wayward and pitiful as Adventists may be, in yours or anybody elses eyes, they remain, God's chosen people. You are not a member of this group, in fact or in spirit. It is immoral and unethical to claim the title Seventh-day Adventist in your current position, one of direct opposition and fighting against the church. Ellen White would not approve, and yet I'm sure you could present many quotes of hers that seem to support your position. So did Dr. Kellogg, but he is absolutely wrong and he to left the church. Dr. Kellogg would be proud of your position. Please find another term to describe your beliefs so "real Adventists" will NOT be confused.

Come home Gibs, it's not to late. Live your life as the prophet has instructed, limit your contact with the church, but don't abandon your Brothers and Sisters and deny them the light. Be a witness even in the midst of error, God will give you the courage, if you let Him.