Keeping the Sabbath

[phkrause]

Why can't you do it every day ?

Christians should have God in there lives 7 days a week and not just 1 day. But we all have lives we live and work and do this and that. Run here and there and sometimes lose sight of God. So now when the Sabbath comes along we can just relax and come and Worship with our maker as the 4th Commandment asks of us, to show that we remember him in body and spirit.

[Woody]

Excellent pk. You put it all together in the right words. Thanks. That's it exactly.

[BibleOnly]

Originally Posted By: BibleOnly

Why can't you do it every day ?

Christians should have God in there lives 7 days a week and not just 1 day. But we all have lives we live and work and do this and that. Run here and there and sometimes lose sight of God. So now when the Sabbath comes along we can just relax and come and Worship with our maker as the 4th Commandment asks of us, to show that we remember him in body and spirit.

But, where does the Bible say a Christian is REQUIRED to do this on a certain day ? I go to church too, twice a week. Although 'the church' is the body of all saved people and not a building, the church, as we'd use the word, is necessary, that's why God invented it, so we can all encourage one another and be instructed from scripture. But, where does the Bible say that a Christian lives by the 10 commandments and not by the 'Golden Rule' that Jesus said fulfils the law ?

[Woody]

If one lives by the Golden Rule he will also be keeping the 10 Commandments. Do you have a beef with any of the other commandments? Or just the 4th?. You seem to have very legalistic wording regarding the ten commandments. We as CHristians are saved by the blood of Jesus and the fact the HE kept the commandments so that we do not have to be judged by them but rather by the spotless blood of Jesus who kept them FOR us.

But would you live the life of Jesus or would you rather live the life of the world once you accepted the blood of Jesus to save you?

The Sabbath is not there to JUDGE you. The Sabbbath is there to KEEP you a saved Christian. We all have choice and the Sabbath is there to help you maintain your love for God.

To be a Christian mean to 'follow Christ'. Christ kept the ten commandments. I will also.

[BibleOnly]

If one lives by the Golden Rule he will also be keeping the 10 Commandments. Do you have a beef with any of the other commandments? Or just the 4th?. You seem to have very legalistic wording regarding the ten commandments. We as CHristians are saved by the blood of Jesus and the fact the HE kept the commandments so that we do not have to be judged by them but rather by the spotless blood of Jesus who kept them FOR us.

But would you live the life of Jesus or would you rather live the life of the world once you accepted the blood of Jesus to save you?

The Sabbath is not there to JUDGE you. The Sabbbath is there to KEEP you a saved Christian. We all have choice and the Sabbath is there to help you maintain you love for God.

Where does the New Testament ever say that ?

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Hbr 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh [day] on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

Hbr 4:5 And in this [place] again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Hbr 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

Hbr 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Hbr 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

Hbr 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

There remains a rest for God's people. But, it's 'today', not just the Sabbath. A Christian rests in Christ every day, even as he loves his brother, instead of just not killing him or stealing from him. In these ways, I have no 'beef' with any of the 10 commandments. I just know how they were fulfilled, and what Jesus did for me.

1Cr 9:19 ¶ For though I be free from all [men], yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

1Cr 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

1Cr 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

What does this mean, if Paul obeyed all of the Old Testament law ?

Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

Jam 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

James says if you want to keep the law, you need to keep it all.

Gal 4:21 ¶ Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

Gal 4:23 But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman [was] by promise.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, [thou] barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him [that was born] after the Spirit, even so [it is] now.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Given that the 10 commandments were given at Sinai, what does this mean ?

[Gibs]

To All,

Mt 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Joh 14:15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1Jo 2:3 ¶ And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jo 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1Jo 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1Jo 2:7 ¶ Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

Ex 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Ex 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

Ex 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Ex 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[BibleOnly]

Can we agree that I know what Exodus 20 says ?

Read verse 18. I am not saying that anything has 'passed' from the law, the law has not been done away with. It has been fulfilled. Do you still have a son of Levi sacrifice animals for your sins ? Or has Jesus fulfilled the law so you don't have to ?

[phkrause]

Can we agree that I know what Exodus 20 says ?

Read verse 18. I am not saying that anything has 'passed' from the law, the law has not been done away with. It has been fulfilled. Do you still have a son of Levi sacrifice animals for your sins ? Or has Jesus fulfilled the law so you don't have to ?

I think you have the crucifiction mixed up with the 10Cs. The Jewish system of sacrificing was to show them or point them to the Messiah coming and dying for our sins. Those laws and ceremonies are done away with. The 10Cs that God gave us was his Moral Law. To me they are not the same.

[BibleOnly]

Originally Posted By: BibleOnly

Can we agree that I know what Exodus 20 says ?

Read verse 18. I am not saying that anything has 'passed' from the law, the law has not been done away with. It has been fulfilled. Do you still have a son of Levi sacrifice animals for your sins ? Or has Jesus fulfilled the law so you don't have to ?

I think you have the crucifiction mixed up with the 10Cs. The Jewish system of sacrificing was to show them or point them to the Messiah coming and dying for our sins. Those laws and ceremonies are done away with. The 10Cs that God gave us was his Moral Law. To me they are not the same.

OK, where does the Bible then explain the difference ? Where, when the whole system was changing, because of Jesus' sacrifice, does the Bible tell us that we need to keep the Sabbath in it's Old Testament form ? If we need to keep a certain day, why does Paul write:

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

and even more so:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.

Days is not in the original text, it just says 'Sabbath', the same word used to denote the Sabbath through the New Testament.

Why do the food laws cease, the system of sacrifice cease, the need to be circumcised cease, the other 9 commandments be fulfilled in the 'Golden Rule', but the 4th commandment alone continues to stand in a completely unmodified form ? Why was all of the Law fulfilled, except the Sabbath ?

If a Christian is the temple of the Holy Spirit, all the time, then how is the Sabbath more holy than any other day ? How is the temple made more or less holy by the cycles of the sun ?

[Woody]

The Sabbath was given to us at Creation.

It was given to Adam and Eve but certainly was meant for all mankind. You are right God fulfilled ALL of the commandments so that we are no longer under the Law but under HIS Grace.

But, I don't have to be told not to lie or not to kill or not to covet. I know that the ten commandments are still God's will for our life. They are the owners manual. They are for our good. They are not to judge us for the curse of the Law has been fulfilled by Jesus Christ. They ARE for our benefit.

Again I ask you - are there other commandments that you have a beef with? OR is it just the 4th that offends you?

[BibleOnly]

I'm not sure what to say, except to reiterate the questions you're not answering and the reasons that your comments do not apply to me.

1 - The Bible does not say the 10 commandments, or even the Sabbath, were given to Adam and Eve. In fact, it makes no sense to suggest this was true, at least before the fall.

2 - I know not to lie or steal, too. Not by the 10 commandments, but by the Holy Spirit inside me.

Hbr 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Hbr 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Hbr 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Hbr 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.

The difference between the new and old, is that the laws are in my heart, not on a stone tablet. For this reason, I am internally motivated to love my brother, not just to not steal from him, kill him, or covet his wife. In the same way, whereas before there was a law constraining my actions on one day of the week, now I rest in God every day. I (still) have no beef with any of the commandments, but, just as I do not feel obliged to circumcise my son to please God, or to not eat shellfish, so I don't feel obliged to live under law in regards to what I can do on a particular day, yet, I have the circumcision that comes from being a Christian, and I have the Sabbath rest that is given to all Christians.

3 - None of this claiming that I am offended by the Bible really gets away from the fact that I've shown from the Bible that Paul said that we don't need to esteem one day above another, and told us not to be judged according to Sabbath keeping. No-one has even tried to explain those verses to me. Asking what commandments I 'have a beef with' or why the fourth 'offends me' is really just self righteousness, it's not productive. I am sure that you hold your views with sincerity, I think you should give me the same respect. But, either way, if you can't explain why the Bible contradicts your views, then it's not me who is offended by scripture....

[Woody]

Quote:

I do not feel obliged to circumcise my son to please God

Well - I can appreciate that we are in agreement here.

But I was not aware of this being a requirement anyways.

I live my life in accordance with the ten commandments not some other list of rules that do not apply to me.

[BibleOnly]

Quote:

I do not feel obliged to circumcise my son to please God

Well - I can appreciate that we are in agreement here.

But I was not aware of this being a requirement anyways.

I live my life in accordance with the ten commandments not some other list of rules that do not apply to me.

Well, the need for circumcision, like the need to keep the Sabbath, is discussed in the New Testament as being unnecessary. If you live by the 10 commandments, and not by the Spirit, then you need to keep the whole law, the Bible says.

[Woody]

Hey brother - The Spirit is the driving force to keeping the commandments.

[Woody]

Anyways - As I stated. You are free to keep each day in Him. You are still a brother saved by Christ. I just would not be able to accomplish what you do without the Sabbath. So my hat is off to you. FOr you are clearly stronger than I.

[BibleOnly]

Hey brother - The Spirit is the driving force to keeping the commandments.

Kind of. It's the driving force for walking in the Spirit, which means more than just keeping the commandments.

OK, well, if your position is that you need to observe one day and I do not, then that's fine with me. I thought the SDA position was that I needed to keep the Sabbath, that's the position I was trying to understand. You're saying that you don't believe that God requires it, but just that you do, for yourself ? Is that the SDA position, because it seems to me to not be the position presented in other replies I've received.

[Woody]

The 4th Commandment is one of the Commandments. It is a command. But in your case if you have not been shown clearly by the Holy Spirit that you are to abide by the "commandments" then you can hardly be held responsible for that. WE are not saved by our correct knowledge of scripture - we are saved by the blood of Jesus.

The official stance of the Seventh day Adventist church is that there will be many Christians saved who have never ever kept the Sabbath day. This may be for various reason - but I can't be the judge as to why. That is up to God.

It is my personal belief that there will be more people saved who never kept the Sabbath than those who have kept it. Again I must point to you that we are not saved by our ability to understand God's Word/Doctrine or Commands - but we are saved by HIS BLOOD. That is the bottom line.

Welcome to the Fold brother. And you are my brother in Christ.

[BibleOnly]

OK, so, then, keeping the Sabbath is kind of irrelevant ? If you feel like it, then you can, but, if you don't, then it doesn't matter, because obviously you just didn't 'get' it ? What about the end times, when I am told that the government will force people to worship on Sunday, which will be the mark of the beast ?

What other things does God command that we only have to do, if we've decided we should do them ? This is a whole new angle on the discussion that I've not got from talking to other SDAs, it is very intriguing. Does the blood of Jesus save everyone who believes they are saved, regardless of their actions or what parts of the Bible they obey ? What is non negotiable ?

[Woody]

Quote:

If you feel like it

BibleOnly - It's difficult to converse with you if you misrepresent and misquote me. I never said you could do as you "feel". I said you should do as the Holy Spirit guides you. But if you go against how the Spirit leads - you are indeed in trouble.

I made the assumption that you were sincere in your beliefs. That is what matters. Our relationship with God is critical. If you are going by your "feelings" you are lost for your feeling are deceitful. They are selfish. They are sinful and of the world. I would hope you are not going to do what you feel like. That is the path of destruction.

Let the Lord lead and guide you. Then FOLLOW.

[Woody]

Let me just add one more thing.

We are not robotic Christians. The Holy Spirit is gentle and takes us where we are at. He convicts us on different things at a pace we can handle due to our life's circumstances. This I know from personal experience. It does not bother me in the slightest that you are not convicted on the issue of the 4th Commandment. I do hope and believe that at some point - the Holy Spirit may gently guide you in that direction. For I think it would be a great blessing to you.

For certain - we will be honoring the Sabbath in Heaven. Might as well get used to it here.

[cheddar]

Maybe a better question is why do you keep Sunday or the 1st day of the week? – assuming that you keep Sunday as most Christians do.

Where in the Bible does it say that Sunday worship replaced Sabbath worship?

Did Jesus, the disciples or the early Christians keep the 1st day of the week?

The 7th day sabbath goes all the way back to creation before sin entered the world and way before the Law was given to the Jews. We would all be keeping the sabbath today if Adam and Eve had never sinned.

Since you only want to focus on the bible please show biblical evidence for Sunday worship – if you can…

[BibleOnly]

OK, I'm sorry, let me explain. If, as others have said, the Holy Spirit comes in to our lives with no evidence, then, the question has to be, how do you tell the difference between what the Holy Spirit leads you to, and what you feel ? The only way I can see, is to refer to the scripture, and if we are to refer to scripture, then that indicates that there's a right and wrong. God either wants me to keep the Sabbath, or He doesn't. I've presented two scriptures from the NT that indicate He doesn't, and no-one has responded to them at all.

My starting point here is that someone I counted as a dear friend in high school, friended me on facebook, then decided never to speak to me again, because she was in the SDA, and she kept inviting discussion, but would get upset and offended when I'd ask her to explain her views from the Bible. So, I want to try to understand what she's involved in. I am certain that her non stop Face book posts along the lines of 'how can people claim to love God and yet ignore the most important commandment' do not suggest that the point of the SDA is 'you don't have to keep the Sabbath, but if you want to, we will have meetings on that day, so you can'.

My overall impression is that the SDA used to be a lot more militant, but is now trying hard to 'get along' with other churches, as so many are also doing, and so the message is getting a little watered down. I asked her if I am going to hell for going to church on Saturday and she refused to answer. Your answer is 'no', but, I'm not sure that answer gels with what I've read on SDA websites. So, I am confused.

Yes, 'there is a way that seems right to a man, and the end thereof is death'. So, how do we know we're not following man's way ? How important is it to follow God's way ? If the Sabbath is not vital to salvation, why does the SDA exist ? What is the point of difference ? Are SDA members more saved ? Is the idea that being in the SDA makes it EASIER to be saved, as God will bless you for keeping the Sabbath ?

[BibleOnly]

Maybe a better question is why do you keep Sunday or the 1st day of the week? – assuming that you keep Sunday as most Christians do.

Where in the Bible does it say that Sunday worship replaced Sabbath worship?

Did Jesus, the disciples or the early Christians keep the 1st day of the week?

The 7th day sabbath goes all the way back to creation before sin entered the world and way before the Law was given to the Jews. We would all be keeping the sabbath today if Adam and Eve had never sinned.

Since you only want to focus on the bible please show biblical evidence for Sunday worship – if you can…

There is no biblical evidence for sunday worship, any more than Saturday. Not one bit. I am astounded to find, after googling and talking to SDA members, that there's Christians who think Jesus died to move our day of rest by 24 hours. He did not. I do not 'keep Sunday'. I go to church twice a week, and neither is more important than the other. Sunday is one of those days because it's the day people are least likely to have to work. If the work week was made to be Wed to Sun tomorrow, I assume we'd move our Wed housemeeting to a hall meeting and have house meetings on a Saturday or Sunday, and it would make no difference to me. To reiterate, Jesus fulfilled the Law, and thus we are not under it, but being under grace, we fulfill the law too, which is written on our hearts. For example, instead of just not killing my brother, now I love him as myself. Instead of a legalistic 'day of rest', I rest in God every moment of every day. I am the temple of the Holy Spirit, how could that not be true ?

More specifically, no scripture written to the church tells them to keep the Sabbath and two tell them they don't need to, anymore. I've quoted them twice on this thread already. No-one has explained to me how they fit with your views.

[Gibs]

BibleOnly,

He fulfilled it by keeping it substantiating it instead of makeing it not relevant and it is as relevant as always and when you break that fourth one you are back under the law again and it condemns you as a schoolmaster and the Holy Spirit convicts you of your sin.

Ro 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Ro 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

You cannot break it without it condemning you. Your peace then is gone.

He gives you the power to keep it, take and find peace and free yourself from the bondage of sin. It is Christ in you that is the victory.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[BibleOnly]

BibleOnly,

He fulfilled it by keeping it substantiating it instead of makeing it not relevant and it is as relevant as always and when you break that fourth one you are back under the law again and it condemns you as a schoolmaster and the Holy Spirit convicts you of your sin.