Worshipping in the Spirit

[BibleOnly]

Jhn 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Jhn 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

What does this mean ? How does one worship in the Spirit ? What does God care about more, how we worship, or what day we do it ?

[12tribes]

Jhn 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Jhn 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

What does this mean ? How does one worship in the Spirit ? What does God care about more, how we worship, or what day we do it ?

Romans 1:9

(9) For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

I think it means from the heart and in truth means what we do outwardly. The pharisees worshiped God outwardly only but God wants an inward from the heart as well

[Q.E.D.]

What does God care about more, how we worship, or what day we do it?

One might ask the ever pertinent question. . . "What does your wife care about more, HOW you celebrate your aniversary a DAY LATE, or what DAY you celebrate it?" Methinks Sunday is a day late. . .

Cheers! Q.E.D.

[Q.E.D.]

Jhn 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Jhn 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

What does this mean?

PNEUMA

{pnyoo'-mah} Strong's {4151}Definitions: from (4154) ; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figurative a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implicaiton) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare (5590).

"Worship in spirit" means the entirety of your life as in every thought, intent, desire, and action of your life.

Q.E.D.

[Gerr]

"Worship in spirit" means the entirety of your life as in every thought, intent, desire, and action of your life.

Q.E.D.

[BibleOnly]

Originally Posted By: BibleOnly

What does God care about more, how we worship, or what day we do it?

One might ask the ever pertinent question. . . "What does your wife care about more, HOW you celebrate your aniversary a DAY LATE, or what DAY you celebrate it?" Methinks Sunday is a day late. . .

Cheers! Q.E.D.

This is a flawed human analogy. It cannot compete with scripture.

A better one would be, why would I claim to only love my wife on her anniversary ? Why would I even claim to love her more on our anniversary ? I love her the same every day. And, if our anniversary falls on a week night, and we decide to go out for dinner on the weekend because it's more convenient, that does not degrade the expression of my affection.

[BibleOnly]

Originally Posted By: BibleOnly

Jhn 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Jhn 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

What does this mean?

PNEUMA

{pnyoo'-mah} Strong's {4151}Definitions: from (4154) ; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figurative a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implicaiton) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare (5590).

"Worship in spirit" means the entirety of your life as in every thought, intent, desire, and action of your life.

Q.E.D.

Where does the Bible say this ? If your whole life is worship in Spirit, what is worship in truth ?

[Gail]

It's an intriguing question, isn't it?

While worshipping in spirit is desired, where is it without the truth part?

[BibleOnly]

1Cr 14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

1Cr 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

This is the only definition of prayer/worship 'in the Spirit'. Everything else is conjecture.

[BobRyan]

Jhn 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Jhn 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

What does this mean ? How does one worship in the Spirit ? What does God care about more, how we worship, or what day we do it ?

God says that to bring rebellion against God into worship - is to invalidate worship.

"in vain do they Worship ME teaching for doctrines the commandments of men" Mark 7

Cain decided on a little "customized worship" of the One True God - and found out that God was particular about the would-be worshiper actually doing what God said.

"To OBEY is better than to sacrifice in worship" according to God.

It is no wonder then that God asks "Who requires of you this trampling of My courts" Isaiah 1:12 and again He says "Oh that someone would shut the door!" Mal 1:10 - when worshipers of the ONE true God seek to enter his presents bringing rebellion against God's Word - with them.

So then - are there some who will then say "Wait a minute!! I choose to worship God in MY way and that should be good enough for Him! Who gave Him the right to insist that I do it HIS way??!"??

well??

in Christ,

Bob

[BibleOnly]

Originally Posted By: BibleOnly

Jhn 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Jhn 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

What does this mean ? How does one worship in the Spirit ? What does God care about more, how we worship, or what day we do it ?

God says that to bring rebellion against God into worship - is to invalidate worship.

"in vain do they Worship ME teaching for doctrines the commandments of men" Mark 7

Cain decided on a little "customized worship" of the One True God - and found out that God was particular about the would-be worshiper actually doing what God said.

"To OBEY is better than to sacrifice in worship" according to God.

It is no wonder then that God asks "Who requires of you this trampling of My courts" Isaiah 1:12 and again He says "Oh that someone would shut the door!" Mal 1:10 - when worshipers of the ONE true God seek to enter his presents bringing rebellion against God's Word - with them.

So then - are there some who will then say "Wait a minute!! I choose to worship God in MY way and that should be good enough for Him! Who gave Him the right to insist that I do it HIS way??!"??

well??

in Christ,

Bob

I agree. Many attempt to worship THEIR way instead of HIS. And HIS is to worship 'in Spirit and in truth'. So, if He requires this, it follows that He told us what it means. As I said, there's only one definition of prayer 'in the Spirit' in the Bible. So, that answers the question. God cares a lot more about how we worship, than what day we do it. In fact, we should worship in truth and Spirit every day.

[BobRyan]

Jesus said in John 17 "Sanctify them in Thy Truth - Thy WORD is Truth"

And He said in John 4 "Those who worship God must Worship Him in spirit and in TRUTH"

And in John 14 "I AM the Way the TRUTH and the life".

And in John 1 "The WORD became flesh".

Those who suppose that they can have Christ -- just not the WORDS of Christ found in the 66 books of the Bible - are mistaken according to 1John 2:4-9.

No wonder then that Paul says "what matters is keeping the commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19. (That must have been unpopular in his day too -- not just in our day).

we should worship in truth and Spirit every day.

Amen and amen!

However it would be a sin to "not work" every day as if that was in service to God. Such setting aside of a day for holy purpose - is already specified by God Himself in Ex 20:8-11 where He also tells us that to refrain from work the other six days would be a mistake.

in Christ,

Bob

[BibleOnly]

Yes, I agree. Many worship in the spirit and not the truth, because they have itching ears and follow strange doctrines. Both are important. You can't worship in truth and not in the Spirit, and it's a waste of time to worship in the Spirit if you don't also worship in truth.

1Cr 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

What Paul is actually saying is that following the symbols of the law is worthless of itself. It's kind of like worshipping in truth without the Spirit ( if that were possible ). You may be doing the right things, but you've missed the core point. Of course it matters to do what God said, that is what the core of 'worshipping in truth' is.

[BobRyan]

"Keeping the Commandments of God" is a direct reference to the actual Commandments of God written in the actual Bible.

In 1Cor 7:19 Paul contrasts the ritual aspects of the Law whereby Jews are differentiated from Gentiles (in the case of circumcision it is a commitment to observe all of the ceremonial law) - with the moral law itself.

Paul tells the gentiles in Corinth that whether someone is or is not a Jew (circumcision vs not) is not the important issue -- rather KEEPING the Commandments of God - is.

No wonder then that James 2 says to "Live and walk as those who ARE to be judged by the Law" (Where James refers to the Ten Commandment law as the "Law of Liberty".)

No wonder then that Paul says "it is NOT the hearers of the Law that are JUST before God but the DOERS of the Law WILL BE justifIED ... on the day when according to my GOSPEL God WILL judge all mankind".

in Christ,

Bob

[BibleOnly]

"Keeping the Commandments of God" is a direct reference to the actual Commandments of God written in the actual Bible.

[Gibs]

BibleOnly,

You ask what do these verses mean?,

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

I submit it means just what it says, He MUST be worshipped in Spirit because He is Spirit and we would not live in His personal Presence.

Then He MUST be worshipped in Truth as to do so in error, untruths is not acceptable and He will not be present in the midst thereof. He who is Truth must be worshipped in the same.

I could add more but that answers the question.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[M. T. Cross]

He MUST be worshipped in Spirit because He is Spirit and we would not live in His personal Presence.

Well thats gonna make heaven a short lived adventure now ain't it.

[BibleOnly]

BibleOnly,

You ask what do these verses mean?,

Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

I submit it means just what it says, He MUST be worshipped in Spirit because He is Spirit and we would not live in His personal Presence.

Then He MUST be worshipped in Truth as to do so in error, untruths is not acceptable and He will not be present in the midst thereof. He who is Truth must be worshipped in the same.

I could add more but that answers the question.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Well, I agree with that, but it doesn't answer the question. What does 'worship in the Spirit' mean ?

[BibleOnly]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

He MUST be worshipped in Spirit because He is Spirit and we would not live in His personal Presence.

Well thats gonna make heaven a short lived adventure now ain't it.

*grin* I got a laugh out of this. There is no such place as heaven, rather the saints of God rule with Him on earth, restoring Israel. And when they are raised to meet Him, they are changed, and 'are like Him, for we shall see Him as He is'.

[12tribes]

True worship will worship God with all our heart

Mark 12:29-30

(29) And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

(30) And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

[BibleOnly]

Yes, this is true, if vague.

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

"Keeping the Commandments of God" is a direct reference to the actual Commandments of God written in the actual Bible.

Yes, all of them. Not just the 10, and not the 10 in the sense given to Israel, as if Jesus did nothing for us on the cross. Outsiders could join Israel before Jesus died for us.

[BibleOnly]

"The Bible never required Gentiles to be circumcised or to become Jews in the OT or in any part of the NT. They were only required to worship the One true God and to accept the Bible. Hence we see a lot of non-circumcised gentiles in Acts 13 worshiping on Sabbath in the synagogue and hearing the Gospel."

Gen 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

So that includes outsiders, or did Israel sell one another ?

Gen 34:15 But in this will we consent unto you: If ye will be as we [be], that every male of you be circumcised;

Gen 34:16 Then will we give our daughters unto you, and we will take your daughters to us, and we will dwell with you, and we will become one people.

Gen 34:17 But if ye will not hearken unto us, to be circumcised; then will we take our daughter, and we will be gone.

And so on. Not that this really proves any point.

Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

It just says the whole law. The differentiation you make is not in the Bible.

"But I hope you are not imagining that many here will join you in that indulgence."

No, I am mostly here to understand your beliefs, but where mine come up, I'll represent the Gospel with care, although it does not seem like the sort of place where souls are likely to be saved.