BibleOnly Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 Paul at one point explains that it needs to be "translated" to be meaningful. It seems to be be about edification and understanding. The original manifestation of speaking in tongues in Act 2 brought about understanding. Everyone spoke in their own language and those touched by the Holy Spirit heard it in their own language. Some onlookers that had not received the Holy Spirit, only heard nonsense and babbling that they thought was drunkenness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasd Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 >>Thankyou! I have been baptised in the Holy Spirit but I don't speak in tongues.<< Beg pardon, but by observation – you do! Without quantifying it – Writ informs that it derives from the abundance of the heart – whether fair or foul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q.E.D. Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I think I will pass on this one. . . [quote name='BibleOnly}I'm sure you will' date=' because you're allowed to use 'logic' to attack God's word, but I am not allowed to use it to refute the stories you make up [/quote'] Quick call the "Fruits of the Spirit" Police on BibleOnly. . .I have been accused attacking God's Word and of making stories up by a "Christian that speaks in tongues. "What are you in for?. . .Making up Christian stories." Q.E.D. Quote Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q.E.D. Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 >>Thankyou! I have been baptised in the Holy Spirit but I don't speak in tongues.<< Beg pardon, but by observation – you do! Without quantifying it – Writ informs that it derives from the abundance of the heart – whether fair or foul Welcome jasd, To the BibleOnly fight room. . . Q.E.D. Quote Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleOnly Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 Bible Only Sez: How do you know ? Q.E.D. Responds: I told you, "I don't speak in tongues. I think I would know if I did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted December 7, 2011 Moderators Share Posted December 7, 2011 How do you CHOOSE to pray in the Spirit ? What does it mean to "pray in the Spirit"? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleOnly Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 Originally Posted By: BibleOnly How do you CHOOSE to pray in the Spirit ? What does it mean to "pray in the Spirit"? Good question. Does it mean anything at all ? Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. What does this mean ? 1Cr 14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 1Cr 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. Paul says that prayer in the Spirit is different to prayer we understand, and he does both. This is the only definition of prayer in the Spirit in the Bible. Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; Prayer in the Spirit is something that should be part of all our prayer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted December 7, 2011 Moderators Share Posted December 7, 2011 Please answer these questions about speaking in "tongues": 1) Does speaking in "tongues" make those who do so better people and better Christians? 2) Does speaking in "tongues" make any difference in terms of salvation? 3) Does speaking in "tongues" lead to a closer and better walk with Christ? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted December 7, 2011 Moderators Share Posted December 7, 2011 Thanks for you response. I'll write full replies later this evening after I get back home. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q.E.D. Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Originally Posted By: Q.E.D. Bible Only Sez: How do you know ? Q.E.D. Responds: I told you, "I don't speak in tongues. I think I would know if I did. So you know you have the Spirit because you don't have the manifestation of the Spirit? Neither does my dog, do you think he has the Holy Spirit ? No. I know I have the Spirit because I was baptised in the name of the Holy Spirit. What part of that do you NOT understand? Has your dog been baptised in the name of the Holy Spirit? "They were howling in the isles of the church. . ."Q.E.D. Quote Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleOnly Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 Please answer these questions about speaking in "tongues": 1) Does speaking in "tongues" make those who do so better people and better Christians? 2) Does speaking in "tongues" make any difference in terms of salvation? 3) Does speaking in "tongues" lead to a closer and better walk with Christ? 1 - depends how you mean. It DOES build us in our faith, and keep us in God's love ( Jude 20-21 ), but, your wording of the question leads me to say that it works in reverse. Someone looking to be a better Christian will of course pray in the Spirit, and prayer in the Spirit alone will make no difference if the person does not also seek to be a better Christian in how they live. 2 - Every Christian speaks in tongues, so, yes. If you have not spoken in tongues you're like the people in Acts 8 and 19. That the Spirit is given with evidence is the reason that 'have you recieved the Holy Ghost since you believed' is a question that makes sense 3 - No. It leads to the only possible walk with Christ. People who don't have the Holy Spirit are none of His, according to Romans. A strange statement if we have no way of knowing we have the Spirit, except that we claim to be His. Many people are like the foolish virgins, with the lamp and not the oil. As God's law is perfect, following the Bible without the Spirit still makes your life better, but it does not lead to salvation as it's not done in the power of God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleOnly Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 No. I know I have the Spirit because I was baptised in the name of the Holy Spirit. What part of that do you NOT understand? Has your dog been baptised in the name of the Holy Spirit? "They were howling in the isles of the church. . ."Q.E.D. I just wish you'd stop making up stories and refer to scripture. Where does the Bible say that what you're claiming is true ? Why would Philip know to call for John and Peter, if he knew that this incantation during baptism was required ? Why does Acts 8 not say they were rebaptised in the correct name ? Where does the Bible remotely support what you're saying ? If I did baptise my dog in the name of the Holy Spirit, would that mean he had the Spirit ? If I grabbed a random stranger off the street and did that to them against their will, would they ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q.E.D. Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Oh, really? I didn’t know that! And just how can one tell if a believer is a Christian or not in an immediate way? I thought all believers were Christians and all Christians were believers. Bible Only Sez: And that is why I pointed out Acts 8 and 19. In Acts 19, Paul asks 'did you receive the Holy Spirit since you believed' ? Only later does he ask what they had believed. So, he says they are not the same. Acts 8 shows they are not the same. The people believed and did not have the Spirit. So, the Bible disagrees with you. Q.E.D. Responds: I don't think so BibleOnly Sez: Then why did Paul ask what he did in Acts 19? Q.E.D. Responds: Ok I'll bite. What did Paul say in Acts 19? "Suddenly it all collapsed. . ." Q.E.D. Quote Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q.E.D. Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 ROTFL - others here have said the Sabbath is the sign of the Spirit Q.E.D. Responds: Do you believe everything someone tells you? BibleOnly Sez: Now you're being obtuse. I believe that what people say, reflects their position. Q.E.D. Responds: Hmmm. . .methinks it's THEIR position not necessarily mine. "He said, she said. . ." Q.E.D. Quote Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleOnly Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 Act 19:1 ¶ And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. How does this make sense if believing means you have the Spirit ? Where does it say he baptised them before they received the Spirit ? This is also true of Acts 2 and 10, baptism came AFTER receiving the Spirit. Nothing about your claim is based on the Bible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleOnly Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 Originally Posted By: BibleOnly ROTFL - others here have said the Sabbath is the sign of the Spirit Q.E.D. Responds: Do you believe everything someone tells you? BibleOnly Sez: Now you're being obtuse. I believe that what people say, reflects their position. Q.E.D. Responds: Hmmm. . .methinks it's THEIR position not necessarily mine. "He said, she said. . ." Q.E.D. Which is why I stated it in more general terms, because I've been fielding comments from all comers, I've not necessarily taken notes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q.E.D. Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Originally Posted By: Q.E.D. No. I know I have the Spirit because I was baptised in the name of the Holy Spirit. What part of that do you NOT understand? Has your dog been baptised in the name of the Holy Spirit? "They were howling in the isles of the church. . ."Q.E.D. I just wish you'd stop making up stories and refer to scripture. I believe the Bible. "19 Go ye therefore, and *teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"(Matt 28:19) "Your wish has come true. . ." Q.E.D. Quote Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q.E.D. Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Originally Posted By: Q.E.D. No. I know I have the Spirit because I was baptised in the name of the Holy Spirit. What part of that do you NOT understand? Has your dog been baptised in the name of the Holy Spirit? "They were howling in the isles of the church. . ."Q.E.D. If I did baptise my dog in the name of the Holy Spirit, would that mean he had the Spirit ? If I grabbed a random stranger off the street and did that to them against their will, would they ? I don't know. Give it a try and see what happens. "Going where no man has gone before. . ." Q.E.D. Quote Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleOnly Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 I don't disagree with this. I just don't think that this means you need to say the right words for someone to be saved. I don't believe that you can invent stories based on this verse to totally change what other verses say. In Acts 2, 8, 10 and 19, there's record of unbaptised people receiving the Spirit. There is no verse that says we can know we have the Spirit because we've been baptised. Acts 8 does not say the people were rebaptised. Acts 19 doesn't even say they were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleOnly Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 I don't know. Give it a try and see what happens. "Going where no man has gone before. . ." Q.E.D. If I grabbed a stranger off the street and forced them to be baptised, how would I know if they had the Spirit ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted December 8, 2011 Members Share Posted December 8, 2011 I recall hearing of a modern day story of just such an example of "speaking in tongues". I believe it happened to H.M.S. Richards, Jr. at a camp meeting. He delivered a stirring sermon in English without a translator. Afterwards a Hispanic lady came up to him to thank him for his message that was so very timely and meaningful for her at that point in her life. I believe the story was that she either had to speak to him with a translator or spoke with very limited English. And she complimented him on his perfect Spanish and noted he didn't even have a hint of an accent. That's what it is about to me. And lesser manifestations are the many people gifted with fluency in multiple languages. Excellent post Tom. For me it almost seems that instead of calling it the gift of tongues, they should've called it the gift of "hearing." Because it always seemed to me that the one person talked in his own language and the other guy who didn't speak the language was able to understand. But none the less I agree with you. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleOnly Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 I guess the question is, why was it not called that ? Is that perhaps a clue that you're mistaken in your beliefs ? Why does Paul indicate in 1 Cor 14 that tongues should only be used with the gift of interpretation, if it's up to God to give the 'gift of hearing' to people who don't understand what was said ? Your interpretation makes that whole chapter a nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q.E.D. Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Originally Posted By: Q.E.D. I don't know. Give it a try and see what happens. "Going where no man has gone before. . ." Q.E.D. If I grabbed a stranger off the street and forced them to be baptised, how would I know if they had the Spirit ? You tell me. You're the one that claims to know. "I grabbed him and he punched me out. . ." Q.E.D. Quote Satanic Verses-Salman Rushdie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleOnly Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 You're the one claiming that I can force people in to the Kingdom. It's clear to me that you have no respect for the Word of God, being happy to abuse it for the sake of trying to string me along. That makes you a complete waste of my time, so, conversation over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Talk about someone who does not want to see clear evidence from the Bible! I remember when I was a kid my step father’s parents belonged to a Pentecostal church and we went there one time. During the service some of the people went up front and started speaking in that ‘gibberish language’ that you speak so highly of – I’ve never been so scared in my life. We never went back there ever again! Speaking in tongues is speaking in a different language. To believe that tongues is some ‘gibberish language’ only diminishes our faith in God and makes him out to be someone with lesser intelligence than a human being. The tongues that you speak of come from Satan not God. Great post Cheddar! Now that's the real truth! Can someone tell me how the Holy Spirit can dwell in someone who is sinful? Isn't that like a house divided? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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