Snippets from the hard copy Universal Reconciliation library of rodger

[dialoguewithus]

Ecclesiastes 1:13 (CLV)

I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:it is an experience of evil Elohim has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

Gen 50:20

And you, you devised against me evil, yet the Elohim devises it for me for good, that it may work out as at this day, to preserve alive many people.

Ro. 8:20

For to vanity was the creation subjected, not voluntarily, but because of Him Who subjects it, in expectation" 21 that the creation itself, also, shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

The creation will be freed from corruption (death), not by making death eternal, but by its abolition.

[rodgertutt]

#85 - THE PLACE OF HUMANITY IN GOD’S PURPOSE – JOHN H. ESSEX

“The freedom we now enjoy in spirit will ultimately be enjoyed by the whole creation when it is reconciled to God, and this includes the whole of humanity, for God wills all mankind to be saved and to come into a realization of the truth (1Tim.2:4). When His purpose is accomplished, there will be no vessels of indignation left.

When the reconciliation of all is complete the joy of the universe will be full. When the purpose of the All-sufficient God has reached its consummation, and He is All in all, every heart will be filled with the true laughter which accompanies the praise and adoration of Him Who is Supreme and Whose name is Love.”

[dialoguewithus]

Romans 5:

The Apostle Paul at this point rises to profound heights of mathematical logic as he labors to prove that the extend of redemption not only equals but EXCEEDS the extent of sin.

His argument may be broken down into the following points:

1. Sin entered into the world through ONE man--Adam. Through him, sin was passed through to ALL the rest of his descendants, or to ALL humanity. After Adam, NO ONE had a choice in the matter. They ALL came into the world as Sinners.

2. Jesus Christ, the SECOND Adam, came to nullify or undo the damage that the first Adam brought upon his race.

3. The Second Adam bears the same relationship to the human race, that of Father or procreator, as did the First Adam. Therefore, the results of HIS actions will be AT LEAST as inclusive as those of the First Adam.

4. Paul, however, claims that the results of the work of the Second Adam will FAR EXCEED those of the First Adam.

5. What were the respective gifts of the two Adams ?? Through the First Adam SIN and DEATH spread to ALL MEN. Verse 15 states that by the trespass of the one man (Adam) the "MANY" died. Now let me ask you clearly -- Who are the "MANY" ?? If the "MANY" does NOT refer to ALL humanity, then you are telling me that there were some SINLESS beings that Jesus DID NOT need to die for. However, Romans 3:23 and 5:12 say that ALL have sinned. Also, make a clear note of this -- This "MANY" DID NOT have to do anything to be constituted sinners. It was their inheritance from their father, Adam !!

6. Verse 19 goes on to say that IN LIKE MANNER, or according to the same rule or principle, the gift of the Second Adam will overflow to this SAME "MANY". If the "MANY" that received the gift of the First Adam means ALL of Humanity, by what possible manner of reasoning can you make the "MANY" that receive of the gift of the Second Adam to be anything less than ALL of humanity ?? What is the gift of the Second Adam ? It is nothing less than that the "MANY" shall be JUSTIFIED and made RIGHTEOUS !!!

7. Paul actually says, if our hearts and faith can be stretched to believe and receive it, that the gift of Jesus Christ will bring EVEN GREATER GLORY than this. He says that the "gift IS NOT like the trespass." The disobedience of ONE MAN brought death to the "MANY". How much greater weight of glory will be released into the universe by the OBEDIENCE of the ONE MAN, Jesus Christ?

8. In closing this point, it is interesting to note that Orthodox Christianity makes Paul to be a liar on this point and the Obedience of Christ to be a trifling thing compared to the Disobedience of Adam. According to them, Adam's sin brought death and destruction to ALL men, while the GLORY of the Father will actually impart Life and Righteous to only a VERY SMALL handful of humanity.

9. 1 Cor 15:22 sums this point up quite explicitly. It states that, "As in Adam ALL die, so in Christ shall ALL be made alive." Perhaps at this point you will defend your doctrine of "Eternal Damnation" by insisting that even those in "Hell" are alive. Then I ask YOU, "Can they be 'in Hell' and be 'in Christ' at the same time??" As I read the Scripture, it asserts that to be "in Christ" is to be connected to the Life of the Vine, to have the impartation of the Holy Spirit, and to be partakers of all of the gifts and fruits of the Spirit. In other words, it is to have "Resurrection Life and Immortality". As Paul further states in 2 Cor 5:17, "If ANYONE is IN CHRIST, he is a NEW Creature. The old has passed away."

10. This line of reasoning is also contained in Isaiah 53:11,12, where Isaiah is foretelling the suffering of the Messiah. Here he states that the Messiah will justify "MANY", as He will bear the sins of this same "MANY".

http://www.gtft.org/Library/jenke/aejenke.htm

[dialoguewithus]

Mistaken belief: We must be an "overcomer" to be saved, for Christ's sacrifice is insufficient to secure our salvation. God, on the other hand, although He is omnipotent, won't be an "Overcomer"; death will win over life for most of mankind, whom He repeatedly declares He wants to be saved.

_The indisputable fact that our righteous deeds glorify God cannot nullify the even more indisputable fact that God's deeds glorify Him, and He never fails. Jesus said of a mere mortal, 'This man begins building and is not strong enough to finish up!' -Luke 14:30. Can we imagine God beginning a universe without first planning for its redemption?

[dialoguewithus]

Mistaken belief: When we read two verses with seemingly contradictory messages, we take literally the one which emphasizes condemnation and make figurative or theoretical the verse which mentions the triumph of mercy over condemnation.

[dialoguewithus]

…He chooses us in Him before the disruption of the world, we to be holy and flawless in His sight, in love designating us beforehand for the place of a son for Him through Christ Jesus; in accord with the delight of His will, for the laud of the glory of His grace, which graces us in the Beloved –Eph. 1:4-6

that, in the oncoming eons, He should be displaying the transcendent riches of His grace in His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present, not of works, lest anyone should be boasting. For His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them. –Eph. 2:7-10

God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day. –Ro. 11:8

Consequently, then, to whom He will, He is merciful, yet whom He will, He is hardening. –Ro. 9:18

…for not for all is the faith -2 Thes. 3:2

Or has not the potter the right over the clay, out of the same kneading to make one vessel, indeed, for honor, yet one for dishonor? –Ro. 9:21

These verses point out the dichotomy presently prevailing among mankind. God has divided us into two parts, according to His wise plan.

[dialoguewithus]

“Now we ought to be thanking God always concerning you, brethren, beloved by the Lord, seeing that God prefers you from the beginning for salvation, in holiness of the spirit and faith in the truth” 2 Thes. 2:13.

Prefer –Greek [h]air e’ o LIFT (to like one thing better than another). The word is also found in Phil 1:22 and Heb. 11:25, with a similar word in Matt. 12:18. Paul reminds the Thessalonians that it was God who chose them to be believers in His Son, Christ Jesus. It is likewise apparent that He preferred others not to belong to Christ’s Body.

[Samie]

Did you notice that in the following posts made, there is not a single reference given from Scriptures to back up the claim?

Quote:

1. #519663

2. #519666

3. #519668

4. #519669

5. #519671

6. #519674

7. #519676

Why? Because the Bible does not agree with the contentions in those posts. Beware of the teaching of the Universalists.

[rodgertutt]

Did you notice that in the following posts made, there is not a single reference given from Scriptures to back up the claim?

Quote:

1. #519663

2. #519666

3. #519668

4. #519669

5. #519671

6. #519674

7. #519676

Why? Because the Bible does not agree with the contentions in those posts. Beware of the teaching of the Universalists.

Scriptural proof, all on one website, for your enjoyment.

UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY

http://richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm

[dialoguewithus]

There's more scriptural proof for those posts, Samie, throughout this thread. I'd be interested to read a verse by verse explanation from you or anyone on 1 Cor. 15:20-28, similar to the one I posted. God bless!

[rodgertutt]

#86 – A FEW THOUGHTS ON THE SCRIPTURES – G.J. SALTER

“It is hard for man to accept how completely he is in the hands of God. Churchianity pictures God as sitting off to one side, waiting and pleading for His creatures to come to Him. Instead of that He is the active force; He is the mover of all things. We simply live and move and have our being in Him (Acts 17:28). If He does not move us we are not moved; if He does not enlighten us we are not enlightened.

The course that God has taken to accomplish His purpose for man is preeminently the right one for God is Almighty, so there is no question of His power to do whatever He wills, and He wills all men to be saved (1Tim. 2:3&4).”

[dialoguewithus]

Can God do anything He wishes? Yes. “All that Yahweh delights He does, In the heavens and on earth, In the seas and every abyss” Ps. 135:6. See Matt. 19:25, 26.

Does God wish all to be saved? Yes. “who will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” 1 Tim. 2:4. See Acts 4:12.

It’s not wishful thinking to accept God’s plan to reconcile all after judging sin and sinners during the eons; it is defeatism, partialism, and a twisting of the truth to make condemnation and death triumph over justification and life. It is a backward way of seeing things to imagine that Adam’s disobedience will somehow prove more powerful than Christ’s obedience.

[dialoguewithus]

There’s something extra in reconciliation

Conciliation refers to a person who holds no hard feelings toward another person. The word reconciliation has two more letters in English, while in New Testament Greek, there are three more lettters. Reconciliation includes conciliation but goes beyond it. Conciliation refers to the feelings or attitude of one side only; one side wants the estrangement to end. Reconciliation refers to a mutual agreement after an estrangement; both sides are conciliated. We are well aware that God knows the end from the beginning, and as He sees things, the plan of salvation is complete and all are reconciled and sin has been abolished. Nevertheless, as to the present reality faced by creation, these promises are just that: promises. The complete fulfillment of God’s plan is yet to occur; it is in process, and it is assured, but it is not now complete. We read in Colossians 1:20 that God will, through Christ, “reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens”. The beneficiaries of this reconciliation are defined as well in verse 16: “for in Him [Christ] is all created, that in the heavens and that on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones, or lordships, or sovereignties, or authorities, all is created through Him and for Him”. Since reconciliation involves a mutual agreement, there must be two parties to be in agreement. Therefore, the reconciliation of creation is an ongoing process. This reconciliation was assured at the cross, but the estrangement must be abolished in each heart, including those who at the time of Christ’s crucifixion, had yet to come into existence. The promised universal reconciliation must include those who perished during infancy and those who never heard the evangel; obviously their reconciliation is yet future. God promises to be “All in all” (1 Cor. 15:28), so we can rest assured that He will see to it that all creation submits themselves to Him in loving adoration.

[Samie]

The Universalist teaches the enemies of God now will ultimately be saved and live on forever with God after having been thrown into the lake of fire. This is more of a demon-inspired teaching prodding on the wicked to live more wickedly without fear of punishment because ultimately they will be saved with the righteous. The Bible does not and cannot teach this.

Quote:

1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

This verse tells us it is only after all other enemies have been destroyed that death will be destroyed. Since the other enemies of God will likewise be destroyed as death, therefore the destruction to befall death is the same destruction to befall the other enemies of God.

Scriptures say that after death is destroyed, it will never exist again (Rev 21:4). So with the other enemies of God.

Beware of the teaching of the Universalist.

[rodgertutt]

Quote:

1 Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

The reason we know that is not true is because "God will have ALL men to be saved" 1Tim. 2:4

It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved.

And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11).

Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of what He wants” if you like.

Because God says

"My counsel shall stand.

I will do all my pleasure

(the saving of all mankind is part of the pleasure that God wants)

Yea I have spoken it.

I will also bring it to pass.

I have purposed it.

I will also do it."

Isaiah 46:10,11

Job 23:13 “But he stands alone, and who can oppose Him?

He does whatever he pleases.

(the saving of all mankind is part of what He wants that pleases Him).

Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:

It will not return to me empty,

but will accomplish what I desire

and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

(the saving of all mankind is part of all of which God desires or wants)

So we see God does all His pleasure, He does whatever He pleases, and His word accomplishes that which He desires.

His pleasure, that which He desires and pleases Him is what He wants.

His will = What He wants

What does He want?

THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND

Why will it happen?

Because God Himself will see to it that it gets done.

Any cooperation towards our salvation is the result, not the cause of God laying hold on us by His saving grace and causing Jesus to be "choice" in our heart, just like it was in the case of Lydia and Saul of Tarsus.

[rodgertutt]

#87 - RESTORATION: THROUGH THE FEAST OF TABERNACLES – CHARLES WELLER

“The feast of tabernacles means the feast of ingathering. It takes an eight day period to bring in the fullness of the ingathering. Eight is the number of new beginnings in scripture or FULL RESTORATION.

1Corinthians 15 is the last chapter in the Bible. The fifteenth chapter clearly shows how great the totality of the feast of tabernacles will be. ‘As in Adam all die (every preacher will agree that all people are in Adam but few believe that the word all mean all in the second part of the verse) so in Christ all shall be made alive.’ Jesus is going to gather all together in Himself. He will have everyone in His nature.

Everything that occurs, occurs in the plan and order of God. In 1Corinthians 15 God shows that there are different orders. The highest order is Jesus Christ. Everything will, in time, be brought into Jesus Christ. All shall be gathered into Him. When this is done then Jesus, the Son, will turn all over to the Father. It is then we find that time ends, for God becomes All in all (verse 28).

[dialoguewithus]

Verses 25 & 26:

For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy is being abolished: death.

Samie, the word until means "up to a particular time", as in Matthew 1:24, 25. "Till" is a synonym of "until". So, Christ will no longer reign after death is abolished. 1 Cor. 15:24. And death will be abolished for all mankind- verses 22 and 28. Christ will be reigning on the new earth- Rev. 22:1; 11:15. The Adversary will be in torment during the eon of the new earth, so obviously, all Christ's enemies are not yet subjected, as Christ will subject Himself to His Father- Rev. 20:10; 1 Cor. 15:28. Rev. 21:4 reads "death will be no more", yet we know that many will be dead at that time- verse 8. Therefore "death will be no more" must mean no more will die. If you say the second death is eternal, then you can't say death won't exist, for when there are dead people, there is death. It is simply impossible for all to be reconciled to God and bow their knee to Him, in the Name of Jesus ("Yahweh saves"), and then for some of them to be annihilated. It is simply impossible for all mankind to be constituted just, and then for some of them to be annihilated. Ro. 5:19.

[dialoguewithus]

1 Cor. 15: 17 Now, if Christ has not been roused, vain is your faith - you are still in your sins! 18 Consequently those also, who are put to repose in Christ, perished.

If Christ were not raised from death, then all those who die perish. We might say they are "annihilated", but we could by no means say that they were not dead, or that death had been abolished.

In like manner, those who experience the second death, will be DEAD, until they are resurrected and vivified by the Giver of Life. It is therefore impossible for death to be abolished until the second death gives up its victims.

Romans 5:18

Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just award for all mankind for life's justifying.

What was the condemnation? Sin and mortality.

What is the one just award for life's justifying? Righteousness and immortality.

How are these "awards" given?

From Adam we inherit sin and death; the application is universal.

"THUS ALSO", from the Second Adam we inherit righteouness and immortality; the application is universal.

This is so because, as Paul explains in verse 15: "But not as the offense, thus also the grace. For if, by the offense of the one, the many died, much rather the grace of God and the gratuity in grace, which is of the One Man, Jesus Christ, to the many superabounds."

If the effects of the "one offense for all mankind for condemnation" were greater than the effects of the "one just award for all mankind for life's justifying", then grace would not superabound; it would be an insufficient remedy for the illness. God would have started a plan of salvation without being able to bring it to completion. Glory be to God- He never fails! 1 Cor. 13.

[Lysimachus]

Lots of scriptures alright, but no "scriptural proof".

It's like giving us words in English, and somehow trying to convince us that they read in Korean.

[rodgertutt]

Lots of scriptures alright, but no "scriptural proof".

It's like giving us words in English, and somehow trying to convince us that they read in Korean.

Whether or not there is "proof" of UR in the Bible is an opinion.

Some of us think there is, and here's why.

One Step Out of Hell; One Step Short of Glory

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/EternalDeath.html

In this artcle Gary Amirault responds to the arguments that used to keep him believing that the Bible teaches annihilation, and he explains why he now believes the Bible teaches universal salvation instead.

IMO Gary's article is convincing proof.

But perhaps one has to want to even hope that UR might be true in order to be willing to investigate why some of us think it is.

[rodgertutt]

#88 - THE EONS OF THE BIBLE – JOSEPH E. KIRK

The introduction reads “Mistranslation of the Greek word ‘aion’ is a master stroke of diabolical genius. Perhaps no other word erroneously translated, could more effectively pervert man’s image of God and cause such widespread confusion. Because the understanding of the eons and God’s purpose in them has been lost, the church is divided on important issues like judgment, and man’s destiny. The following work by Joseph E. Kirk is offered in the hope that the serious seeker after spiritual truth will be aided in their quest.”

Here is a snippet from the writing itself. “During this present wicked eon (Gal.1:4), sin reigns, Satan who is said to be ‘the god of this eon’ (2Cor. 4:4) blinds and deceives mankind, and death swallows up the race (1Cor. 15:22). But notwithstanding, God is over all and in supreme control. He is the eonian God.

In due time, He will deliver the entire creation and bring good out of all the suffering mankind is called upon to endure (Rom. 8:18-23).”

[dialoguewithus]

Lk. 18:31-34.

[Lysimachus]

Sorry, I am not going to read those articles.

I have my work cut out. I know the work God has given me to do. I must heed my marching orders, and reading your articles are not part of those orders.

[rodgertutt]

Sorry, I am not going to read those articles.

I have my work cut out. I know the work God has given me to do. I must heed my marching orders, and reading your articles are not part of those orders.

I like what UR Ray Prinzing, my hero and mentor said.

"God chooses the belief system that each person embraces, and He also controls how long each person stays in that belief system."

[rodgertutt]

#89 - OUR CHURCH FATHERS TESTIFY – DR. JACK JACOBSON

“If the concept of universal restoration seems to be a modern idea, it’s only because the understanding of this glorious plan of God is new to our modern minds. Universal restoration, in fact, is a truth one taught to and received by most of the saints of antiquity. The modern church has become blinded to the fact of universal restoration as given in the scriptures, but this is not a blindness that was shared by the early church.”

This introduction is followed by quotes by many UR church leaders during the first six centuries of the Christian church.