A Must Read Letter That Just Came In To Me

[Gibs]

This is a must read for all loyal SDA's. It just came in to me, I wish it had of earlier, it is long but SDA's you must read this. This has been dicussed here some and all should take hold of this.

AllSubject: A very informative letter!

A letter circulating that you might be interested in reading. October 27, 2011 118 SE 6th Street College Place, WA 99324 Robert Folkenberg, Jr., President Upper Columbia Conference of & nbsp; Seventh-day Adventists 3715 South Grove Road Spokane, WA 99224 Cc: Max Torkelson II, Dan Jackson, Ted Wilson We are a group of Seventh-day Adventist church members in the Walla Walla Valley deeply concerned with what is sweeping into our Walla Walla University and valley churches. We do not wish to remain a silent majority. It is true that we are asleep in the Laodicean Church, that many of us long for a more vibrant, living relationship with the Lord. It is true that a head knowledge of Biblical doctrines is not enough to sustain us. Religion has to get down into the heart. It seems there are presently two paths of revival going on in the Adventist church, one backed by the & nbsp; Bible and the other a mix of Bible and ancient mysticism (paganism), New Age, Catholicism, Eastern religions, Buddhism, Zen masters, etc. It is the second that causes much concern for the mainline Adventist.

There are good reasons for the concerns we are stating in this document. This last (third) quarter of 2011, we studied in our Adult Sabbath School Study Guide the result of God's people mixing the devil's lies into their religion. God has not changed His opinion today: syncretism is still dangerous and deadly. The second stream is taking place at Andrews University (see copy of enclosed blog) and now Walla Walla University and Church. In July Pastor Alex Bryan introduced the new Associate Pastor, Emily M. Flottmann, who will be leading out in "Spiritual Formation".& nbsp; In his sermon that day he used the words "Spiritual Formation, mysticism, mystical,” etc. At one time during the July sermon, he referred to Ellen G. White as a mystic and suggested that we should be reading from outside sources. We are very concerned about the way these ideas will be presented to impressionable college students, as well as to younger children in their formative years.

Parents send their children here in good faith and pay thousands of dollars so that they will be instructed in the truth. What will be their anguish when they discover these students have been indoctrinated in spiritual sophistries? On September 11, 2011, we wrote Pastor Alex Bryan a letter voicing our concerns, and that letter is enclosed with this document. We also sent him three books from our ABC: The Omega Rebellion: What Every Adventist needs to Know...Now by Rick Howard, A Time of Departing by Ray Yungen, and Faith Undone by Roger Oakland with the request in the letter that he prayerfully read them and contact us. He responded that he would not have time to see us for three weeks because of his schedule. He requested that a group of people meet with him in his office by appointment. We have not done so because statements he made in his October 15 Sabbath sermon and then again at a Walla Walla Adventist Forum in the afternoon (see enclosed DVD) convinced us that there was no chance of convincing him of the dangers of his plan.& nbsp; People who attended the events described his demeanor as "cocky, arrogant, showing a who-cares attitude,possibly because he seems to have support from the ministerial staff at the University." He stated in his talks that he has had numerous emails, visits to his office, etc. objecting to the Spiritual Formation project and that "He has not lost two minutes of sleep over it; it is a non-issue."& nbsp; If this is truly a non-issue, why are so many mainline Adventists concerned about it? & nbsp; He said that the Adventist denomination was perceived by non-Adventists to be "elitists". Since when have we chosen to worry about what the other churches think about us and our connection to Christ?

He also said that we should be looking to God and not looking to see what Satan is doing and that we should be careful in attacking "Christ's Bride". It seems incongruent that one goes to Satan's ground to incorporate the devil's theories into God's Bride and then expects His people to not notice or object. We are not attempting to attack the Bride, but the pagan philosophies which are taking over the Bride. Pastor Bryan defended the use of Richard J. Foster's books knowing full well that Foster is a Quaker mystic, the head of Renovare, an organization whose goal is to introduce evangelicals to contemplative spirituality. Foster borrowed many of the principles in his book, Celebration of Discipline: The Path to Spiritual Growth from the Desert Fathers (mystics in Egypt of the third and fourth centuries) and from Ignatius Loyola’s Spiritual Exercises. Pastor Bryan produced a pile of books, including some by Brennan Manning, a former Catholic priest, which he recommended for the spiritual journey. Steps to Christ was not among them. We are solemnly warned against forsaking Biblical truth for the broken cisterns of worldly theories (see Jeremiah 2:13).& nbsp; He used the term “Spiritual Formation” in his sermon that Sabbath. Because of opposition, the name has been changed to Spiritual Development, but they are the same sophistries. It was argued that the opposition is a question of semantics only.

It was noted that only two people at the Forum dared to voice questions, but they were quickly dismissed. The consensus of our group was that unless he contacts us there is no value in engaging over the issue. We need to go to a higher level for he will not respond to the members of his church or any other members in the Walla Walla Valley churches. The Eastgate Seventh-day Adventist Church has been offering Spiritual Formation classes in a weekly small-group meeting for about a year. They have studied books by Jan Johnson, who holds a Doctor of Ministry in Ignatian spirituality and spiritual direction, and are currently studying Thirsting for God: Spiritual Refreshment for the Sacred Journey, by Gary L. Thomas. When approached the teacher of the class and the pastor said they don’t teach it in a way contrary to Adventism, and there is nothing wrong with Bible study and meditation. We are deeply concerned because Ellen White told us that before Jesus Christ would return, there would be an Omega based upon the Alpha (Kellogg’s pantheistic movement) but the Omega would be so much worse that she "trembled" when it was shown to her. The Omega will have the same base but will be far more dangerous. Be not deceived; many will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. We have now before us the alpha of this danger.

The omega will be of a most startling nature. (1 Selected Messages 197)…I knew that the omega would follow in a little while; and I trembled for our people. I knew that I must warn our brethren and sisters not to enter into controversy over the presence and personality of God. (203) & nbsp;  The experience of the past will be repeated. In the future, Satan’s superstitions will assume new forms. Errors will be presented in a pleasing and flattering manner. False theories, clothed with garments of light, will be presented to God’s people. Thus Satan will try to deceive, if possible, the very elect. Most seducing influences will be exerted; minds will be hypnotized. & nbsp;  Corruptions of every type, similar to those existing among the antediluvians, will be brought in to take minds captive. The exaltation of nature as God, the unrestrained license of the human will, the counsel of the ungodly—these Satan uses as agencies to bring about certain ends. He will employ the power of mind over mind to carry out his designs. The most sorrowful thought of all is that under his deceptive influence men will have<BR>a form of godliness, without having a real connection with God…Many are even now feeding upon the deceptive morsels of error.    Satanic agencies are clothing false theories in an attractive garb, even as Satan in the Garden of Eden concealed his identity from our first parents by speaking through the serpent. These agencies are instilling into human minds that which in reality is deadly error. The hypnotic influence of Satan will rest upon those who turn from the plain word of God to pleasing fables.    It is those who have had the most light that Satan most assiduously seeks to ensnare. He knows that if he can deceive them, they will, under his control, clothe sin with garments of righteousness, and lead many astray. (8 Testimonies 293-294) Adventists are not the only Protestants that are worried about the Spiritual Formation message that is fast sweeping the entire Protestant and Catholic world.   There are at least two other books written about this problem by other Protestant authors, A Time of Departing by Ray Yungen and Faith Undone by Roger Oakland. Yungen defines the difference between the problems of the past and what is happening now.

The difference between pantheism and panentheism is explained in A Time of Departing by Ray Yungen, page 29: A highly respected source, The Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, defines panentheism as a worldview that combines “the strengths of classic theism with the strengths of classic pantheism.”  With panentheism you still have a personal God (theism) coupled with God's pervasive presence in all creation (pantheism). & nbsp; In other words, with panentheism God is both a personality and an all encompassing substance as opposed to God being an impersonal substance that incorporates all of creation as found in pantheism. & nbsp;  The credibility of A Time of Departing rests on whether or not panentheism has a legitimate place in orthodox Christianity. This is a vital<BR>question because panentheism is the foundational worldview among those who engage in mystical prayer.  Ken Kaisch, a(n) Episcopal priest and a teacher of mystical prayer, made this very clear in his book, Finding God, where he noted: Meditation is a process through which we quiet the mind and the emotions and enter directly into the experience of the Divine....there is a deep connection between us....God is in each of us. & nbsp;& nbsp; Here lies the core of panentheism: God is in everything and everything is in God. The only difference between pantheism and panentheism is how God is in everything.

It is no wonder that E.G. White "trembled for our people!!" If God is IN each of us, we have no need for a Savior. It is important to understand that Satan is not simply trying to draw people to the dark side of a good versus evil conflict.& nbsp; Actually, he is trying to eradicate the gap between himself and God, between good and evil, altogether.& nbsp; When we understand the approach it helps us see why Thomas Merton said everyone is already united with God or why Jack Canfield said he felt God flowing through all things. All means all--nothing left out. Such reasoning implies that God has given His glory to all of creation; since Satan is part of creation, then he too shares in this glory, and thus is “like the Most High."  (Ibid 108) The doctrines (instructions) of demons--no matter how nice, how charming, how devoted to God they sound--convey that everything has Divine Presence (all in One).  This is clear heresy--for that would be saying Satan and God are one also (i.e., "I [Lucifer] will be like the Most High, 'Isaiah 14:14). If what Henry Nouwen proclaimed is true when he said, “[We] can come to the full realization of the unity of all that is,” then Jesus Christ and Satan are also united. That is something only a demonic spirit would teach!...It is evident then, that the whole idea of a Christ consciousness where we all have divinity, is completely unbiblical in that it negates who Jesus was and what He came to do."& nbsp; (Ibid. 131)

In the late 1990's, a very older lady who was a small child during the Kellogg pantheism split in the church gave her testimony. She remembered the pain that her family felt when they were no longer welcome in the Battle Creek church. She told of the problems and the pain in great detail and said that E.G. White said that it would repeat itself in the last days. Mrs. White tried very hard to help Dr. Kellogg see the error of pantheism, but he refused.& nbsp; Eventually the church moved away from the Kellogg influence.

We agree that spiritual revival is needed for each of us but we do NOT agree that Spiritual Formation should be the basis of revival because it incorporates the devil's poison into Christ's message as was foretold: Popular revivals are too often carried by appeals to the imagination, by exciting the emotions, by gratifying the love for what is new and startling. Converts thus gained have little desire to listen to Bible truth, little<BR>interest in the testimony of prophets and apostles. Unless a religious service has something of a sensational character, it has no attractions for them. A message which appeals to unimpassioned reason awakens no response. The plain warnings of God’s word, relating directly to their eternal interests, are unheeded. (Great Controversy 463:2) & nbsp; While there are good ideas in the spiritual formation message: intimacy with God, time spent in prayer and meditation in a hurried world, etc., the message comes from a polluted, pagan source. The most dangerous aspect, as we see it, is contemplative/centering prayer, or breath prayers. The participants are taught to listen to their breathing and to empty the mind through the repetition of a word or phrase, perhaps the name of Jesus. It is the same technique used by Eastern religions, New Age proponents, and ancient pagans. The person goes into an altered (alpha) state of consciousness, the mind is open to spiritual impressions and messages, and Satan can come in and take control of the mind. Jesus warned us against vain repetitions as the heathen do (Matt. 6:7). Nor are we to take Jesus’ name in vain. Catholics and Protestants have gone to Buddhist and Hindu gurus to learn how to do this. This spiritualistic deception has become the common link between all world religions, the means for them all to come together, as portrayed in the three-fold alliance of Revelation 16:13-14. They will use this to achieve world-wide unity of religion.

God calls us to a different kind to unity: Christ calls for unity. But he does not call on us to unify on wrong practices. The God of heaven draws a sharp contrast between pure, elevating, nnobling, truth and false, misleading doctrines. He calls sin and impenitence by the right name. He does not gloss over wrongdoing with a coat<BR>of untempered mortar. I urge our brethren to unify upon a true, scriptural basis. (Manucript 10, 1905, White)

The contemplative method was also used by Muhammad when he wrote the Koran. He claimed that the angel

Gabriel came to him during this type of prayer in a cave. (See The Truth about Muhammad, by Robert Spencer, pages 40-46). Although Adventist proponents of spiritual formation state that they do not practice or teach mantras that lead to an altered state of consciousness, which is actually self-hypnosis, they include and laud all the authors who teach these techniques in their classes. The students who read these books are in grave danger of getting caught in a net of error and mysticism because it is such a seductive message. Our schools are providing a very slippery slope down which many young people may slide into paganism, spiritualism, and unbelief. These books also teach<BR>the dangerous practice of using a spiritual director to guide them in their spiritual disciplines. Why not use the Scriptures, the Spirit of Prophecy, and the Holy Spirit for direction?

We may disguise poison by mingling it with wholesome food, but we do not change its nature. On the contrary, it is rendered more dangerous, as it is more likely to be taken unawares. It is one of Satan's devices to combine with falsehood just enough truth to give it plausibility.” (Great Controversy, 587.1) My message to you is: No longer consent to listen without protest to the perversion of truth.& nbsp; Unmask the pretentious sophistries which, if received, will lead ministers and physicians and medical missionary workers to ignore the truth. Everyone is now to stand on his guard. God calls men and women to take their stand under the blood-stained banner of Prince Emanuel. I have been instructed to warn our people, for many are in danger of receiving theories and sophistries that undermine the foundation pillars of the faith…Satan with his seductive influence has stolen away saints. Brilliant, sparking ideas often flash from a mind that is influenced by the great deceiver. Those who listen and acquiesce will become charmed, as Eve was charmed by the serpent’s words. They cannot listen to charming philosophical speculations, and at the same time keep the word of the living God clearly in mind. (1 Selected Messages,

The spiritual disciplines (for example, solitude, silence, exile, fasting, night vigils, study, prayer, frugality, chastity, secrecy, sacrifice, celebration, fellowship, submission to a spiritual director) taught by Richard Foster, Dallas Willard, and others are a works-based, man-centered religion, where the adepts attempt to use asceticism to approach nearer to God. A feeling of intimacy is sought without passing through the Biblical door of confession of sin, repentance, and the blood atonement of Jesus Christ. The Bible does not support this approach.

Rick Howard, author of The Omega Rebellion, recently visited friends and family in the Walla Walla area. A group of us were invited. Rick had been a Buddhist before he was an Adventist.  He is very familiar with the spiritualistic aspects of the Buddhist religion including the silent contemplative place. He said that it produces a high the same as a drug high and is as addictive as drugs. Yungen agrees for he writes: Into the Depths of God [a pro-contemplative book by Calvin Miller] is an exhortation in contemplative spirituality and is brimming with quotes by Thomas Merton and other contemplatives. Miller speaks of the “wonderful relationship between ecstasy (mystical state) and transcendence (God),” and says that “Ecstasy is meant to increase our desire for heaven.” This state of “Ecstasy” is the same state Thomas Merton likened to an LSD trip and which made him say he wanted to be the best Buddhist he could be."& nbsp; (A Time of Departing, 186)

This is NOT the way that Jesus taught us to pray, and it has no part of the Adventist religion. We should NOT be joining the Spiritual Formation movement that is sweeping the entire world just to keep others from seeing us as "elitists". Right now, our church is facing the shaking time where the joiners" will join the persecuting factor. Men of talent and pleasing address, who once rejoiced in the truth, employ<BR>their powers to deceive and mislead souls. They become the most bitter enemies of their former brethren. (Great Controvery 608) We believe that the time foretold in Revelation 13: 11-17 will soon be upon us. There will be a death decree for all those who accept the mark of the beast. As Ellen White states: The Protestants of the United States will be foremost in stretching their<BR>hands across the gulf to grasp the hands of spiritualism; they will reach over the abyss to clasp the hands with the Roman power; and under the<BR>influence of this threefold union, this country will follow in the steps of Rome in trampling on the rights of conscience. (Great Controversy 588:1)

Leonard Sweet is a proponent of the Emerging Church, which teaches that all spiritual roads are equally valid and lead to God. In his book, Soul Tsunami, he says, "It's time for a Post Modern Reformation,” (17) and adds,

"Reinvent yourself for the 21st century or die." (75) (Cited in A Time of<BR>Departing 158) We are venturing on VERY dangerous ground.& nbsp; The entire Adventist population hould be aware of the basis of the Emerging Church,/Spiritual Formation/Contemplative Prayer movement that is sweeping the world and is being introduced into our universities and churches.& nbsp; We desperately need our people informed so that they are not among the "shaken out." We believe that the shaking time has already started. It is not too late to stem the tide of error that is threatening to overtake the church. The church will stand, but many will be shaken out: The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out—the chaff separated from the precious wheat. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place. (2 Selected Messages 380)

Please arrange a universal information program that will give Adventists the facts needed so that everyone can understand what is at stake when paganism and mysticism are mixed with truth. Sincerely, Lois Kind WI License #K530372309882 University of Wisconsin- Milwaukee, Masters+ in Educational Psychology WA registration #020701 RC00040398 Registered Crime Victims Provider, WA

A href="http://us.mc1610.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lois_kind@msn.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank

mailto=mailto:lois_kind@msn.com lois_kind@msn.com/A DIV/DIV/DIV/DIV/DIV/DIV/DIV/DIV/DIV/DIV/BLOCKQUOTE

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[joeb]

All of this just shows that Paul knew what he was talking about when he counseled Timothy.

Quote:

II Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

[Gibs]

Blessings joeb for readin,

All todays SDA's it is a must for you all to read. It is elating to me to see a wake up call, join in, is the call.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[BobRyan]

I agree that the Ignatius Loyola sponsored SF movement does not fit SDA doctrine and should be avoided.

in Christ,

Bob

[BibleOnly]

"At one time during the July sermon, he referred to Ellen G. White as a mystic and suggested that we should be reading from outside sources."

Question - does this mean you should only be reading Ellen G. White ? Where does this EGW worship end ?

[Q.E.D.]

"At one time during the July sermon, he referred to Ellen G. White as a mystic and suggested that we should be reading from outside sources."

Question - does this mean you should only be reading Ellen G. White ? Where does this EGW worship end?

No, it does not mean that we should "only be reading Ellen G. White."

What Ellen G. White worship?

A+B=What???

Q.E.D.

[ClubV12]

Error has been preached from the pulpit by various Adventist Pastors since Ellen White's time. She had to deal with it, the folks after her had to deal with it, we will have to deal with in our time. This is not some "startling new news", it has always been, always will be. We certainly need to be aware of it. My concern, Gib's, is your solution is more injurious to the patient than the disease. A call to leave the church! That is NOT a viable solution, it's spiritual suicide, death isn't a cure.

BibleOnly, speaking for myself, I find little value in spiritual books outside of Ellen Whites writings. She wrote for over 60 or 70 years, over 50 books. She has touched on virtually every aspect of the Christian life. I consistently find when reading other spiritual authors they are expressing thoughts, concepts, ideas, that she also covered. Reading ANY author does not equate to "worship", it's just using your head and knowing where to go to get the best information. As it concerns the life of Christ, for instance, the "Desire of Ages" is widely recognized as the best book ever written on the subject. NOT only by Adventists, but by various scholars. It is a profound book, remarkable in it's scale. I guess I could go to a Christian book store and pick up a book on the subject from some other author. But it would definitely pale compared to Desire of Ages! I know, I've read it and many other books on the subject, Desire of Ages stands alone, top shelf reading.

[Igakusei]

Nothing like a good old-fashioned witch hunt to keep things going.

[BibleOnly]

What Ellen G. White worship?

The one where her word is equal to scripture.

[ClubV12]

You won't find a member of the Adventist church who believes or preaches that, BibleOnly. You WILL find "professed Adventists" or Adventists who have left the church suggest or say that! It is certainly NOT the official or mainstream view of Adventists OR Ellen White herself. Her comments are consistently that she is lesser light leading to a greater light, the bible. She consistently points people BACK to the bible and urges a careful study of the word!

Now, in keeping with the primary topic of this thread, consider her words as it concerns revival and reformation within the church. While she is specifically addressing the Adventist church here, the PRINCIPLES may apply to many different churches.

"Are we hoping to see the whole church revived? That time will never come."

Selected Messages, Book 1, pg 122

The reason is because revival and reformation must be on an individual basis, not a "group" comparing themselves one to another. But myself, yourself, comparing our life to His.

"There are persons in the church who are not converted, and who will not unite in earnest, prevailing prayer. We must enter upon the work individually. We must pray more, and talk less. Iniquity abounds, and the people must be taught not to be satisfied with a form of godliness without the spirit and power. If we are intent upon searching our own hearts, putting away our sins, and correcting our evil tendencies, our souls will not be lifted up unto vanity; we shall be distrustful of ourselves, having an abiding sense that our sufficiency is of God." Selected Messages, Book 1, pg 122

"We have far more to fear from within than from without. The hindrances to strength and success are far greater from the church itself than from the world. Unbelievers have a right to expect that those who profess to be keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, will do more than any other class to promote and honor, by their consistent lives, by their godly example and their active influence, the cause which they represent. But how often have the professed advocates of the truth proved the greatest obstacle to its advancement! The unbelief indulged, the doubts expressed, the darkness cherished, encourage the presence of evil angels, and open the way for the accomplishment of Satan’s devices." Selected Messages, Book 1, pg 122

[Gibs]

I am bringing out the next to the last paragraph of that letter I posted which all SDA's should for heavens sake read,

"Reinvent yourself for the 21st century or die." (75) (Cited in A Time of Departing 158) We are venturing on VERY dangerous ground.& nbsp; The entire Adventist population hould be aware of the basis of the Emerging Church,/Spiritual Formation/Contemplative Prayer movement that is sweeping the world and is being introduced into our universities and churches.& nbsp; We desperately need our people informed so that they are not among the "shaken out." We believe that the shaking time has already started. It is not too late to stem the tide of error that is threatening to overtake the church. The church will stand, but many will be shaken out: The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out—the chaff separated from the precious wheat. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place. (2 Selected Messages 380)

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

Worth repeating:

"The church will stand, but many will be shaken out: The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall." 2 SM 380

The "shaking" has been going on since 1844, when many of the original Millerites left the newly forming Adventist movement. Indeed, it could be said the "shaking" was taking place in Pauls time! It is important to recognize that the term "shaking" should not be confused with the very last day events "shaking". Which will be world wide and without question the most serious event to ever hit mankind. It won't be only Adventists, every man, woman and child on earth will be brought to the point of choosing to serve the Lord or accept the mark of the beast. That time has not yet come. We are not yet facing a serious issue of not being able to buy and sell. We are not yet facing a death decree. God's church on earth will not fail, those who choose their own path will fail.

[Gibs]

The shaking wasn't to be brought before the people until it was time, that time was when the errors began to come in and it began Heavy in the 1950's. EGW, says of it,

"Divisions will come in the church. Two parties will be developed. The wheat and tares grow up together for the harvest. There will be a shaking of the sieve. The chaff must in time be separated from the wheat. Because iniquity abounds, the love of many waxes cold. It is the very time when the genuine will be the strongest".--Letter 46, 1887. {LDE 173.1}

Two parties have developed alright but most refuse to see it and want "emerging church". There can only be unity in Truth and in our God and Saviour.

A little more from EGW,

I was shown the necessity of those who believe we are having the last message of mercy, being separate from those who are daily imbibing new errors. I saw that young and old should not attend their assemblies; for it is wrong to encourage them by attending their meetings while they teach error that is poisonous, and death to the soul, and teach for doctrines the commandments of men. And the influence is not good. If God has delivered us from such darkness and error, we should stand fast in the liberty wherewith he has set us free, and rejoice in the truth. God is displeased with those who go to listen to error, when they are not obliged to; for unless he sends us to these meetings, where error is forced home to the people by the power of the will, he will not keep us. The angels cease their watchful care over us, and we are left to the buffetings of the enemy, to be darkened and weakened by him, and the power of his evil angels; and the light around us becomes contaminated with the darkness. {ExV54 45.2}

Yes that letter I posted is a must read for all SDA's.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

Gibs says,

"....most refuse to see it and want "emerging church"."

This is misleading, "most" Adventists do not look for, preach or support the concept of the emerging church. But what if they did? What should be our response?

We should leave where error is being presented, but the Sister White quote is not a reference to the Seventh-day Adventist church. The context is worldly churches where "daily" error is being preached. That certainly describes the churches comprising Babylon, that Revelation calls for people to come out of.

We know some see this quote as meaning we should leave the Seventh-day Adventist church as in their opinion, it is teaching error. Doctrinal error, as it concerns a church, cannot be based on a church here, or there, or by a popular preacher here or there. It should be based on what the body of believers hold to be truth. In that regard, what doctrinal "error" do we find in the Seventh-day Adventist church? If there IS error being preached in any given Adventist church what is our responsibility?

Hear the prophets counsel:

[i]"...unless he sends us to these meetings, where error is forced home to the people by the power of the will," (EW 125). We ARE called to these "meetings", particularly on Sabbath, in our local Adventist church! We ARE called to speak out, with pen, voice and example to meet these false teachings. We ARE to stand firm in the face of such error. He does send us to these meetings!

[Gibs]

Error is error no matter what the called name of the church structure is and we are either to dispell it or separate from it.

Part of a paragraph in the letter I posted, please SDA's read it.

"Reinvent yourself for the 21st century or die." (75) (Cited in A Time of Departing 158) We are venturing on VERY dangerous ground.& nbsp; The entire Adventist population should be aware of the basis of the Emerging Church,/Spiritual Formation/Contemplative Prayer movement that is sweeping the world and is being introduced into our universities and churches.& nbsp; We desperately need our people informed so that they are not among the "shaken out." We believe that the shaking time has already started. It is not too late to stem the tide of error that is threatening to overtake the church".

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[phkrause]

So let me get this straight, we shouldn't read EGW and quote her, according to some, but its OK to read and quote others who really don't have any authority??????? Awesome!!!!!

[Gibs]

pkrause,

The letter is a wake up call from some high in the SDA church and there is a lot of quotes in it from EGW. I quote her also in messages to SDA's and the letter is for SDA's,

A paragraph,

"Reinvent yourself for the 21st century or die." (75) (Cited in A Time of<BR>Departing 158) We are venturing on VERY dangerous ground.& nbsp; The entire Adventist population hould be aware of the basis of the Emerging Church,/Spiritual Formation/Contemplative Prayer movement that is sweeping the world and is being introduced into our universities and churches.& nbsp; We desperately need our people informed so that they are not among the "shaken out." We believe that the shaking time has already started. It is not too late to stem the tide of error that is threatening to overtake the church. The church will stand, but many will be shaken out: The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out—the chaff separated from the precious wheat. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place. (2 Selected Messages 380)

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

Here is another "deep" pararaph from that letter that needs to be caught by all.

"The omega will be of a most startling nature. (1 Selected Messages 197)…I knew that the omega would follow in a little while; and I trembled for our people. I knew that I must warn our brethren and sisters not to enter into controversy over the presence and personality of God. (203) & nbsp; The experience of the past will be repeated. In the future, Satan’s superstitions will assume new forms. Errors will be presented in a pleasing and flattering manner. False theories, clothed with garments of light, will be presented to God’s people. Thus Satan will try to deceive, if possible, the very elect. Most seducing influences will be exerted; minds will be hypnotized. & nbsp; Corruptions of every type, similar to those existing among the antediluvians, will be brought in to take minds captive. The exaltation of nature as God, the unrestrained license of the human will, the counsel of the ungodly—these Satan uses as agencies to bring about certain ends. He will employ the power of mind over mind to carry out his designs. The most sorrowful thought of all is that under his deceptive influence men will have a form of godliness, without having a real connection with God…Many are even now feeding upon the deceptive morsels of error. Satanic agencies are clothing false theories in an attractive garb, even as Satan in the Garden of Eden concealed his identity from our first parents by speaking through the serpent. These agencies are instilling into human minds that which in reality is deadly error. The hypnotic influence of Satan will rest upon those who turn from the plain word of God to pleasing fables. It is those who have had the most light that Satan most assiduously seeks to ensnare. He knows that if he can deceive them, they will, under his control, clothe sin with garments of righteousness, and lead many astray. (8 Testimonies 293-294) Adventists are not the only Protestants that are worried about the Spiritual Formation message that is fast sweeping the entire Protestant and Catholic world. There are at least two other books written about this problem by other Protestant authors, A Time of Departing by Ray Yungen and Faith Undone by Roger Oakland. Yungen defines the difference between the problems of the past and what is happening now".

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

The omega apostasy will certainly follow the Alpha, which was Dr. Kelloggs book on the nature of God.

Personally, I don't think the "emerging church" issue constitutes the Omega apostasy. Because it is to well known by Adventist leadership and membership in general. While it is a serious issue, it is not of a "startling nature", it is not sophisticated or insidious enough to qualify. Further more, it is not specifically aimed at Seventh-day Adventists but is more broad based in the Christian world in general.

As it concerns the Omega apostasy, it is red herring. Close enough to cause confusion and warrant discussion, but like a red herring, missing the real point and leading people searching for the ADVENTIST Omega on a wild goose chase.

In my opinion, the Omega Apostasy will be very focused on some doctrinal point that is fundamental to Adventist beliefs. The "world" won't understand the controversy and many within the church likewise will not see it. UNTIL it is to late. When they DO see it, "pride" will be the biggest problem for them to admit their mistake and humble themselves before God and their friends. Many bright lights will go out as a result, this will result in a startling situation for those who will choose to remain with the church. Those who have ALREADY left the church, will never see it coming, they will be PART of it and not even know it! It is likely they will be calling people out of the church as a result of their blindness....

Gib's I would suggest that you entirely separate Ellen White quotes from dialog copied/pasted from another author. The last few posts of yours make it difficult to determine where some random authors view points leave off and Sister Whites direct quote begin/end. Just a thought, so the readers won't be confused about who is saying what where. Perhaps putting her words in quotes might help.

[Gibs]

ClubV12,

I did not write that letter and you need to read it seriously and carefully. What is brought out is painfully true. Don't trash the messenger until you've read the message.

The authors used in the letter are true ones in the church with a straight testimony. You may be bitter toward me but don't be to the message in this letter.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[ClubV12]

Gib's I DID read the letter, and I am NOT "bitter" toward you. As I have said before, I am offering a BALANCING view on these issues. Let the readers decide from an informed position.

"It is not too late to stem the tide of error that is threatening to overtake the church. The church will stand, but many will be shaken out: The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out—the chaff separated from the precious wheat. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place." (2 Selected Messages 380)

It is not to late to stem the tide, will you return to the church and help to do so Brother Gibs? Or will you remain apart and call others to do likewise? We are either working for the evil one or for God, there is no neutral position. Let all carefully consider which side they are supporting.

[Gibs]

ClubV12,

Stem the tide of incoming apostasy and error is what I am about now and this letter I posted is from the hearts of many not Just Lois Kind who wrote it and her email address is at the bottom. You will have to separate it out if you would want to email her as streaming in run things together and that last piece I didn't spread out.

Like EGW states in Adventism we are called to unity in Him,

"God calls us to a different kind to unity: Christ calls for unity. But he does not call on us to unify on wrong practices. The God of heaven draws a sharp contrast between pure, elevating, nnobling, truth and false, misleading doctrines. He calls sin and impenitence by the right name. He does not gloss over wrongdoing with a coat of untempered mortar. I urge our brethren to unify upon a true, scriptural basis". (Manucript 10, 1905, White)

My name is no longer on her books and since she is now a corporation I can not be a denominational Adventist, But that don't prevent me from being a true blue one in the eyes of God. If she totally reformed yes I would go through the doors gladly but never to put my name on the books of a corporation of the world.

This letter from Lois Kind is of utmost importance to all SDA's worldwide, for heavens sake get as many as possibly you can to read it.

May all be Blessed of Him who do.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Overaged]

I am bringing out the next to the last paragraph of that letter I posted which all SDA's should for heavens sake read,

"Reinvent yourself for the 21st century or die." (75) (Cited in A Time of Departing 158) We are venturing on VERY dangerous ground.& nbsp; The entire Adventist population hould be aware of the basis of the Emerging Church,/Spiritual Formation/Contemplative Prayer movement that is sweeping the world and is being introduced into our universities and churches.& nbsp; We desperately need our people informed so that they are not among the "shaken out." We believe that the shaking time has already started. It is not too late to stem the tide of error that is threatening to overtake the church. The church will stand, but many will be shaken out: The church may appear as about to fall, but it does not fall. It remains, while the sinners in Zion will be sifted out—the chaff separated from the precious wheat. This is a terrible ordeal, but nevertheless it must take place. (2 Selected Messages 380)

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

New "light" or old "darkness?"

[ClubV12]

Gib's says,

"My name is no longer on her books and since she is now a corporation I can not be a denominational Adventist, But that don't prevent me from being a true blue one in the eyes of God."

I have a different opinion on that Brother Gibs. It is a serious thing to remove yourself from church membership, God is not in such a thing. He is not pleased. You have taken the path of error and as a result have lost your credibility to speak to the church. You are one of many such voices, one of many who have bundled themselves together to attack and scatter God's people. The best lie's always contain a large element of truth.

The emerging church issue is a serious one, the issues of contemplative prayer are serious. Your suggested "cure" is to leave the church if we would follow your example! It is a presentation of some truth, mixed with the most deadly of all poisons. the end reslut is designed to scatter the people of God, not draw them together.

May I suggest your focus be on Christ and Him crucified. THAT is the protection we all need to discern truth from error.

[Gibs]

My name on any books in this world has nothing to do with my salvation. My salvation depends on my compliance with His Way and that is obtained in full love for Him to do His and His only Will and my will fully given to do His will and then I am one with Him and the Father. The true Church has no denominational name now or ever did. Those who are in it, their names are recorded In His Book. He knows each and every one of His own because they have invited Him in by full and complete surrender and He abides in them and they in He.

Sorry you will never get me to collaborate with a corrupted system structure called a church by any name other than "ekklesia" which stands uncorrupted and the gates of hell will never prevail against it as He, Jeus Christ is the only one followed. We may be scattered but world wide there is a fairly large number. We meet and have church like He says, by Spirit and in truth, at all times in constant communication with him. A special tabernacle with Him and all the Holy Angels is then done each Sabath. Notice "must" in this verse,

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

1Co 3:16 ¶ Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

We are His Building, His Body, His Church, His Bride.

The first paragraph of this posted important letter,

"A letter circulating that you might be interested in reading. October 27, 2011 118 SE 6th Street College Place, WA 99324 Robert Folkenberg, Jr., President Upper Columbia Conference of & nbsp; Seventh-day Adventists 3715 South Grove Road Spokane, WA 99224 Cc: Max Torkelson II, Dan Jackson, Ted Wilson We are a group of Seventh-day Adventist church members in the Walla Walla Valley deeply concerned with what is sweeping into our Walla Walla University and valley churches. We do not wish to remain a silent majority. It is true that we are asleep in the Laodicean Church, that many of us long for a more vibrant, living relationship with the Lord. It is true that a head knowledge of Biblical doctrines is not enough to sustain us. Religion has to get down into the heart. It seems there are presently two paths of revival going on in the Adventist church, one backed by the & nbsp; Bible and the other a mix of Bible and ancient mysticism (paganism), New Age, Catholicism, Eastern religions, Buddhism, Zen masters, etc. It is the second that causes much concern for the mainline Adventist".

Do read it, I plead with all,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.