Snippets from the hard copy Universal Reconciliation library of rodger

[Samie]

Samie, the verse in question on this thread, or the Daniel 11 thread is not the issue. It is your attitude toward bible interpretation that is the problem. What you are telling Roger, myself, anyone that asks is your interpretation of a bible verse is THEE way, or the highway.

"Or, is there anything more you want clarified? Please, don't hesitate to ask. The Bible has all the answers."

The BIBLE Samie, not necessarily YOU.

I would simply ask this:

What credentials do you bring to the table so I can gauge your interpretations as being accurate in the first place?

Lots of people on this forum make the claim they, and they alone, can correctly interpret scripture. Some do so by claiming they have had visions! Others claim God spoke to them! Still others say the Holy Spirit revealed it to them! What credentials do you offer Samie? How are those credentials any different than the next guy who makes the same claim? WHY should Roger accept your interpretation?

Here are my credentials:

I am a member of the Seventh-day Adventist Church and I support that Church in every way. Physically, spiritually, personally involved manual labor and with my pocket book. I am in perfect harmony with that Church, it's leadership and the brethren on all the official points of doctrine and the 28 fundamental beliefs. I believe Ellen White was an inspired messenger of the Lord, a prophet, and as such offers inspired commentary on the interpretation of scripture. A source of information I can place 100% confidence in. I have studied these issues for myself and came to the same conclusions as the Seventh-day Adventist Church. The foundation is solid, the pillars of faith stand, the foundation cannot be moved. My interpretations are in no way "private" they are in agreement with biblical scholars from the Adventist Church going back over a 100 years. I understand the concept that there will be new light, I will willingly look at it, compare it with what the brethren think about and make an intelligent decision whether to "hold it fast" or reject it at the present time. Perhaps in a future time, we will have more light on it if it cannot be immediately accepted as truth.

Did I offer any interpretation in this thread, brother? Where? What post number?

In view of your last two sentences quoted above, why are you so rude in castigating me when I present what I believe is "new light"? Why not go about it as you say you would in those 2 last statements of yours? Is it because the presentation did not come from those whom you consider to be the only source of "new light"?

[Samie]

ClubV12, I really appreciate your input and find light in what you're saying to Samie, although, Samie, I was somewhat rude to you, and I regret that.

Apology acknowledged, brother. I'm sorry too if I may have hurt your feelings in any way.

[ClubV12]

I didn't mean to issue a challenge Samie as to your credentials, I'll let others be the judge of that.

All of us can offer our own personal testimony of what God has done for us, no qaulifiers, doctrines or credentials required!

When we move into the teaching others, offering personal opinion, interpreting scripture, the standard goes up considerably. In the book of James we find counsel that not all should aspire to become teachers, the standard goes up, your feet will be held to the fire. People are going to want to know, WHO is this guy? What credentails does he have?

Perhaps a PhD for some, that does carry some weight, more with some, less with others. Just some guy from the country with no special training at all? That might carry MORE weight than the PhD for some folks! I wouldn't ignore the Country guy, I'd consider his counsel, weigh the evidence. Ordained Minister? Whoa, at the very least the guy deserves some serious respect, but that doesn't mean I believe him 100%. Same tests apply to all, to the law and the testimony, the fruit of their work, a humble or pridefull spirit? Test all things....

Now when someone offers "new light" the tests, the credentials, the authority to present it go to the HIGHEST LEVELS. New Light is very serious business, I'll test it at length and in detail and consult with the brethren!

[rodgertutt]

Rodger...

I would be more than willing to at my own expense, start up a forum for you using the software I have on www.theologyreview.com www.foroadventista.com etc etc

The google ads should cover my expenses like hosting, domain name etc etc.

You would have to populate the content and get the members.

Thoughts?

Thank you for your very generous offer Stan.

But I am posting my snippets and responding to the comments on several dozens of forums at the same time, and it keeps me very busy most of every day.

I do aleady have my own forum but spend very little time on it.

http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/

You (and others too) might enjoy reading some of the many entries in my guest book at

http://books.dreambook.com/vissfam/hope4you.html

[Stan]

Well, I have just googled your posting, and yes you do post all over.

[rodgertutt]

A brand new excellent short writing by Martin Zender

Meet The Woman Who Saved Herself – by Martin Zender

http://www.martinzender.com/ZWTF/ZWTF12.pdf

[rodgertutt]

"FOR WHO HATH RESISTED HIS WILL" – K. ROSS MCKAY

"Because of their past teaching in the tradition of man, many will argue that man's own will shall prevent the fulfilling of God's own stated will. But according to God's word of truth wherein He cannot lie, He shall mercifully prove them to be wrong. Fortunately for mankind, God works ALL things, including man's destiny, after the counsel of His own will, and always, what His soul desires, even that He does (Job 23:13).

Believe it or not, God's intimate sovereign control is absolute and universal in scope (Job 3:7), even to the extent of man's delusions (2Thes. 1:11; Is. 66:4; Jer. 6:19). This is notably evident in the church's delusion – that God cannot successful influence the human will unless we let Him. But God has absolute control over the extent of success to which His word reaches and changes others, even to the extent of controlling what that word means to each individual (Is. 29:14; Matt. 13:11; 19:11).

It is a prophetic fact, predetermined, willed, divinely promised, and assured by the word of our faithful God Who in fact 'WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED' (1Tim. 2:4), This is true not only because 'HE IS THE SAVIOUR OF ALL MEN' (1Tim. 4:10), and not just of the first fruits whom He now specially causes to believe, but also because of the truth that 'HE IS NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH or be rendered unfit for the ultimate pleasure of His will (Rev. 4:11; Eph. 1:5,9; Col. 1:19,20), for 'IT IS NOT OF HIM WHO IS WILLING, NOR OF HIM WHO RUNS, BUT OF GOD (Rom. 9:16).

[rodgertutt]

THE MESSAGE FOR THE WORLD – Gary Siglar

The message for the world today is only one --- that God has reconciled you back to Himself. He didn't just redeem a few. He didn't just forgive a few. He didn't determine that a few would be saved and the rest would be eternally lost. God has a plan that is so perfect and worked out to restore all of mankind back to their source.

If you understand that no matter where you are today God chose you, before the foundation of the world, that you would be holy and without blame before Him in love. If you can believe this simple word you will rejoice.

I know the condition of carnal humanity. I know the condition of some people who love God. I know the carnal condition that most of us are in. The truth is --- and the truth will set you free --- you are holy, unblameable, and irreprovable in His sight. Not in your carnal adamic life, but in Christ. Christ is holy, unblemished, and undefiled. If you can accept that you will be that experientially. If you can't accept that you won't yet experience it but you still will eventually as God brings you into the knowledge of your true identity.

God has never, ever, made one human being that will fail except for a good purpose, because He works all things after the counsel of His own will. Known by God are all His works from beginning unto end.

Gary Sigler

http://sigler.org/

[Guest]

Gary Sigler should read the Bible.

[rodgertutt]

Gary Sigler should read the Bible.

The conclusion of some of us who read the Bible.

TESTIMONY VIDEO OF J. PRESTON EBY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEwcWR8kxUs&feature=sub

A great sixteen chapter introductory series to ultimate reconciliation.

J. Preston Eby does a thorough job covering many aspects of the topic.

Fundamental reading for any person interested in studying universalism from a solid biblical perspective.

Highly Recommended!

http://www.godfire.net/eby/saviour_of_the_world.html

Gary Amirault interviews Greek scholar Louis Abbott about his belief that the Bible teaches universal salvation (in eight parts)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJoNxjUAAi8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuoRnAsugew

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAsVTXJYEHY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_sblmYiX4I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfx6tcwq3M4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM5fSRDxVwg

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3213148682308877255#

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoWeKXdNhyg

AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS - Louis Abbott

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/asw/index.html

Yet another excellent website expounding Christian Biblical Universalism

UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY

http://richardwaynegarganta.com/universalsalvation.htm

[rodgertutt]

Eternal Death (Conditional Immortality, Annihilation):

A writing by Gary Amirault specifically addressing the arguments in favor of the Bible teaching annihilation.

One Step Out of Hell; One Step Short of Glory

ETERNAL DEATH ANNIHILATION?

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/EternalDeath.html

INTRODUCTION

When it comes to the final destination of the wicked, or unrighteous, Christians over the past two millenniums have divided themselves into three beliefs: 1. Eternal Torment, 2. Eternal Death (Annihilationism), and 3. Salvation of the whole world through Jesus Christ. Each of these views can be supported with Scriptures. Having been in all three groups, I know that there are sincere Bible centered believers in all of them. Obviously, all three cannot be true. Two of them have to be false.

WILL UNBELIEVERS BE ANNIHILATED? (chapters three and four)

(If necessary copy and paste the following url into your browser address bar)

http://www.lighthouselibrary.com/read.php?sel=2586&searchfor=||KNOCH, ADOLPH E||&type=&what=author

[rodgertutt]

SEQUENTIAL LOGIC

Can God do anything He wishes? Yes. “All that Yahweh delights He does,

In the heavens and on earth, In the seas and every abyss” Ps. 135:6.

See Matt. 19:25, 26.

Does God wish all to be saved? Yes. “Who will have all men to be saved

and to come to the knowledge of the truth” 1 Tim. 2:4. See Acts 4:12.

Therefore, it is apparent that God is able to save what was lost, and

since He desires to save all that was lost, He has promised to do just

that. Phil. 2:9-11; Col. 1:20; 1 Cor. 15:20-28.

Faith in God’s promises,

And an acquaintance with His character and power,

KNOWING THE REAL JESUS

http://www.godfire.net/eby/godislove.html

and sequential logic,

and THE HISTORY OF THE EARLY CHURCH

http://hellbusters.8m.com/updcontents.html

all support universal reconciliation.

Wishful thinking has nothing to do with it.

[rodgertutt]

Why did you not, Rodger Tutt, call a spade a spade and your thread or topic, ‘An Assault on God's Election’?

Another possible title - to my observation - for your topic would be, ‘An Agitation for Religious Pluralism’.

My own preference for this discussion would be, 'Against the Scriptures on Grace', or, 'The Trouble Started with God'.

Here is good response, I think :-)

ANOTHER BRAND NEW EXCELLENT SHORT WRITING BY MARTIN ZENDER

"THE FLY IN THE JAR"

http://www.martinzender.com/ZWTF/ZWTF2.1.pdf

[rodgertutt]

Here is why I believe that eventually everyone will be saved, not just the first fruits of election.

God will have all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4)

It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved.

And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11).

Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of what He wants” if you like.

Because God says

"My counsel shall stand.

I will do all my pleasure

(the saving of all mankind is part of the pleasure that God wants)

Yea I have spoken it.

I will also bring it to pass.

I have purposed it.

I will also do it."

Isaiah 46:10,11

Job 23:13 “But He stands alone, and who can oppose Him?

He does whatever he pleases.

(the saving of all mankind is part of what He wants that pleases Him).

Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:

It will not return to me empty,

but will accomplish what I desire

and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

(the saving of all mankind is part of all of which God desires or wants)

So we see God does all His pleasure, He does whatever He pleases, and His word accomplishes that which He desires.

His pleasure, that which He desires and pleases Him is what He wants.

His will = What He wants

What does He want?

THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND

Why will it happen?

Because God Himself will see to it that it gets done.

Just like in the case of Lydia (whose heart the Lord opened, Acts 16:14) and Saul of Tarsus (Acts 9:1-8), our cooperation to be saved is the result, not the cause, of God laying hold on us by His sovereign grace and causing Jesus to be "choice" in our heart.

The timing of the salvation of everyone is under God's sovereign control.

God arranges everything so each person will be saved according to His perfect timing for each individual.

HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE - James Coram

CHOOSING WHAT IS CHOICE

biblical studies: His Achievement Are We - Part 9 - Choosing What Is Choice

http://concordant.org/expohtml/HisAchievement/HisAchievement009.html

"No one to whom Christ is not yet choice can choose Christ.

And Christ cannot be choice to anyone to whom He has not yet been made choice.

When He is made choice He becomes choice and so is choice; or to say the same thing, He is chosen.

This first act of the believer in which Christ is consciously chosen, is merely a consequence of his new mental preference which has been graciously granted to him by God."

[rodgertutt]

A VALUABLE LINK!

Richard Condon's library of writings by dozens of universal reconciliation writers.

The section called IN THE GARDEN is especially inspirational.

And THE MAIN LIBRARY is huge!

If necessary copy and paste the link into your browser

http://web.archive.org/liveweb/http://web.archive.org/web/20110713224225/http://gtft.org/

If the link doesn't open for you, click on the word "impatient"

ENJOY!

[rodgertutt]

An exposition in support of the Bible teaching universal salvation

WILL UNBELIEVERS BE ANNIHILATED? (chapters three and four)

(If necessary copy and paste the following url into your browser address bar)

http://www.lighthouselibrary.com/read.php?sel=2586&searchfor=||KNOCH, ADOLPH E||&type=&what=author

[Gibs]

There is many that would like to make the gate to Paradise so wide that the whole world and Satan and his angels could all get through.

But if that were the case, it wouldn't be Paradise, it would be the same old same old we are in now.

For me I've had enough of that! Hear Jesus and forget the well oiled orators of deception!

Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Mt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it .

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[rodgertutt]

"What About how the Bible says that those who do not believe will perish or be destroyed?" See

http://www.tentmaker.org/FAQ/perish.htm

THE STRAIT GATE

The language is entirely confined to the present.

"Lord, are there few that be 'saved'?" The literal rendering is: "Are those being saved few?" The question relates entirely to the number then, at that time that were entering the strait gate and accepting Christ.

But we know that sooner or later God will have (wants if you like) all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4)

It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved.

And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11).

Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of what He wants if you like.

Because God says

"My counsel shall stand.

I will do all my pleasure

(the saving of all mankind is part of the pleasure that God wants)

Yea I have spoken it.

I will also bring it to pass.

I have purposed it.

I will also do it."

Isaiah 46:10,11

Job 23:13 “But he stands alone, and who can oppose Him?

He does whatever he pleases.

(the saving of all mankind is part of what He wants that pleases Him).

Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:

It will not return to me empty,

but will accomplish what I desire

and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

(the saving of all mankind is part of all of which God desires or wants)

So we see God does all His pleasure, He does whatever He pleases, and His word accomplishes that which He desires.

His pleasure, that which He desires and pleases Him is what He wants.

His will = What He wants

What does He want?

THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND

Why will it happen?

Because God Himself will see to it that it gets done.

[rodgertutt]

There is many that would like to make the gate to Paradise so wide that the whole world and Satan and his angels could all get through.

But if that were the case, it wouldn't be Paradise, it would be the same old same old we are in now.

I believe that the reconciliation of Satan will be the greatest manifestation of God's grace in action among the celestials.

#109 - UNIVERSAL RECONCILIATION – MINNIE ALBERTSON

“The original scriptures taught final universal salvation; but translators usually rejected that theme. So they added to, or dropped words, to make the text conform to their wrong thinking. They could not eradicate the original theme; but we inherited their wrong thinking in our translations, and so we have the resulting direct contradictions. Unknown time periods they made endless.

Salvation is for angels also. ‘All things were created by Him, and for Him’ (Col. 1:16).

‘For Thy pleasure they are and were created (Rev. 4:11). So He ‘reconciles all things unto Himself, whether they be on earth, or things in the heavens (Col. 1:16-21).

Even the devil is not too evil to be corrected. Note who he belongs to, as well as those he deceives. ‘The deceived and the deceiver are His’ (Job 12:16). (end quote) (Job 12:16).

“God delights to reconcile all, whether those on the earth, or those in the heavens (Col. 1:20). Therefore there is no more reason to suppose that Satan is not included therein than that any other certain creature is not included therein. Therefore it must be that that notable creature who had rightly long been termed “the Adversary,” is very much included in the reconciliation of the universe, at which time this title (“Adversary” or “Satan”) necessarily will no longer apply, since he will be reconciled and be at peace.” (end quote)

Jim Coram, UNSEARCHABLE RICHES, March 2005.

“Ah, I long intently for that day when even the devil himself shall put away his pitchfork, hang up his horns, and come humbly and brokenly to the Father's house! Does that startle you? How else could it be in that glad day when the Christ has finally RECONCILED ALL THINGS IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH, including all the PRINCIPALITIES AND POWERS OF THE HEAVENLY SPHERE!” (end quote)

RECONCILIATION IN THE HEAVENS – J. Preston Eby

http://www.godfire.net/eby/reconcilehvns.html

THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL – PAUL SIEGVOLCK

“Col. 1: 16-20 teaches us the extent of the reconciliation made by Christ, namely, that it extends itself over the whole creation. Therefore the fallen angels must also necessarily have their share in it, for they do incontestably belong to the invisible things created by Christ, and consequently to all things including the things in the heavens.

‘Jehovah is good to all: and His tender mercies are over all His works.’ Psalm 145:9

In this passage we are plainly told that the mercy of God, or His tender love, does not only extend itself to men, but universally towards all creatures that have their being and stand in need of mercy; and consequently also towards the fallen angels; which tender love of God must necessarily at last effect or bring about the restoration of all corrupt creatures, for it is not a weak or faint, but an almighty love.” (end quote)

#197 – AVITUS and BASIL, A GRECIAN (approx. 410 A.D.) together taught

“Future torments are not endless; for although they are called everlasting, yet that word in the original Greek, does not, according to its etymology, and its frequent use, signify endless, but answers only to the duration of an age; so that every sinner, after the purification of his conscience, shall return into the unity of the body of Christ.

The devil himself will at length be saved, when all his wickedness shall have been subdued. (end quote)

#173 – ERSKINE’S SKETCHES OF CHURCH HISTORY records the words of John Gasper Christian Lavater.

“God is not gracious in time and cruel through eternity. Ascribe not to God, what in a human judge all would account a defect in wisdom and goodness, the punishing for the sake of punishing. It is enough my Creator, Thou art love. Love seeketh not her own; Thou seekest the happiness of all, and shouldst Thou not then find what Thou seekest? Shouldst Thou not be able to do what Thou willest?

My prayers are comprehensive. I embrace in my heart all men; present and future times, and nations, yea Satan himself. I present them all to God, with the warmest wishes that He will have mercy on them all.” (end quote)

#137 – CLOUDS AND SUNSHINE – J.S. Taylor

I cannot believe that any being will exist in any part of the universe, so steeped in guilt and anguish (no, not Satan himself), as to be beyond the redeeming love and healing power of the Creator.

Oh, no; on the contrary, I believe that in this mysterious, but divinely ordained conflict of good and evil, the powers of light are everywhere slowly but surely gaining the ascendancy over the powers of darkness, and that it will continue to be so, even unto the perfect day; yes, that perfect day, wherein all these blessed victories over sin and ignorance shall have been consummated, these transformations completed, and no solitary stain of folly, guilt, or grief, be left to mar the lustre of the universe.” (end quote)

#194 – Gregory of Nyssa (335-390)

What is the scope of St. Paul’s dissertations? That the nature of evil shall, at length, be wholly exterminated, and divine immortal goodness embrace within itself every rational creature; so that of all who were made by God, not one shall be excluded from His kingdom. All the viciousness that like a corrupt matter is mingled in things shall be dissolved and consumed in fire; and everything shall be restored to its pristine state of purity.

In 1Cor. 15:22-28, the apostle Paul declares the extinction of all sin, saying that God will be All in all. For God will be truly All in all only when no evil shall remain in the nature of things. All evil must at length, be entirely removed from everything, so that it shall no more exist. For such being the nature of sin, that it cannot exist without a corrupt motive, it must, of course, be perfectly dissolved and wholly destroyed, so that nothing can remain a receptacle of it, when all motive and influences shall spring from God alone.

As the devil assumed a fleshly shape in order to ruin human nature, so the Lord took flesh for the salvation of man; and thus He blesses not only him who was ruined, but him also who led him into perdition; so that He both delivers man from sin, and heals the author of sin himself.” (end quote)

#196 – COMMENTARY ON THE NEW TESTAMENT – Jerome (347-420 A.D.)

"In the end or consummation of things, all shall be restored to their original state, and be again united in one body. We cannot be ignorant that Christ’s blood benefited the angels and those who are in hell; though we know not the manner in which it produced such effects. The apostate angels shall become such as they were created; and man, who has been cast out of paradise, shall be restored thither again. And this shall be accomplished in such a way, that all shall be united together by mutual charity, so that the members will delight in each other, and rejoice in each other’s promotion.

The apostate angels, and the prince of this world, though now ungovernable, plunging themselves into the depths of sin, shall, in the end, embrace the happy dominion of Christ and His saints."

#112 - THE WAY TO SALVATION IN THE CHRISTIAN GOSPEL – ERNEST L. MARTIN

“The traditional interpretation of an everlasting hell fire for sinners is as wrong and as senseless as believing that a three dollar bill is legal tender.

Ultimate salvation is something that has been secured by Christ for all mankind without the works of man (either good or bad) being involved in the issue. Everyone will finally be saved and brought to a full knowledge of the truth of God. All humans will finally be forgiven for their sins and they will become reconciled to God. All things in the heavens, on earth and under the earth (the angels who are kept in chains in the bowels of the earth) will one day proclaim the Lordship of Christ to the glory of God the Father.

But it will not only be all humans who are reconciled to God (now that God has reconciled Himself to mankind). The reconciliation will reach out to embrace all the hostile powers which have been out of harmony with God over the centuries. There is prophesied, according to Paul, a full reconciliation between all the antagonistic beings throughout the universe. Even they will be reconciled amongst themselves,

Between themselves and mankind, and between themselves and God the Father (Col. 1:20). All grievances, both divine and human, are disposed of through the life and death of Christ our Saviour. Peace has been, or will be established between all hostile parties throughout the universe.

[rodgertutt]

A recently published book that shows that the Bible, in its original language, does not teach eternal torment, or even annihilation.

Read the reviews first – just a suggestion.

http://www.hopebeyondhell.net/what-others-are-saying/

HOPE BEYOND HELL - GERRY BEAUCHEMIN

http://hopebeyondhell.net/

It can be downloaded FREE and read online.

[Guest]

All of those men's opinions put together, doesn't change one word of what the Bible actually says. Which is what I have to go by. :)

[phkrause]

All of those men's opinions put together, doesn't change one word of what the Bible actually says. Which is what I have to go by.

Exactly, I wish that all could be saved too, but if that were the case why go through all this pain and suffering?

[rodgertutt]

Originally Posted By: RLH

All of those men's opinions put together, doesn't change one word of what the Bible actually says. Which is what I have to go by.

Exactly, I wish that all could be saved too, but if that were the case why go through all this pain and suffering?

What we URs understand that "the Bible actually says."

One Step Out of Hell; One Step Short of Glory

ETERNAL DEATH ANNIHILATION?

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/EternalDeath.html

I believe that sooner or later, God is going to eventually transform all suffering into something better for everyone that it happened.

Here's how Ray Prinzing puts it.

“Modern theology has so long circumvented our thinking and teaching to the biased idea that God will save only part of His creation and so limited His redemptive powers that we have forgotten that with God all things are possible and shall be wrought out in due time. God has a definite schedule for saving His creatures, and there is nothing that can withstand His purpose.

Sin was allowed for wise ends, and only after these have been secured will sin cease to exist. It is all a part of God’s purpose of the ages and redemption’s glory will only shine out the more after the plan’s execution. God never allows sin to go beyond His transforming power. God always has everything under perfect control.”

“ ‘And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD.” 1John 4:14.

‘Who will have ALL MEN to be saved, and to come into a knowledge of the truth’ 1Tim. 2:4.

This is not a pitting of man’s will against the will of God as some try to teach, with man’s will able to resist and hold out until God cannot change him, but must throw him into some eternal cesspool to be tormented. NAY – for we read that ‘He is working out all things after the counsel of His own will,’ and man cannot disannul that which HE has willed. It is God’s will that all shall come to Christ. He is the propitiation for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD. Why then shall we be so foolish as to dispute the immutability of His truth?”

“God is sovereign, and He controls all the interaction of evil and good, and causes all to redound to His own glory. It is not – what was lost by the fall was to be regained by redemption, BUT by the interaction of FALL AND REDEMPTION, God achieves greater, wiser, nobler, and higher goals than by the Adamic race remaining in its pristine state.

Evil and good are synchronized to accomplish God’s will and purpose, so that the ultimate goal shall reveal all evil transformed back into good, and all negation cancelled out by GOOD. Evil is allowed for wise ends, and when these are secured it must cease to exist, for God will restore all things into good. HE controls all the interaction between evil and good until His purpose of the ages is fulfilled. Then shall God be All in all.”

“We would not minimize the judgments of God, but the more the spirit of revelation unfolds the truth, the more we see God’s judgments in proper perspective, that they are remedial, corrective in their nature and used to bring forth a state of righteousness. They shall not be executed in unholy vengeance, for MERCY shall balance the score. God’s judgments are ever tempered with mercy, and when they have fulfilled their purpose, the judgments end. Mercy will outlast all the judgments, and will rejoice in the ultimate restoration of all that was perverted, corrupt, and evil.

Mercy can operate on the basis of justice because Christ has gathered the whole into His own heart, and suffered to reconcile all to Himself.”

[debbym]

Never heard of this universal reconciliation theory, it is not Biblical.

Satan will never repent, every revelation of the Character of God left him harder. This is the mystery of iniquity.

Human beings can go past repentance, they can settle into a position that will not change.

Jesus revealed the character of God every day, then ultimately on the Cross. He died to offer repentance to all who were willing when they found themselves turned away from God. Jesus took the position we are in without an intercessor, and did Die. His was the first eternal death in the universe. His death showed the actual consequence of sin is death. The angels fallen and unfallen and all the rest of the habitants of the universe could clearly see what human beings could hardly recognize or understand.

Manasseh the most evil king Israel ever had, far worse then any, when he was suffering the consequences of his sin, did repent, and was fully restored and His kingdom restored.

if we refuse to repent then we will die.

11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

[Stan]

and I agree...