Why I am a former SDA

[Twilight II]

There is a very sublte "holier than thou" spirit walking around in Adventist circles.

Some imagine that if they "love" error, it makes them some type of "spiritual" giant.

They imagine that if they "approve" sinners along with their "sin", they have arrived at some "spiritual" high place.

They then judge anyone not adopting their non-biblical mindset as unloving and unaccepting.

They often do not know how to cope with the part of Gods character that reproves, punishes and warns.

But they can be quite smug they have reached some place of "love".

It is not really love, it is ecumenism disguised as love.

"Holier than thou" comes in many packages it seems...

[Stan]

The confusion between baptism into Christ and baptism into the SDA church is another huge problem.

People are generally baptized, as a public declaration that they recognize the death burial and resurrection of Christ, and like a graduation, marriage or death, they have a celebration with their friends and that there has been a significant difference in the life. I view it as a right of passage. Many would not use that term. (I remain ok if others want to be wrong )

Membership in a Church happens afterwards, it is the track to help fulfill the Biblical commission of Christ to take the Good News into the world.

Membership also gives you a vote on how things should be done.

No one is really baptized into the Adventist Church, although that terminology is often used.

We are voted into membership.

[Twilight II]

I'm completely happy to stand before the only competent Judge.

You cannot oppose the gospel and Jesus Christ Himself and expect to come out well in the Judgement.

Your choices, which you have expressed publically, will cause you to be lost.

The bible is plain on this.

But if you will not heed the warning, you will only have yourself to blame.

There is no blood on my hands, that is for sure.

Others here probably cannot say the same, as they refuse to warn you.

They refuse to really love you.

[Bravus]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

The confusion between baptism into Christ and baptism into the SDA church is another huge problem.

People are generally baptized, as a public declaration that they recognize the death burial and resurrection of Christ, and like a graduation, marriage or death, they have a celebration with their friends and that there has been a significant difference in the life. I view it as a right of passage. Many would not use that term. (I remain ok if others want to be wrong )

Membership in a Church happens afterwards, it is the track to help fulfill the Biblical commission of Christ to take the Good News into the world.

Membership also gives you a vote on how things should be done.

No one is really baptized into the Adventist Church, although that terminology is often used.

We are voted into membership.

I absolutely agree on all that, Stan, but if baptism into Christ is withheld unto people comply with all the membership rules of the club...? As it often is.

[John317]

What I see on this Forum tells me a lot about what we can expect from many fellow SDAs in the future.

Can we expect them to help us when we are defending the truth and standing up for the church and for church doctrines against the attacks of its enemies?

I wish the answer could be yes, but sad to say, faithful SDAs will far more likely find themselves completely alone and abandoned by former friends and church members. Ellen White says such will become our worst enemies.

[Twilight II]

The saddest indictment on many of those that have been supporting Bravus' choices is this.

I am not Bravus friend, I do not claim such.

But many of you here do claim to be his friend.

Yet it takes someone he does not know and is fundamentally opposed to his worldviews to tell him he is in trouble.

Someone it is very difficult for him to receive reproof from.

Not one of you that wants to "accept" Bravus has taken the care or time to even try to warn him of his danger.

I should not be warning him, you that claim you are his "friend" should be doing so.

Yet you are all silent, so desperate to appear friendly, that you will watch him burn to satisfy your need to appear accepting.

And you claim you "love" him?

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

[John317]

if baptism into Christ is withheld unto people comply with all the membership rules of the club...? As it often is.

Was it in your exprience?

It wasn't in mine or in the case of my wife and daughters or of anyone else I know.

[Bravus]

"Let the one who is without sin cast the first stone." - some bloke who said a lot of great stuff

[John317]

I agree, Mark.

A sad state of affairs. No wonder Christ does not come.

Where are the Daniels?

Most would crumble under the persecution that will occur before Christ returns. We are simply not ready for it. We need to pray for our church.

[M. T. Cross]

The saddest indictment on many of those that have been supporting Bravus' choices is this.

I am not Bravus friend, I do not claim such.

But many of you here do claim to be his friend.

Yet it takes someone he does not know and is fundamentally opposed to his worldviews to tell him he is in trouble.

Someone it is very difficult for him to receive reproof from.

Not one of you that wants to "accept" Bravus has taken the care or time to even try to warn him of his danger.

I should not be warning him, you that claim you are his "friend" should be doing so.

Yet you are all silent, so desperate to appear friendly, that you will watch him burn to satisfy your need to appear accepting.

And you claim you "love" him?

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

There we go with the scare tactics.

[Twilight II]

What I see on this Forum tells me a lot about what we can expect from many fellow SDAs in the future.

Can we expect them to help us when we are defending the truth and standing up for the church and for church doctrines against the attacks of its enemies?

I wish the answer could be yes, but sad to say, faithful SDAs will far more likely find themselves completely alone and abandoned by former friends and church members. Ellen White says such will become our worst enemies.

The writing is plainly on the wall.

Secularism has taken over, with its ecumenistic tendencies.

[Overaged]

The writing is plainly on the wall.

Secularism has taken over, with its ecumenistic tendencies.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

We are to warn, reprove, point out error and sin as well as love those around us.

We...we...we...we?

Quote:

Christianity is not one big "hug".

It is life and death.

Wrong and wrong! If christianity is not a 'hug' in the arms of our fellow traveler or Christ, that it is no different than any other 'religion'. Christianity is the anidote to death! So a belief in Christ/God is life not death!!

Your remarks remind me of a group of very unhappy people living in abject fear that God will 'squash' with His thumb at any time. Sad, very sad.

[Gail]

Quote:

Not one of you that wants to "accept" Bravus has taken the care or time to even try to warn him of his danger.

You don't know that. And I don't know if you have enough information to accuse people of that.

[CoAspen]

What I see on this Forum tells me a lot about what we can expect from many fellow SDAs in the future.

Can we expect them to help us when we are defending the truth and standing up for the church and for church doctrines against the attacks of its enemies?

I wish the answer could be yes, but sad to say, faithful SDAs will far more likely find themselves completely alone and abandoned by former friends and church members. Ellen White says such will become our worst enemies.

Thou protest toooooooooooo much and make toooooooo many assumptions!!!

[CoAspen]

The saddest indictment on many of those that have been supporting Bravus' choices is this.

I am not Bravus friend, I do not claim such.

But many of you here do claim to be his friend.

Yet it takes someone he does not know and is fundamentally opposed to his worldviews to tell him he is in trouble.

Someone it is very difficult for him to receive reproof from.

Not one of you that wants to "accept" Bravus has taken the care or time to even try to warn him of his danger.

I should not be warning him, you that claim you are his "friend" should be doing so.

Yet you are all silent, so desperate to appear friendly, that you will watch him burn to satisfy your need to appear accepting.

And you claim you "love" him?

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Comprehension levels seem to be very low about what Bravus hs said/posted and those who lend him a sympathetic ear understanding he, like the rest of us, are on a journey. Your pious postings do little to warn, teach or preach gospel to anyone, they 'reek' of fear. That is not the Gospel!!

[Woody]

Quote:

Yet you are all silent, so desperate to appear friendly, that you will watch him burn to satisfy your need to appear accepting.

I for one have not remained silent. I've supported his journey. Perhaps I should be supporting it more vigorously but in my mind's eye - people such as you are doing a far better job of supporting his way than I could ever hope to.

[Tom Wetmore]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

I read this thread every day and I am hit with a lot of different feelings.

Respect. I feel this when I read people like Bravus that are not scared to seek truth outside of the walls that are comfortable. You see when you have spent years in a religion - especially one like SDA - it is terrifying. You battle so hard against it...

It is understandable that you as a non-SDA would identify with Bravus leaving the SDA church.

I think we can all see how such a thing could be.

in Christ,

Bob

From a simplistic pov this attempt at mastery of the obvious might seem witty and a self-satisfying affirmation of ones pov, but it is simply incorrect in too many cases to give it any credence.

People leave the church for many reasons and very often because of differences that are quite incompatible. There are any number of ex-Adventists with whom you likely agree on certain points and topics. And as is painfully obvious there are huge conflicts amongst those here professing strongly that they are solid Adventists.

I find it difficult to understand the mentality that if someone leaves the group, we must reject everything they say. That is the nonsense of labeling that I spoke against perviously.

[ClubV12]

This idea of people being a on journey, what makes that so special?

The alcoholic is on a journey, so is a prostitute or a drug addict. Even a serial killer is on a journey.

Nominal Adventists are also on a journey, a deluded Laodecia journey that speaks of unity and love and unicorns and puppy dogs. When they hug each other they are binding themselves into bundles to be burned. All these journeys on the broad smooth path where each is comfortable and happy with their lot in this life end at the judgment throne of God.

Fear tactics? No, reality check, serious warning, it should be the beginning of wisdom, but it is folly to those who refuse to see.

Not everyone who leaves the church walks out because he didn't like the doctrine. Some are disfellowshiped, and I'm OK with that. The bible is OK with that. Paul was OK with that. If your an Adventist and your not OK with that, take it up with God, it's a sure sign you have a serious connection problem understanding basic Christian structure 101.

[ClubV12]

Tom says,

"I find it difficult to understand the mentality that if someone leaves the group, we must reject everything they say."

So if they leave and become a Buddhist we must NOT reject that theology? I don't accept evolution, Bravus does. Now you can accept evolution if you want, but why would you? Because Bravus does? Is unity so important to you that you would throw out fundamental biblical beliefs in order to find unity at any price?

Whew,,,, that IS a difficult to understand mentality that someone would be so determined to remain popular at any cost.

[Gail]

There is a difference between rejecting a person and rejecting their theological stance.

I can talk spiritual things openly with Bravus. I believe that we have a mutual respect so that we can share many things. It doesn't mean that he will buy everything I have to say, but neither do I buy into all that he says. But we can communicate.

[CoAspen]

Comprehension! Comprehension! Very important to not reading in to something posted that the reader thinks is being said. When comprhension fails, assumptions overtake!

[ClubV12]

Yup, I totally agree with that Gail. I have many friends that are not Christians. Sometimes I can't join them in all that they wish to do. They are aware of my beliefs, respect my Sabbath, we remain friends. When they ask questions, as one did recently, what will happen if he doesn't accept God. I don't lie to him, I try to be as gentle as possible but the reality is pretty grim when you get right down to it. Now others who openly scoff at God and think I'm a fool, don't allow a lot of time to reason things out. They need the truth, in a blunt manner if that is called for. When my hired help is working on my house and smoking or worse, I get pretty blunt about that. They have been warned, they have no excuse, this is not something we need to discuss again.

[Tom Wetmore]

Tom says,

"I find it difficult to understand the mentality that if someone leaves the group, we must reject everything they say."

So if they leave and become a Buddhist we must NOT reject that theology? I don't accept evolution, Bravus does. Now you can accept evolution if you want, but why would you? Because Bravus does? Is unity so important to you that you would throw out fundamental biblical beliefs in order to find unity at any price?

Whew,,,, that IS a difficult to understand mentality that someone would be so determined to remain popular at any cost.

As CoAspen said, it about an complete lack of comprehension. You and Twilight demonstrate that you simply do not understand a thing some of us have said or what Bravus has been saying all along. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zero comprehension. It seems to me that some have become wrapped so tightly in the cocoon of their own perspective that they are utterly blind and deaf to any other pov.

It makes it exceedingly difficult to carry on a rational conversation and seemingly impossible to explain to you in any way you can comprehend. We will continue to take past each other. It is pointless to continue even trying.

[ClubV12]

You simply do not understand a thing some of us have said. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zero comprehension. What is so hard to understand about the need to accept Jesus Christ as your personal Saviour?