Guest Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 What's going on? And where? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibs Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 regeneration52, That's just part of it and you bring up a good point that all SDA's need to get to the bottom of. The answer to the question in short it is "emerging church", we are all one. Trouble is One in What? We only want and must have Christian Unity by being One in Jesus Christ and that is by His Spirit in us today. Then with that indwelling each then is a spiritual member of His Spiritual Body, His Church, Ekklesia, means "called out ones". That is the meaning of the True Church. This only comes about in TRUE Christian Unity which is Unity in Him only and each and all being one in Him. Then these who have His Spirit dwelling within will hear no message of error as His Spirit convicts them of the false being put forth and then that teacher is no longer received by them as being ordained, Baptised of the Holy Spirit. His Spirit Alone is the Guide in His Church that the gates of Hell will not prevail against. All the rest have been prvailed against by imbibing errors and occult teachings. Paul revealed to the Gentiles the mystery, the hope of all who would be in His Church. Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: That is the Divine Nature of Jesus Christ in us. We must see that His are the overcomers and then the come outers, of all that is false, Babylon. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted December 20, 2011 Moderators Share Posted December 20, 2011 What's going on? And where? Spiritual formation is the growth and development of the whole person by an intentional focus on one’s spiritual and interior life interactions with others in ordinary life the spiritual practices (prayer, the study of scripture, fasting, simplicity, solitude, confession, worship, etc.). Christians including SDA's have always been engaged in spiritual formation. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted December 20, 2011 Moderators Share Posted December 20, 2011 But is the spiritual formation that SDAs refer to as revival & reformation the same as the spiritual formation that is currently popular in the Christian world? The stated mission in Wiki sounds very good, but I see that some of the cited authorities for this movement are Ignatius Loyola & Henri Nouen, both Catholic priests, and Renovare, an ecumenical organization that has among its leaders people coming from the whole gamut of Christian religions and if I recall correctly, even some non-christian ones like the Hindus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibs Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Well it's a growth alright, right back into Rome where protestantism came out of. And yes all of denominational protestantism that I know of has fell back in that old "wallow" too. There is outstanding ministries though that haven't. They are known as dissenting ministries and many have come out of the SDA church and many from all the other so called protestant churches. There is no denominational church today but what is protestant by name only. None protest all of this stuff coming in but have taken it in and done a slick gloss over of it to make it "edible", or shall we say "kosher". ONE in Jesus Christ only is the only way to go, it is His Spirituality that is needed, He dwelling within each member, "Christ in you", Paul states "the hope of Glory". He says it is a mystery among the Gentiles. It was til He revealed it that is the Divine Nature of Jesus Christ within that keeps us from falling into sin and power over the devil and His angels. The Jews knew of the Spirit of God dwelling in them as that was given to man after the flood since God saw man was too weak Spiritually to withstand the wiles of Satan. They are the ones the message to was, come just believe in Jesus Christ, He is your Expected Messiah. Just "believe" wasn't the message to the Gentiles. Out with this business of spiritual exercises and emerging church from Rome and the occult practices of meditating, yoga like stuff. Learn at the feet of Jesus Christ HIS way, the only way and all must be surrendered that the house be cleaned that He may be able to come and dwell within. Nothing withheld, our will given completely that our will be His will and our love being His Love, then we are ONE in Him, He in us that we too can be victorious over sin and the devil, a coveted overcomer. Only the overcomers will inherit His Eternal Kingdom. Paul gave the right message to the Gentiles but many wrest it, saved in sin which is a no go. It is saved from sin at conversion and then power over committing sin. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 SF is best avoided - as elder Ted Wilson has repeatedly said !!!!!!! rejoice always Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 But is the spiritual formation that SDAs refer to as revival & reformation the same as the spiritual formation that is currently popular in the Christian world? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 SF is best avoided - as elder Ted Wilson has repeatedly said !!!!!!! rejoice always Amen. Also, if you do a little research, and see what it really is, and where it came from, you don't have to take his word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 IN the magazine, the Review, that was given out when Pastor Wilson made that speech, it had a great article on SF, and it talked about BOTH kinds and support very much one of them. There are reasons why one of them is not good. The other one,,,, is great. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 I haven't seen that article. Sounds interesting, maybe I can find it and check it out. I like your signature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted December 24, 2011 Moderators Share Posted December 24, 2011 But is the spiritual formation that SDAs refer to as revival & reformation the same as the spiritual formation that is currently popular in the Christian world? The stated mission in Wiki sounds very good, but I see that some of the cited authorities for this movement are Ignatius Loyola & Henri Nouen, both Catholic priests, and Renovare, an ecumenical organization that has among its leaders people coming from the whole gamut of Christian religions and if I recall correctly, even some non-christian ones like the Hindus. The movement is broad and covers a wide spectrum of belief and practice. In and of itself Spiritual Formation is Biblical and it's practices are integral to the development of the Christian. There are ways in which others practice Spiritual Formation that SDA's would find objectionable but there are many practices that we can embrace knowing we are doing the Lords will. To suggest an outright rejection of Spiritual Formation reveals a level of ignorance that itself would hamper a true exposure of the errors within the movement. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted December 25, 2011 Moderators Share Posted December 25, 2011 Quote: To suggest an outright rejection of Spiritual Formation reveals a level of ignorance that itself would hamper a true exposure of the errors within the movement. Pardon my ignorance, but did you mean by this statement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 In and of itself Spiritual Formation is Biblical and it's practices are integral to the development of the Christian. Why don't you give some examples from the Bible as to why this "movement" should be ok, and how it is Biblical? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibs Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Man's spiritual formation is not the real one needed. The one needed is to be one in Jesus Christ and He in you. This is having in you His divine nature and You are Filled with His Spiritual Formation and His Spiritual Exercises. When you go to man and use the exercises and formation and gathering together with the teaching of the occult ones, like Ignatius Loyola whom the wording of it is almost identical but some different to disguise it you have gone to have another as your head. Christ only is the Head of His Church. What church do you want to be in? Choose ye whom you will follow, man or the One Who is the King and well able to Spiritualise His own and guide them and send them and ordain them. Most in the pulpits today are not ordained sent of Him or ordained of Him. Man can only recognize His Ordained Ones. That the pew sitter must do and If that preacher he finds is not Ordained of God he gets up and leaves. He knows the voice of the true Shepherd by the quality of His Voice, the TRUTH. If it isn't the Truth according to His Word he is a false teacher. The pew sitter must know the Word and test it against that Word. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted December 25, 2011 Moderators Share Posted December 25, 2011 Pardon my ignorance, but did you mean by this statement? Throwing out SF wholesale is like "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted December 25, 2011 Moderators Share Posted December 25, 2011 Originally Posted By: Lazarus In and of itself Spiritual Formation is Biblical and it's practices are integral to the development of the Christian. Why don't you give some examples from the Bible as to why this "movement" should be ok, and how it is Biblical? Its not simple about whether SF is ok or not ok. It just is. From Wiki: Dallas Willard writes that “it is a process that happens to everyone…. Terrorists as well as saints are the outcome of spiritual formation. Their spirits or hearts have been formed.” For the Christian, SF comes as a result of the practices I've already mentioned. The Bible is replete with examples. Prayer, Confession, Simplicity....etc. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. Matthew 6:6 2 Corinthians 1:12 For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.James 5:16 Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Example: If i redefine stealing as "liberating people from the burden of too much money, does that make stealing acceptable? I could claim that I am doing the Lord's work and demand the respect of my fellow believers. What we are discussing here is taking a dangerous practice and attempting to redefine it with a thin layer of airless paint. Underneath, it is still dangerous, (and rotten). True spirituality should be defined as reading the Bible, prayer and reaching out towards others. We don't need a college course taught by people who have "learned the ways of the heathen" and are influenced by them. My opinion... G Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibs Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Yes Olger, The Spiritual Formation and Exercises all need and must have can only be had when ALL is surrendered, nothing withheld, the "house" thoroughly cleaned and Christ then comes and dwells there as His Spiritual Temple, Christ in you the Hope of Glory as Paul says. EGW defines it as having the Divine Nature. He then can teach you all things and guide you into all truth. Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. What need do we have of any guide but He? None! Not of men proven to be of the occult! Also he adds, Discernment of His prophecy, "things to come" too. He then speaks to you constantly and He is your true guide and protector, as now the angels, all of them see Him dwelling there and the evil ones know they and the devil are defeated foes. He alone is the Spiritual mover of His Own, His Own accept None Other. All can be overcomers only when He Alone dwells within. None will be in His Kingdom but the Overcomers be assured. Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted December 30, 2011 Moderators Share Posted December 30, 2011 From Wiki: Dallas Willard writes that “it is a process that happens to everyone…. Terrorists as well as saints are the outcome of spiritual formation. Their spirits or hearts have been formed.” Spiritual formation produces both terrorists & saints? Quote: For the Christian, SF comes as a result of the practices I've already mentioned. The Bible is replete with examples. Prayer, Confession, Simplicity....etc. But HOW? For the Hindu, that would be repeating some mantra over & over. Is that the way to pray? And what would Loyola teach you about confession? Re: Throwing the baby with the bathwater. Instead of looking for a little nugget of gold in a garbage dump, would it not make more sense to go to the mine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Spiritual formation produces both terrorists & saints? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibs Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 The "gold" mine of eternal life is found only In Jesus Christ and going to another master is taking a dive away from it. There is no true safety but abiding in Him and In Him Only. We have a very artful deceiver to deal with and he is so slick most are taken in by his lies and lead offs. Our only hope as Paul states is Christ in You and all can have that indwelling Divine Nature but the Spiritual house must be thoroughly cleaned of all except Him and Him Only. You or none can have two masters, if you are Not Christ's fully and totally then He will not be your master as He is a jealous Bridegroom. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Quote: Re: Throwing the baby with the bathwater. Instead of looking for a little nugget of gold in a garbage dump, would it not make more sense to go to the mine? As stated, the above is puzzling as the two sentence's are not related! The Baby isn't lost in the bathwater or are you trying to empty the bathwater to find the baby! Looking for the gold emplies something entirely different, searching for something not in hand such as the baby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 The "gold" mine of eternal life is found only In Jesus Christ and going to another master is taking a dive away from it. There is no true safety but abiding in Him and In Him Only. We have a very artful deceiver to deal with and he is so slick most are taken in by his lies and lead offs. Our only hope as Paul states is Christ in You and all can have that indwelling Divine Nature but the Spiritual house must be thoroughly cleaned of all except Him and Him Only. You or none can have two masters, if you are Not Christ's fully and totally then He will not be your master as He is a jealous Bridegroom. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. What or who is the other master in SF? Did not Jesus himself spend 40 days and nights in the desert fasting and meditating? No real difference. Its all about getting your mind into a place where it is open to the Divine, open and cleansed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 GP You guys are talking like you know something, but when the analysis comes in, you are talking about such nebulous things... "Spiritual Formation"....What the heck is that??? For that matter, what do you mean when you talk about "spiritual things"?? Come on, ....Get specific or sit this one out....because you ain't contributing to the conversation...you are only adding to the chaos....And God ain't about chaos...Satan is .... So, what do you mean by 1]spiritual 2] spiritual formation 3] what precisely is so "anti christian" about this subtle and antagonistic heresy? Gibbs, you are the most nebulous of the bunch here, and Olger isn't far behind in calling for some sort of reformation..But, guys, what is it? What is "spiritual formation" and why is it so bad? My opinon is that you guys are ... stiring up distrust, and fear.... On the other side of the spectrum, Lazurus is trying to dispell the fear, by giving more solid information....Keep at this, Laz...You ain't there yet, but I can understand what you are saying better than the other fear mongers... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 GP So, what do you mean by 1]spiritual 2] spiritual formation 3] what precisely is so "anti christian" about this subtle and antagonistic heresy? 1. The light of the Divine/God. 2. Methods used to open yourself to a more personal and deeper understanding and walk with #1 3. This is what I have been asking for like 3 weeks. Other than some of the ideas might be used by non Christian people. But then we also pray, have faith and try to live in the light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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