Confrontation or Collabortation? (Join Us for the Journey)

[Woody]

Again Gibs - I will ask you what parts of the 28 Fundamentals you oppose and how you would replace them.

And what parts of Rick Warrens book you referenced would you oppose and how you would change it.

[Bravus]

Haven't read the entire thread, Woody, but it seems like we'd need to get past confrontation with our fellow SDAs before we could even think about collaboration with our other Christian brothers and sisters...

The whole passage on The Body (no, not Elle McPherson) in scripture is relevant here, IMO.

[Woody]

Quote:

Haven't read the entire thread, Woody, but it seems like we'd need to get past confrontation with our fellow SDAs before we could even think about collaboration with our other Christian brothers and sisters...

Excellent Comment

WE have much to learn. Some are not even at the point where they want to collaborate with either one.

Some refuse to collaborate with those that think differently. Some refuse to collaborate with men. And some refuse to collaborate with WOMEN. But God is no respector of persons. He loves each of us.

[phkrause]

Again Gibs - I will ask you what parts of the 28 Fundamentals you oppose and how you would replace them.

And what parts of Rick Warrens book you referenced would you oppose and how you would change it.

I have to agree with you Woody, every post seems to be condemn, condemn, condemn with no apparent solution. You know how that saying goes? If you have no solution than you are part of the problem! Something like that. :(

[phkrause]

Haven't read the entire thread, Woody, but it seems like we'd need to get past confrontation with our fellow SDAs before we could even think about collaboration with our other Christian brothers and sisters...

The whole passage on The Body (no, not Elle McPherson) in scripture is relevant here, IMO.

[Neil D]

I'm grindin an axe alright, to wake up a sleeping church I used to be part of but refuses to wake up.

I will say this much, Gibs...I have been a part of an Adventist ghetto. I don't reckon that they were anymore asleep than you were...but they didn't do much....except complain...

I've found that those who are alive in Christ, are active church members, who question God, and yet, keep talking to Him. They ask some really hard questions...and life doesn't get easier, but the trust between us and Him continues to grow...

Just my observation....

[Gibs]

Hamilton,

Not complaining, I have nothing to complain of. Maybe I am like a voice crying out in the wilderness of these last days. It's something like it's time to weed out the garden.

I did not get called out into a "ghetto" but to stay in His Remnant church. The one the gates of hell have not prevailed against yet. Ekklesia, called out ones.

Yes we ask Jesus and He takes us to His Word and we find the answer and are fed. We ask Him, show me the way, He says, follow me and no man.

We ask Him, protect me from Satan and his angels and deception, and He says, abide in me by surrendering all and I will come and abide in you and you are safe and with may Divine Nature you can be the victor over Satan and his sophistries and all sin. I said, Amen, I know that for sure as I trust in you fully.

He only is who I follow,

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Then Paul tells me right,

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

Just to be clear, you can follow Jesus no matter what circumstances you find yourself in. Paul told Ceasers slaves to return to their master and serve him as the new Christians they were. The Waldenses followed Jesus into the mountains and caves facing death. People follow Jesus in prisons. You can follow Jesus in every way to the highest standards within the Seventh-day Adventist church as well. There is no call from Jesus, the bible or Sister White to abandon our post. Personally, I think they that have abandoned the church to form their own independant church, group, movement or off shoot have taken the easy way out, the broad and smooth road. They have suffered the promised delusion God said He would bring upon them, so that they would believe a lie.

I'll stick to the narrow way myself.

Note that Adventist self supporting workers, those who HAVE established a school or group or hosptial or better living center as medical missionaries continue to work closely with the church. While remaining separate. They are members of the Seventh-day Adventist church, they pay their tithe and offerings to the visible body of believers. They worship on Sabbath in an officially recognized Seventh-day Adventist church. They support themselves and are living examples of the blue print Sister White was given. A standing rebuke against those who have left the church and formed their own independant group. It IS possible to be "separate" and yet a part of the "body of believers".

[Gibs]

ClubV12,

The way of the structure you are in is just about as wide as all the other so called protestant ones out there, narrowed just a little bit by the Sabbath is all. There isn't much she can get any wider on now.

You are not recognizing what has come into the structure and who now you are following. The things that have come in are not of Jesus, they are from below.

Collaborate or confront, I must confront all that today are 501c3 compliant. I have an eye single to follow Him who is Truth the Way and The Life.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

Gibs says.

"I must confront all that today are 501c3 compliant...."

Well thats an interesting, it appears that you consider any non-profit group or organization that is 501c3, as being led by the devil.

How sad for those who only see darkness where others see light. Beholding we become changed. We can become bitter and confrontational and choose to dwell on the dark side of things, or we can choose to come into the light.

[Gibs]

ClubV12,

To be free to teach all that must be taught in the congregations is a must, when a structure of "church" becomes 501c3 compliant they lose that freedom and so means the first allegiance is to another master before Jesus Christ.

The structure of church is prevented from codemning some things of the world to it's congregation that must be condemned. Which actually shows it to also be on that wide road of the world.

There is many very good ministries out there now that have dropped the compliancy that they may condemn what God would have made known is not to be.

For one they came in and told ole Texe Marrs he couldn't preach several things and he told them, I must preach as God would have me to do first, take the tax exempt status, I work for God.

All the pastors in the SDA structure know what they dare not hit on to any solid extent. Take away the tax exempt status and they could. The PTB tells us "you can't say that" it hurts someones lifestyle or religion or whatever.

You got to know you will be prevented from saying the Sabbath must be kept. It's OK to condemn Jesus but be careful not to condemn in the world of deceivers.

The true way always will be condemning to the world and all false teachings, and this is what the Satanic world is weeding out, the true way and the truth which is His Word and Himself. But no they make their own "truth" which of no man is truth a foundation, for all men are liars.

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[CoAspen]

A lot of condemnation with not much in the way of facts. If someone wishes to 'preach' a different gospel than the one recognized by the SDA church, then by all means go and preach, outside the church!! There are many who wish to preach a different gospel or more pure or whatever. The SDA church has its own guidlines and that is the way it is. It does one little good to bang against the wall simply they want to do it different. Dust thy feet and travel one.....I believe was the message in the NT. Different circumstances in your case but still good advice!!

[Gibs]

CoAspen,

Question is are you for confrontation or collaboration?

I just posted a letter that just came into me and you will find it in "theological townhall" all should read, it is of great concern to all SDA's.

Awake, Awake, Agitate, Agitate to the truth of all things.

His Blessings.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Truth is over-rated.

[CoAspen]

The truth is out there.

F.Muldur

[Woody]

The truth is out there.

F.Muldur

way out

[ClubV12]

Gib's your long on insinuation, suggestions, complaints and implications but VERY short on facts.

What subject(s) is it that Adventists preachers are not allowed to preach on? What issues have they been stopped from addressing by the Fedederal or State Government?

Perhaps taxes? Do you believe it is a sin to pay taxes to the State or Federal Government? I thought it was interesting that Dr. Rich stated a drivers license was not required in the United States and that he had been driving without one for decades. I wonder if either of you pay taxes as a form of religious protest?

CoAspen was right on the money about WHO we should be preaching too! I have consistently found that those who have left the church and declared it to be in apostasy primarily attempt to preach/teach members of the church. The commission of the church is to reach the world with mankinds last message of hope. It's not to reach the church itself. Quit worrying about the church and start worrying about the commission, God will take care of His church, it's not your problem.

[Woody]

Gib's your long on insinuation, suggestions, complaints and implications but VERY short on facts.

What subject(s) is it that Adventists preachers are not allowed to preach on? What issues have they been stopped from addressing by the Fedederal or State Government?

Perhaps taxes? Do you believe it is a sin to pay taxes to the State or Federal Government? I thought it was interesting that Dr. Rich stated a drivers license was not required in the United States and that he had been driving without one for decades. I wonder if either of you pay taxes as a form of religious protest?

CoAspen was right on the money about WHO we should be preaching too! I have consistently found that those who have left the church and declared it to be in apostasy primarily attempt to preach/teach members of the church. The commission of the church is to reach the world with mankinds last message of hope. It's not to reach the church itself. Quit worrying about the church and start worrying about the commission, God will take care of His church, it's not your problem.

Excellent. Well said.

[phkrause]

Gib's your long on insinuation, suggestions, complaints and implications but VERY short on facts.

What subject(s) is it that Adventists preachers are not allowed to preach on? What issues have they been stopped from addressing by the Fedederal or State Government?

Perhaps taxes? Do you believe it is a sin to pay taxes to the State or Federal Government? I thought it was interesting that Dr. Rich stated a drivers license was not required in the United States and that he had been driving without one for decades. I wonder if either of you pay taxes as a form of religious protest?

CoAspen was right on the money about WHO we should be preaching too! I have consistently found that those who have left the church and declared it to be in apostasy primarily attempt to preach/teach members of the church. The commission of the church is to reach the world with mankinds last message of hope. It's not to reach the church itself. Quit worrying about the church and start worrying about the commission, God will take care of His church, it's not your problem.

[Gibs]

I suggest you who want to know what 501c3 compliant church can't preach against, you only need to find out what they, the irs told Texe Marrs what he dared not to preach about, he can tell you the things "you can't say that". I was banned from a website for bringing one of the things out clearly and was banned no warning, not one was given me. So you will have to get by without me running the risk here.

The only thing in this world kosher to condemn is True Christianity and Jesus Christ.

Have fun condemning me, it's OK as I expect it, as my message isn't smooth things for itching ears here in the last time when everything that can be made of no relevance is made so today. We are here in this present time and this includes the great majority.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

Trying to wake up a sleeping church that sees no wrongs in it when it isn't far behind the popular Sunday ones. Allow EGW,

"Point after point of truth should be investigated; for there is no limitation to the truth of God, and in its study a most lively interest should be felt by both teachers and pupils, that they may know what God hath said. For years the voice of God has been saying to us, “Agitate, agitate, agitate.” Study every point of truth, that you may know for yourselves what is truth in distinction from error. Let students search for themselves, that they may know the deep things of God. Let this work be done in the Spirit of Christ. Put no restriction upon the students. {TSS 55.2}

In searching the Scriptures there is need of great humility of mind and contrition of heart, of seeking earnestly unto God. Those who come in a lowly spirit, seeking for truth, will be aided in their search by the angels of God. {TSS 56.1}

The Lord will raise up men to bear the message of truth to the world and to His people. If those in responsible positions do not move onward in the opening providences of God, bearing an appropriate message for this time, the words of warning will be given to others who will be faithful to their trust. Even youthful Christians will be chosen to “cry aloud and spare not.” {TSS 56.2}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

Brother Gibs, I DON'T want to take a track that is "condeming you", but I DO feel a responsibility to provide an alternate view, a balanced view, of your theology and the Adventist theology.

My definition of the "church" vs yours, for instance. A quote that I feel is out of context. A call to leave the church, I must oppose, with pen and voice. You are giving what you feel is the straight testimony, as am I. The readers will have to decide, they should understand the issues on both sides.

The ONLY subject that comes to mind that the Government would be concerned about is anyone preaching or teaching that we should not pay taxes of some kind. I do not support that idea, I think it is a moral requirement and appropriate for Christians to render unto Ceaser what it is Ceasers. What the Governments do with that money, I may not approve, I may wish to voice my concern. I may wish to vote for or against some issues. I may NOT in good faith stop paying taxes because I don't approve. That same principle applies to tithe. I am rendering unto God that which belongs to Him already. If I don't like where the tithe money is being used, that is not an excuse to stop paying it. I may protest what I feel is the improper use. Within the church I may use my vote in some way to better guide it. With pen and voice I may raise the issue. But my offering, my tithe is to God, it's His money. Whoa unto those who misuse it, that is between them and God. Likewise, I may not like what I see in the church, but I have a responsibility to support the church regardless and I will, regardless of how it may appear. It's God's church, He IS in control, my mission is to stay with the church and do the best I can no matter what the conditions may be.

As it concerns Texe Marrs and his followers, I'm not interested in the "conspiracy theories", "illumanati" and other dark secrects "exposed" such have to offer. I will not spend my time dwelling on the darkness and the negative when there is light and beauty I prefer to behold.

[Gibs]

No, No it is not about taxes at all, it's about peoples and lifestyles and who the world holds in esteem

The Present letter I posted, Please do take time to read it carefully and thoughtfully. It is from some of the highly concerned ones in the church hoping for a real reformation.

I only post it that you who are not realizing these things brought out are from voices other than mine and are very, very true.. It is very very serious. Do it for heavens sake I plead with you.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Tom Wetmore]

Read about it here - Texe Marrs

I seriously doubt it was about 501©(3) status that puts this guy on the government radar...

If you wish to be taken seriously here, I would suggest a different guy be offered as an example for us to consider.

[CoAspen]

Delusional at best!! But that is what many people would rather believe in, not the truth, which is just ordinary! Poor guy. Needs a good Dr.

[ClubV12]

Paging Dr. Rich,,,, Dr. "good" Rich pick up the "White" phone please.