Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Once you have mastered "agape" and taken care of your own self seeking.... Bonnie, you said "The definition of sin does not rest in your hands". Then I gave you the Bible's definition. Then you do what? Go on the attack. Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Prov 14:23 In all labor there is profit: but the talk of the lips leads only to poverty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 I said there will be agape in the life experience....I didn't say it was 100% agape. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 Bonnie, you said "The definition of sin does not rest in your hands". Then I gave you the Bible's definition. Then you do what? Go on the attack. Why? Because you give a select,partial definition. One without the other is meaningless And please,after some of what you said,you look pretty hypocritical complaining about someone going on the attack Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Prov 14:23 In all labor there is profit: but the talk of the lips leads only to poverty. That's a true statement, however, it doesn't contradict agape. It only contradicts agape is you are thinking of yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 That's a true statement, however, it doesn't contradict agape. It only contradicts agape is you are thinking of yourself. Then why not get busy and quit contradicting agape in your own life FIRST Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Because you give a select,partial definition. One without the other is meaningless There's only one type of agape. You are trying to make a hybrid between God's love and human love. Agape Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 There's only one type of agape. You are trying to make a hybrid between God's love and human love. I believe you are making a perversion out of God's love and words. jacksequeira is not my idol,guide or spiritual mentor.Thank you but I will leave reading His Word to his ardent followers Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Psa 115:14,15 The LORD shall increase you more and more, you and your children. You are blessed of the LORD who made heaven and earth. (King James 2000) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Psa 115:14,15 The LORD shall increase you more and more, you and your children. You are blessed of the LORD who made heaven and earth. (King James 2000) Again, nothing to do with Capitalism. Nothing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I believe you are making a perversion out of God's love and words. Agape is very well defined in the NT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Agape Anyway, here's some nuggets taken from the above website: Human love, at its very best (heavenly eros) is self-seeking. We are by nature egocentric and therefore everything we do and think, in and of ourselves, is polluted with self-love or selfishness. Hence man’s love is always trying to ascend, whether it be socially, politically, academically, materially, economically, or even religiously; we are all slaves to our “own way” [isaiah 53:6; Philippians 2:21]. As we saw in our last study, we are all shaped in “iniquity” (bent to self). Consequently all of us, without exception, are coming short of God’s glory or agape love [Romans 3:23]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Anyway, here's some nuggets taken from the above website: Here is a few for you. Quit constructing the argument and then condemning. No one but you has compared righteousness,grace or perfection to capitalism.No one has implied or said anything about perfection,sinless or capitalism being a way to earn salvation. Those are accusations you throw out there and then say see,here is the text. Sin Alert,Sin Alert, GUILTY. Quit taking a few passages and leaving out all the rest on a particular subject.If others had a desire to pervert scripture there are plenty of texts disagreeing with your select few. Your view of the world we live in is to me perverted and not God's plan in this sinful world. God created the marriage of one man, one woman. He did not create that with the intent of loving all as your spouse.God entrusted four sons to my husband and myself,He created the strongest bond on this earth,that between a mother and her child(I will let the men speak for themselves).We also had the privilege of raising several others.Both my husband and I enjoyed it and took great satisfaction in that.In typical self seeking it was the best time of our lives and I wish we could do it over again. SIN ALERT Not doing for all children,but doing the best for the ones in our care. My husband took very seriously the obligation for providing for our family FIRST. On the job he did his best.Did not steal from his employer for fear of competing. He also expected the best from those he employed.If not they were free to go where they didn't have to compete. Many times he has done work for free when he saw a need,SIN ALERT,he took satisfaction and enjoyment in doing that.Shame on him for "seeking a reward" I work for profit.SIN ALERT,and I enjoy it. Many times I work for free,SIN ALERT,I enjoy that and take satisfaction in doing so. Sometimes I even do things just for my own enjoyment.SIN SIN Sometimes situations come up where I feel the need to make a judgment call.If a choice between one that says give me,God says, and one doing all they can and need a little hand up there is no question which I will choose. I believe in the role the law has in our lives as well as "living under grace.SIN,SIN. As my dad says,I cannot slide into heaven on my vegeburger (capitalism) nor can I scream grace at everyone that will listen and fail to lose my salvation,just because I mouth the words. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Consequently all of us, without exception, are coming short of God’s glory or agape love [Romans 3:23]. Again,hate to break it to you,my siblings and I knew that as young children as mine did. If we were not going to come up short what did we need Christ for. Why do you keep stating the obvious as if someone is disagreeing with you on this. Maybe you should just go sit under a tree somewhere and wait for Christ to return. Those evil capitalists will probably feed you and give you a warm coat. Or better yet,instead of waiting for others to lead,show a little 'agape" get off your backside and do it. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Agape is very well defined in the NT. As is hypocrisy.Have you read that part of the NT? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Originally Posted By: Robert Agape is very well defined in the NT. As is hypocrisy.Have you read that part of the NT? I think he may have skipped over that part. It is better to look at the whole picture, than it is to take one little piece of it, and beat it to death unceasingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 I think he may have skipped over that part. It is better to look at the whole picture, than it is to take one little piece of it, and beat it to death unceasingly. This whole thing reminds me of a game we played when we were kids.Granted,not a very nice game, and one if I caught my kids at it,they would not find the consequences amusing.Kids being kids they find creative ways to fight back. We had a few,similar to Mrs Olsen on Little House on the Prarie, that were always yelling sin at others. We started playing "I Spy Sin" at their expense. When we would meet them coming into church we would very quietly say "Sin Alert". We were smart enough not to even look in their direction and could achieve a very innocent look.They knew somehow it might have something to do with them and get a little agitated but could not quite put it together.When they would go past us we would quietly sing,"When the Saints Come Marching In" which of course caused a little more agitation. Often we would have gatherings at the church on Sabbath afternoons and play bible games.SIN ALERT. Someone would call out a bible text and others would try to find it first. We would choose and call out what we considered appropriate for a few. Usually dealing with hypocrisy,false witness and such. If it was a "Mrs.Olsen" that found it first you could detect a few seconds of very uncomfortable silence. Someone finally said to my mother,"Your children seemed to be preoccupied by sin,do you think that is healthy"? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Wow, you girls were really mean. We had a second grade school teacher who was pretty hard on us. Her name was Mrs. Strang, and she was constantly yelling at me and my cousin. Things like, "you leave those girls alone!", or "You two stop fighting!", or "Stop bouncing the ball in the classroom!", or "Shut up and do your work!". You get the picture. Mrs. Strang's maiden name was actually "Strange" I'm not joking. Anyway it was nap-time this particular afternoon, and all of us 1st and 2nd graders were on the floor on our sleeping mats. Some were actually trying to sleep. Mrs. Strang had already yelled at me and my cousin 3 times, to "PIPE DOWN OVER THERE AND BE QUIET, OR ELSE!" Since we knew we would have to stop whispering for a few minutes, we started looking around for something else to do. As it turned out, we found that right beside us, was the shelf where the spray stuff that we shined our desks with, was. We began to spray the desk polish on the floor all around us in a wide arc. Eventually we forgot the last dire warning to shut up, and had evidently returned to whispering loudly. This seemed to have infuriated Mrs. Strang, only this time along with her shouts, she jumped to her feet and was running in our direction like a charging Rhino. She was a very large woman, and even though the school was built on a concrete slab, the entire building shook as she charged in our direction. All of a sudden, an unintended consequence happened. Mrs. Strang hit a patch of that spray desk polish, which was extremely slick, and her feet went out from under her all at once, straight out in front. And she fell to the floor horizontally on her backside, with feet outstretched. She came down with a mighty crash, and a thud. Nobody said a word. You could hear a pin drop, because they didn't know if she was dead or alive. I knew she was alive because I could see her eyes blinking as she stared up at the ceiling. She had only missed landing on me by about a foot or so. After she had layed there quietly for a long while, she finally helped herself up, and made her way back to her desk. She didn't yell at us anymore that day. Come to think of it, she didn't yell much at all after that. She seemed to view us in a different light. I never did figure out why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 than it is to take one little piece of it, and beat it to death unceasingly. It is repeated because some here are blind to it. Hopefully repeating it over and over will one day register in someone's brain cell, maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 it is to take one little piece of it, and beat it [agape] to death unceasingly. AGAPE is the most common word for love in the New Testament. It occurs 259 times as a verb or as a noun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the agape of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." 37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who agaped us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the agape of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the agape of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." 37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who agaped us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the agape of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Robert,could you be so kind as to spell out what this means to you.Just a few answers in your own words and how it may impact your life. Repeating the same texts over and over because you claim others are blind simply means they are blind because they don't take the same meaning you do. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Robert, Can you give me your definition of "agape" in this post fall world and how one would go about it. Or are you arguing the impossible for the sake of arguing or trying to appease your own conscience? God loves all without reservation or preference.Can I do that? Am I supposed to love all as my husband,God does? The bible tells me to Honor my parents,God does not love some parents more than others. When God said to honor my parents He did not say honor all equally,did He mean that? We may disagree but having children is a awesome responsibility that parents assume,I think I was expected to do my best for them,not my best for the whole neighborhood. How could I do my best for all and not shortchange them all? God says if you are not faithful in little things,you won't be in bigger things. Doing your best to you is self-seeking as you are sure you know everyone's motives. Capitalism is something you try to avoid,what other system is out there?Capitalism as a system to me is a sin when abused.I can only stop me from abusing it.To you to engage in that and not give all equally is a sin.How do you explain the many texts in the bible that soundly disagree with you? Please no barrage of the same texts,just what it means to you. Please don't go down the road of accusing others of confusing capitalism and righteousness. Those are accusations you brought in without one whit of comment to imply that. You want to live as the early church,just waiting and hoping to find one.If this is such a heartfelt desire on your part,why aren't you doing something about it? It is possible you know,many people do just what you have done with a issue on both sides of the fence.You could find those that would follow. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 You claim not to be under the law so obviously you are exempt.Please tell me then why you want to find those living under the law and you are trying to work your way to heaven by avoiding something. Give me some options,I made a simple statement of being able to do something for someone and I took some satisfaction in that.You immeidately found sin. What should my reaction have been? Should I have given more but grudgingly? Was God wrong when He says He loves a cheerful giver?Did you object and find sin because you didn't think it enough? Was it because I was not treating all equally that I know about? That of course would mean no one would have gotten anything. My husband painted the neighbors home free of charge to him and it actually ended up costing us. He took some personal satisfaction in doing so.SIN??? Three other houses in the neighborhood need painting,but husband did not treat them all equally"SIN?? Treating all equally no one would have gotten their home painted. Just see if you can put what you claim to believe into practical terms. Is God just waiting out there to play "gotcha" if we cannot be as He is? Please don't add your condemnations and accusations as if what you are accusing has been claimed by someone Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Capitalism as a system to me is a sin when abused. The essence of Capitalism is self-seeking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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