A Must Read Letter That Just Came In To Me

[Patrick Lawrence]

Here is a related article every one might be interested in. http://www.maranathamedia.com/site/index...&Itemid=115

Also thought I better warn some that do not know. The people that run maranatha and many people on there have some incorrect views on the nature of Christ. I do not believe though it has anything to do with this article.

And here is another related Link.

[Overaged]

They have many "incorrect" views there. I stopped reading their mumbo-jumbo a long time ago

[Dr. Rich]

Ditto Overaged! Good post.

[Patrick Lawrence]

Ya I know they have errors and I do not normally visit the site any more either. But I found that while searching for more information for the subject. And reading it I did not notice off hand anything related to their errors. And the second link came from a different source. Any way I just wanted to warn people incase the started wondering around that site.

[cooldude]

With all this confusion spreading in the church, what do you say to someone who decides to pack up and leave? I read a post by a theology professor in another denomination whose colleague had called it quits . He bemoans the frustrating attitudes that could lead to such a decision. It could easily have been written by an Adventist.

[Gibs]

Well Cooldude,

It is one of two things, we either confront the error and apostasies that come in and if the leadership, hierarchy of the church will not reform then we stay satisfied with it or must leave and join the Ekklisa, "the called out ones", the one Jesus set up on Himself the "Rock" that the gates of hell never prevail against. The reason this one is not prevailed against is because those of it follow only Him and no man. This is His true church, it is not a structure of men, but a building of His Body, the members who hold to Him and do not stray away on no point but hold to His Word and none other.

The Ekklisa is the Remnant church and today it is just that, a small piece in percentage of peoples today that follow only Him unafraid of what men may say to keep them in their structures, called "churches". Ekklisa is the Church and is made up of the "called out ones". He always keeps calling,

Re 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

2Jo 1:10 ¶ If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

2Jo 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Overaged]

Ekklisa includes denominated churches. Your reasoning for separating is Roman Catholic dogma. You might want to re-think what you are saying.

[Tom Wetmore]

With all this confusion spreading in the church, what do you say to someone who decides to pack up and leave? I read a post by a theology professor in another denomination whose colleague had called it quits . He bemoans the frustrating attitudes that could lead to such a decision. It could easily have been written by an Adventist.

Well worth reading and rereading...

[Neil D]

This is a must read for all loyal SDA's. It just came in to me, I wish it had of earlier, it is long but SDA's you must read this. This has been dicussed here some and all should take hold of this.

AllSubject: A very informative letter!

A letter circulating that you might be interested in reading. October 27, 2011 118 SE 6th Street College Place, WA 99324 Robert Folkenberg, Jr., President Upper Columbia Conference of & nbsp; Seventh-day Adventists 3715 South Grove Road Spokane, WA 99224 Cc: Max Torkelson II, Dan Jackson, Ted Wilson We are a group of Seventh-day Adventist church members in the Walla Walla Valley deeply concerned with what is sweeping into our Walla Walla University and valley churches. We do not wish to remain a silent majority. It is true that we are asleep in the Laodicean Church, that many of us long for a more vibrant, living relationship with the Lord. It is true that a head knowledge of Biblical doctrines is not enough to sustain us. Religion has to get down into the heart. It seems there are presently two paths of revival going on in the Adventist church, one backed by the & nbsp; Bible and the other a mix of Bible and ancient mysticism (paganism), New Age, Catholicism, Eastern religions, Buddhism, Zen masters, etc. It is the second that causes much concern for the mainline Adventist.

There are good reasons for the concerns we are stating in this document. This last (third) quarter of 2011, we studied in our Adult Sabbath School Study Guide the result of God's people mixing the devil's lies into their religion. God has not changed His opinion today: syncretism is still dangerous and deadly. The second stream is taking place at Andrews University (see copy of enclosed blog) and now Walla Walla University and Church. In July Pastor Alex Bryan introduced the new Associate Pastor, Emily M. Flottmann, who will be leading out in "Spiritual Formation".& nbsp; In his sermon that day he used the words "Spiritual Formation, mysticism, mystical,” etc. At one time during the July sermon, he referred to Ellen G. White as a mystic and suggested that we should be reading from outside sources. We are very concerned about the way these ideas will be presented to impressionable college students, as well as to younger children in their formative years.

There are several little things that bother me about this letter.....To the point that I will disregard it...

first off is that Gibs posted it...And that he is associated with some pretty wild ideas...Conspiracy theorys associated with the Adventist Church and among the Adventists...Nevertheless, there are good reminders from strange/unique people....

I know where the "walla walla valley" begins and ends and it ain't in Spokane Washington. I am some what familiar with the topography....Walla Walla Valley is composed of the cities of Walla Walla, College Place, Prescott and Waitsburg along with the rest of the county. It doesn't go to Spokane Washington.

Apparently, Alex Bryan during a sermon refered to EGW as mystical. The context of the Thansgiving sermon that I listened to was that the earlier reference to EGW as "mystical" was in regard to her exercising the gift of prophecy as non-explainable, and not associated with spiritualism or mysticism. He confessed...it was a poor choice of words...

Syncretism, as defined by the American Heritage Dictionary, is “the reconciliation or fusion of differing systems of belief.” This is most evident in the areas of philosophy and religion, and usually results in a new teaching or belief system. Obviously, this cannot be reconciled to biblical Christianity.

The questions are what non-biblical beliefs are being fused into Adventism....Apparently, some "contemplative" attitudes are being expounded upon during prayer as in "listening to God" techniques...It is my opinion that when a person has a relationship with God, that while prayer is usually associated with the person's desires being expressed, listening to God is not as resoundly expressed with clarity. Isn't relationships built on TWO WAY COMMUNICATION? I thought so...

This letter talks about "the omega conspiracy"....I have personally heard this application talked about during the Ford controversy. EGW does NOT talk about 2 Omega controversy happening..she only refers to ONE....So, which is it? Ford or this one?

Tell me, why should I continue to listen to this "rabble rousing" against good leaders who make our children better and give them gifts of coming closer to God that we ourselves never had? I don't expect every new thought to be accepted as there are too many "watchmen" who will prevent it from coming into contact with the people....Perhaps that's the real Omega Controversy...

[Gibs]

Hamilton,

Those who don't want to see it will not. The very things Lois points out in this letter have come into the denomination and more before she began to see.

Ted Wilson and a few others in the top see it, but they need you people to see it too and get behind them and awaken the rest around you and not be holding up the truth getting to them.

After reading her letter you should be concerned and be with her and many that are knowing very bad things have come in. It's not divisive to catch error and expose it at all. It is just showing that those need to be divided, cast out that the church can be back on track.

No I don't see much chance as most in the leadership would have to go and they will remain you can bet on it. We can not put our faith in no man, don't matter what his position or titles added to his name. We must be like the Bereans,

Ac 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

This next statement is foremost to be adhered to and understood fully to become what is the requirement for all.

"We have no hesitancy in telling you that in order to obtain the immortal inheritance and the eternal substance, you must be overcomers in this probationary life. Everything that blots and stains the soul must be removed, must be cleansed from the heart. We must know what it means to be a partaker of the divine nature, having escaped the corruptions that are in the world through lust. Are you willing to wage war against the lusts of the flesh? Are you ready to battle against the enemy of God and man? Satan is determined to enslave every soul if he can; for he is playing a desperate game to win the souls of men from Christ and eternal life. Will you permit him to steal from you the graces of the Spirit of God, and plant in you his own corrupt nature? or will you accept the great provision of salvation, and through the merits of the Infinite Sacrifice made in your behalf, become a partaker of the divine nature? God has given his only-begotten Son, that through his shame, suffering, and death, you might have glory, honor, and immortality. Are you not willing to lay hold on the gracious hope set before you in the gospel? Is it humiliating to seek to win a crown of immortal glory?" {ST, June 15, 1891 par. 4}

Each can be diliverd from being a slave of sin through the provision He has made, He in you.

No that is not for itching ears to go on living as before coming to His Throne of Grace. True Repentance and death of the old self and alive in the Spirit, His Divine Nature in you and Paul says that is our hope of Glory.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Dr. Rich]

What part of Matthew 13:28-30 don't you understand?

[Gibs]

That don't mean I have to stay where error is taught and being forced home. We are counciled to come out of it.

Ac 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Overaged]

That don't mean I have to stay where error is taught and being forced home. We are counciled to come out of it.

Ac 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Gibs; each post you make on this subject becomes more steeped in error and sophistry. These texts you supplied do not even come close to saying we should leave a given church, just because of "error" that they teach or allow. Jesus stayed in a church where the grossest error was taught - I thought we, as Christians, are to follow His example?

[Gibs]

Whoa,

Jesus was one of the first overcomers and He was the head of and the establisher of that church, Ekklesia, "the called out ones". Ah but you bet we are called to come out, especially where it cannot be corrected and it certainly appears it has come to that place as I notice from here that most are supporters of the errors and the ones in high places bringing them in.

Yes I steadfastly admonish all to read the letter I posted from Lois Kind. It is a wake up call to the people from one still within her. Get behind her, Lois and Ted and see if you can turn the tide. Don't fight me, I am only a messenger.

EGW brings up one here that all today need to take hold of,

"We have no hesitancy in telling you that in order to obtain the immortal inheritance and the eternal substance, you must be overcomers in this probationary life. Everything that blots and stains the soul must be removed, must be cleansed from the heart. We must know what it means to be a partaker of the divine nature, having escaped the corruptions that are in the world through lust. Are you willing to wage war against the lusts of the flesh? Are you ready to battle against the enemy of God and man? Satan is determined to enslave every soul if he can; for he is playing a desperate game to win the souls of men from Christ and eternal life. Will you permit him to steal from you the graces of the Spirit of God, and plant in you his own corrupt nature? or will you accept the great provision of salvation, and through the merits of the Infinite Sacrifice made in your behalf, become a partaker of the divine nature? God has given his only-begotten Son, that through his shame, suffering, and death, you might have glory, honor, and immortality. Are you not willing to lay hold on the gracious hope set before you in the gospel? Is it humiliating to seek to win a crown of immortal glory?" {ST, June 15, 1891 par. 4}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Overaged]

You bear a false message; our example is NOT Lois Kind; and I would caution anyone reading this to follow the example of Jesus, not of the disgruntled church police crowd. The malcontents of fury and error will never cease to attack the Adventist Church; but the proof is in the Bible for all to see. "Church" in the Bible means "called out ones;" but not called out of the Church, called into it.

Lets look a little closer at Jesus, and at His relationship with His church, shall we? I would actually, really like to do this with you Gibs, if it is OK with you.

One thing that I admire about you my friend is how you see errors, and how they make you mad. They make me mad too! I guess what I am saying is simply that Jesus shows us how to respond to this error, and to me this would be an interesting thing for us to discuss here. Jesus said and did many things in response to error being taught and practiced in the church; and I personally find much encouragement in studying/discussing these.

One thing for us to begin with here is the fact that the "church" (Temple) of Jesus' day was filled with gross error, from the top leadership, and on down. I think this is something we can agree upon Gibs, plus, the fact that these same errors have survived the eons of time since Jesus' day all the way to our own churches, and all the way from the top leadership, and on down to the bottom.

Am I correct in thinking that we can agree on this?

The other thing I think we can agree on Gibs, is that Jesus did stay with the Church, all the way to his death.; and what i will try to explore with you a bit in the next post, is why? Why did Jesus have the "custom" of going to the Church of His day "on the Sabbath?" Why would our Lord still attend an organization so rife with error? (just like we often see in our own churches). The Scriptures have a lot to say about this subject; and I think we can have a really good discussion about it, and still be friends to boot!

Lets give it a try?!

[Overaged]

Whoa,

Jesus was one of the first overcomers and He was the head of and the establisher of that church, Ekklesia, "the called out ones". Ah but you bet we are called to come out, especially where it cannot be corrected and it certainly appears it has come to that place as I notice from here that most are supporters of the errors and the ones in high places bringing them in.

1 Jo.1:5 - “This then is the message which we have heard of Him, and declare we unto you, that God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all.

6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and [we] walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the Truth:

7 - But, if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with another; and the blood of Jesus Christ, His Son, cleanseth us from all sin.

[Aliensanctuary]

It's been my personal experience that attending church is a waste of time when I can stay home and carefully read the Good Book myself, rather than listen to some windbag temporarily shaking the air molecules. We shouldn't let windbags distract us from our responsibilities to others, the good things that Jesus the Messiah taught and practiced.

[Overaged]

Hmmm; "windbag theology."

Is that new light, or old darkness?

Jesus had periods of time when He did not attend church for a while too. It's certainly not "wrong" to follow His example on that note. The question is; do we have the same reason as Jesus did, when we do it?

[Overaged]

Well Cooldude,

It is one of two things, we either confront the error and apostasies that come in and if the leadership, hierarchy of the church will not reform then we stay satisfied with it or must leave and join the Ekklisa, "the called out ones",

Jesus knows the things that come into our minds, every one of them...God pities the poor, self - deceived souls who are trampling upon His Truth. Let the wheat and the tares grow together until the harvest. Pity and deplore the blindness of the minds that are under the dominion of Satan, but restrain your own wrath and passion, and do not pass your judgment upon them. Leave in God's hands the despisers of His Truth. The right and liberty of passing judgment upon others is not given to you. It was not given to Moses to pronounce judgment upon rebellious Israel. The glaring weakness of His agents as displayed by Moses, will bring it's reward... then, and now.

[ClubV12]

"We are counciled to come out of it."

Gib's, here is the straight testimony, again, on that quote you keep repeating.

As YOU use it, it is ENTIRELY out of context, your REPEATED use of it in the face of the facts of that quote constitute a bold face lie. Sister White is NOT making a call for ANYBODY to leave, come out, disassociate themselves or drop their membership from the Seventh-day Adventist church, period!

This is not my opinion, I can back it up with detailed evidence from Sister White's own words. You have every right to speak your mind, to call people out of any church you like. But this GROSS MISREPRESENTATION of that Sister White quote borders on flagrant abuse of her counsel.

[Overaged]

"We are counciled to come out of it."

Gib's, here is the straight testimony, again, on that quote you keep repeating.

As YOU use it, it is ENTIRELY out of context, your REPEATED use of it in the face of the facts of that quote constitute a bold face lie. Sister White is NOT making a call for ANYBODY to leave, come out, disassociate themselves or drop their membership from the Seventh-day Adventist church, period!

This is not my opinion, I can back it up with detailed evidence from Sister White's own words. You have every right to speak your mind, to call people out of any church you like. But this GROSS MISREPRESENTATION of that Sister White quote borders on flagrant abuse of her counsel.

You can back it up with scripture too. I find that to be a good approach in cases like this.

[Stan]

Every wonder why when people are talking about the 'wheat and the tares' they always act like they are the wheat?

That letter sounds like so many I have read, primarily for the gullible, that end with "SEND ME YOUR TITHE"

Just sayin'

[Patrick Lawrence]

Of course the bigger point has nothing to do with the letter directly. The question is is the The emerging Church movement working its way into the Adventist church. And I think it is clear it is. As for leaving the church you are probably not going to change the mind of those that have left.

[Neil D]

Gibs, et al...

I've listen to this type of message before....and it is all the same...It says one thing, "this is wrong with the church" meaning that I am wrong....And yet, when I look at the bible, I see Jesus saying "this is the better way to walk and do the talk." Sure, He may have been slightly negative, but it always had a positive spin to it....Whereas, these people who tell me that this is wrong with the church, and that we need to change, that that is wrong with the church and that needs to change and if we don't change, the threat of eternal damnation was just around the corner and we could expect sudden and catastrophic consequences available and oh the Lord will bless us if we would obey the spirit of prophecy......

Put a positive spin and I will look at it....otherwise, I am done trying to listen to the negativity that offshoots put out...

[Gibs]

Hamilton,

Your GC president is alarmed for one within and some more at the top with him and this no hoax. Don't be taken in by the slippery snake Satan with His subtle slipping ins of apostasy and the occult illuminati teachings and exercises.

No it is not a pleasant thing to contend with but it must be met and rescinded or do the next best thing.

The positive and sure way is to follow the Holy Word and not be led of any of these exercises and a joining in with the world into a one world religion. It must be confrontation.

Certainly the wheat and the tares will grow up together but the devil must not take over the field or he will have it all tares for the burning.

It's a wake up call, heed it now and do what you can to keep Satan from taking over completly. What has come in is very hard for most to discern that anything is wrong. This is how Satan works, he is tops in deceiving. Remember this scripture.

Mt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

I urge all to read the letter and take it to heart and resolve to put your weight on the wheel to righting it.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.