Spiritual Formation in Adventism?

[Gibs]

This clip below is from - http://www.sdapartnersinconfusion.org/#!attiken-defies-wilson

Elder Attiken Defies

Elder Wilson

Raj Attiken, President of the Ohio Conference of SDA, has, within one week of Elder Ted N.C. Wilson's address at the Acts 11 Conference, started to advertise the 2012 Conference on Innovation. See http://www.sdapartnersininnovation.org. He wasted no time in this bold move, which represents the earliest that he has ever started to promote the following year's meeting.

Elder Wilson, in his address on Sabbath, October 22, 2011, counseled leaders to invite only presenters from within the Seventh-day Adventist Church--not those who are outside of our church, who do not understand or appreciate the end-time message that God has given us.

Elder Wilson made it clear that we should base our beliefs and practices on the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy, and nothing else. He admonished us to stay away from contemplative prayer, spiritual formation, breath prayers, mysticism, spiritualism and other Emergent practices. In spite of this some of our pastors and leaders continue to read, promote, and recommend the books and blogs of errant, unbiblical teachers.

For the past seven years many of the speakers invited to the Conference on Innovation have either been non-Adventist, or they have taught questionable ideas and practices, or they have taught interspirituality, or they have borrowed heavily from mysticism in some way.

For Elder Attiken to immediately start advertising next year's meeting right after Elder Wilson gave specific guidance on this matter is highly disrespectful and out of place.

Take your pick: the Kaisers, Sweet, Pagitt, Hirsch, Hagerty, Selmanovic, Lyons, Prager, Jenkins, etc. These presenters do not teach according to the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy. They do not have a grasp of the Great Controversy theme, and an acceptance of the specific identity and role of the remnant church of Bible prophecy. On the contrary, some of them teach concepts that are even outside of Christianity. They can be allowed to address our people only at great risk. They have had a weakening influence on our pastors, educators, and members.

When our world church leader, Elder Wilson, speaks his convictions so specifically and plainly that a child can understand, our pastors and leaders should not go on with business as usual, and do whatever they please. The only time we are supposed to act contrary to the guidance of our spiritual leaders is when their guidance is unbiblical. Clearly Elder Wilson's guidance is from above, and should be honored.

Elder Attiken, please reconsider what you are doing. Stop promoting what God is rebuking. Elder Attiken, tear down this Conference on Innovation. Be done with the mingling of the sacred with the profane. Return to the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy as your only reading material. Tell your people that you will now lead the Ohio Conference in a manner that is consistent with the revealed will of God given to the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Tell your people that a new day is dawning in which all plans will be in accordance with the truth of Scripture and our Adventist heritage. Tell your people that you will no longer try to rearrange or abandon any guidance that God has graciously given us. Lead your people in a plain path of righteousness, put a halt to your current agenda, and they will gladly follow you into the future.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[BobRyan]

Here are a couple responses to Ohio Innovation that I found.

http://reclaimsda.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8:statement-of-concerns&catid=2:news

http://www.sdapartnersinconfusion.org/

Thank you for sharing that - it is good to know that some people associated with the Ohio Conference are trying to limit the extremes being promoted by some Ohio conference leaders.

in Christ,

Bob

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: olger

Now Bob! You have to be open-minded, tolerant, accepting, and progressive.

Now while I know you are being rather sarcastic and condesending there, I am going to use your post to make a point I was trying to make earlier.

No-one needs to be any of those things as far as their own spirituallity goes. Each is on their own personal path and their journey is their own. If these "Spiritual Formation" ideas don't work for a person, if they rub them the wrong way then they should not use them! I think its wise to actually look for the gold in the rust before dismissing them, but thats just my view.

What we have here however is paranoia and fear. Dire warnings and grave condemnation for all.If you step back for a moment and look at it clearly, those doing that are using the very tactics that they are condemning.

[Gibs]

This is happening in all the so called churches of Christendom and all the SDA's too.

A clip from EGW,

"By the pride of human wisdom, by contempt for the influence of the Holy Spirit, and by disrelish for the truths of God's word, many who profess to be Christians, and who feel competent to teach others, will be led to turn away from the requirements of God. Paul declared to Timothy, "The time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." {AA 504.2}

Speakers and teachers outside of the SDA church are being brought in. Why? Are we not to be a separate peculiar people to the world and of the worldly churches?

That is why she must get back to her first love or she will have fell back into the mama.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[CoAspen]

If the leader of our church thinks our beliefs/teachings are to come from the Bible and EGW, then "Houston, we have a problem"! She is spinning in her grave, because her message is being ignored......'return to the Bible', first last and always!!!

[BobRyan]

This is happening in all the so called churches of Christendom and all the SDA's too.

A clip from EGW,

"By the pride of human wisdom, by contempt for the influence of the Holy Spirit, and by disrelish for the truths of God's word, many who profess to be Christians, and who feel competent to teach others, will be led to turn away from the requirements of God. Paul declared to Timothy, "The time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables." {AA 504.2}

I just love that quote from 2Tim 4 -- it is so instructive. Thanks!

in Christ,

Bob

[lazarus]

Take your pick: the Kaisers, Sweet, Pagitt, Hirsch, Hagerty, Selmanovic, Lyons, Prager, Jenkins, etc. These presenters do not teach according to the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy. They do not have a grasp of the Great Controversy theme, and an acceptance of the specific identity and role of the remnant church of Bible prophecy. On the contrary, some of them teach concepts that are even outside of Christianity. They can be allowed to address our people only at great risk. They have had a weakening influence on our pastors, educators, and members.

Went to a Pastors meeting where Leornard Sweet spoke. I found nothing objectionable or unbiblical in his presentation. Of course he is not an SDA and does not believe all that we believe but his presentations were spiritual, interesting and thought provoking. Our Pastors we energized and challenged by the messages he presented.

Interestingly, his children have all attended the SDA elementary school in his community. His son was about to be baptized when he came to our meetings in May.

I don't know much about the other speakers you mentioned but I sent a personal email to our President to thank him for inviting Sweet. I encouraged him to invite more non SDA speakers.

I have to say that as an employee of the church I disagree with Pastor Wilson on this issue in the same way that many others have disagreed with Pastor Paulsen on other issues when he was in office. I have had non SDA's come to my church to speak and will continue to do so.

[BobRyan]

Wiccan prayer service conducted by pastor Samir

http://www.faithhousemanhattan.org/faith...emembrance.html

http://www.discernthetime.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=14102

Here we have the Ohio conference seeking help and guidance from Pastor Samir Selmanovic.

http://sdapartnersininnovation.org/page/past-conference-presenters

Samir Selmanovic is an SDA pastor in the NY conference -

So in this particular case the sin of the Ohio Conf was not restricted to "inviting a non-SDA to speak". I have heard a number of good non-SDA pastor that would never dream of going to the extremes in apostasy of having a wiccan service held in their churches as a form of community support and fellowship or religious instruction for their congregation.

in Christ,

Bob

[lazarus]

I've had the experience of refusing to allow an ordained SDA minister to speak at my church. His views were too extreme, in my humble opinion.

[Woody]

Quote:

Take your pick: the Kaisers, Sweet, Pagitt, Hirsch, Hagerty, Selmanovic, Lyons, Prager, Jenkins, etc. These presenters do not teach according to the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy. They do not have a grasp of the Great Controversy theme

Oh my. I pray to God that we are not so exclusive that we can only hear from those that teach as we do about the Bible, the SOP and the Great Controversy.

Oh Pllleeeze

[Guest]

That is why she must get back to her first love or she will have fell back into the mama.

"Will have fell back into the mama". I like that.

It would be nice if it didn't go that far, but I guess we'll see..

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

Wiccan prayer service conducted by pastor Samir

http://www.faithhousemanhattan.org/faith...emembrance.html

http://www.discernthetime.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=14102

Here we have the Ohio conference seeking help and guidance from Pastor Samir Selmanovic.

http://sdapartnersininnovation.org/page/past-conference-presenters

Samir Selmanovic is an SDA pastor in the NY conference -

So in this particular case the sin of the Ohio Conf was not restricted to "inviting a non-SDA to speak". I have heard a number of good non-SDA pastor that would never dream of going to the extremes in apostasy of having a wiccan service held in their churches as a form of community support and fellowship or religious instruction for their congregation.

in Christ,

Bob

Oh my, not the Wiccans

Next thing you know you will be letting some of those crazy Pagan/Druid/Heathen types post at Club Adventist.

You know all those types just go around killing babies, praising Satan, and looking to hurt Christians. Evil Evil Evil, the whole lot of them! May your God forbid that such twisted and sick people be allowed through the sacred and apparently sanctimoniously elitist doors of anything SDA right? Cause I mean you guys are the all and end all of everything good, right and holy. What was I ever thinking coming here trying to reason with people like you.

[Neil D]

No one can keep subjecting themselves to these things and not be changed undesirably in the wrong direction.

What?!?!? and lose our God given ability to choice??? that is never going to happen...It can not happen...we have a

choice..all the time...You make humans subject to thier circumstances...which is not true...

We have the ability to choose...

[Gibs]

We become changed by beholding. The proof is in the pudding. It comes in so amooth that the most don't even know it and become a part of something they should abhor. It's called the art of deception, more or less hypnotism.

Very few see the truth of the world affairs and the reasons for the trouble it is in around the entire glob. The same sort of deception has taken over every one of the "churches" in the world.

There is only ONE that the gates of hell have not prevailed against. It is the "Ekklesia" "the called out ones". The Old Testament name for church was "convocations" and it meant "something called out".

The True Worshippers worship Him today in Truth and in Spirit. And the world over it's a large "convocation" or "ekklesia". Spiritual Members make up His Spiritual Body we commonly call Church.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Neil D]

We become changed by beholding. The proof is in the pudding. It comes in so amooth that the most don't even know it and become a part of something they should abhor. It's called the art of deception, more or less hypnotism.

We are counseled to behold .....

We are to behold Christ on the Cross and those scenes that lead up to it and are given a time limit to behold...an hour a day...

Just what is the problem here, Gibbs?

[Gibs]

The problem is the beholding the practices that have come in not of Christ.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[BobRyan]

The path of error lies close along side the track of truth.

SF asks us to "imagine" beings talking with us.

By contrast we are told to enter in with imagination to the scenes of the crucifixion and behold Christ dying for our sins.

The new age spiritist notions of beings coming in a talking to us - and our talking back to them is all through the SF movement - but is not at all like the sanctified exercise in imagination that we find recommended to us in Desire of Ages.

in Christ,

Bob

[Neil D]

The problem is the beholding the practices that have come in not of Christ.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Every minister that I am aware of counsels to behold Christ...they counsel to behold those scenes that lead to His crucifixion...They encourage us to read EGW, they encourage us to grow spiritually...[i am sure that they would like some to grow up!] They encourage to trust the bible....

What are you encouraging us to do??? Fear something....fear anything "not of Christ"......Ever watch sheep, Gibbs? if in the course of being moved, one sheep jumps in a perticular spot, all sheep following will jump that spot also...whether there is a reason to jump or not....

You have encouraged fear..."it's the process" is your message...yet it's that very process that we are told to do to learn of Christ....It occurs to me, that you are trying to get us not to learn of Christ....This is, in my humble opinon, non-sense...

[BobRyan]

Wiccan prayer service conducted by pastor Samir

http://www.faithhousemanhattan.org/faith...emembrance.html

http://www.discernthetime.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=14102

Here we have the Ohio conference seeking help and guidance from Pastor Samir Selmanovic.

http://sdapartnersininnovation.org/page/past-conference-presenters

Samir Selmanovic is an SDA pastor in the NY conference -

So in this particular case the sin of the Ohio Conf was not restricted to "inviting a non-SDA to speak". I have heard a number of good non-SDA pastor that would never dream of going to the extremes in apostasy of having a wiccan service held in their churches as a form of community support and fellowship or religious instruction for their congregation.

[Gibs]

Hamilton,

My council is to see the stuff that has come in and put your shoulder to the wheel to boot it out. I think you've noticed I'm not the only poster here doing the same.

It's in your face, surely you can see it or I'd like to be in your particular church but I'm afraid it is infiltrated in it too. Here in this conference it is universal in them all.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Neil D]

Hamilton,

My council is to see the stuff that has come in and put your shoulder to the wheel to boot it out. I think you've noticed I'm not the only poster here doing the same.

It's in your face, surely you can see it or I'd like to be in your particular church but I'm afraid it is infiltrated in it too. Here in this conference it is universal in them all.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

And "boot" WHAT out? Fear???? Fear of what?

AS you have said, "by beholding we will become changed"...What are you beholding?? Fear!!!!

Sure there are others here pinching your brand of evangelism..fear..of something....

We preach Christ, and Him crucified. We behold Christ, and Him crucified. We preach friendship evangelism, and share the Good News about our Friend and Savior. The only thing that is "cut and dried", [black or white] is that Jesus loves you, cares for you, and desires your friendship. He just 'happens' to be King of the Universe, and saved you from something that you don't know about, Sin...and all the ramifications that Sin has brought to us.

and if that is wrong, Gibbs...then not only am I lost, but you are too....

[Gibs]

Hamilton,

The fear comes in when we bring in the occult practices into our worship instead of directly with Him. We have no need of some of men's rigamorole to do worship and to get Spiritual enlightenment. I would then be in fear it isn't pleasing in His sight.

The worship is the same now in Adventism as it is in all the other Sunday ones out there. Except for the Sabbath how much difference is there.

We are not to emerge together and be one in them but our concern is to be ONE IN JESUS CHRIST! Well yes you should fear from what I see but it is apparent you do not or will not see it.

So I've done all I can do, and that is to point out the problem.

The so called Christian world today has fallen to the well oiled orators of "smooth" things.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: BobRyan

Wiccan prayer service conducted by pastor Samir

http://www.faithhousemanhattan.org/faith...emembrance.html

http://www.discernthetime.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=14102

Here we have the Ohio conference seeking help and guidance from Pastor Samir Selmanovic.

http://sdapartnersininnovation.org/page/past-conference-presenters

Samir Selmanovic is an SDA pastor in the NY conference -

So in this particular case the sin of the Ohio Conf was not restricted to "inviting a non-SDA to speak". I have heard a number of good non-SDA pastor that would never dream of going to the extremes in apostasy of having a wiccan service held in their churches as a form of community support and fellowship or religious instruction for their congregation.

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

Oh my, not the Wiccans

... you guys are the all and end all of everything good, right and holy. What was I ever thinking coming here trying to reason with people like you.

If you are trying to post in favor of the Wiccans - then a clarification is in order.

I was not arguing against letting pagans and wiccans "post on the web".

I was pointing out the problem of letting them lead out in SDA worship services where they promote their wiccan form of worship "as if it were a good thing" for us to engage in during worship.

Hope that clears up your misunderstanding.

in Christ,

Bob

[lazarus]

Just what is the problem here, Gibbs?

I seems to me that there are some people who are simply repeating what they have read in books or videos attacking SF. I watched a sermon by an SDA "speaker" attacking SF. Much of his information was inaccurate and out of context. Of course there are errors and dangerous practitioners of SF but this hysteria that has been generated as a result of fear and ignorance.

Foster's book, Celebration of Discipline is one of the best books I have read on spirituality. Every Adventist would be blessed as a result of reading it. Most of those who have negative views about it have never even read the first page.

Our conference has started having spiritual retreats for the Pastors. I haven't been able to attend but everyone who has spoken about it has had a powerful experience. These are strong, spiritually grounded Adventists and are not unaware of the dangers of eastern mysticism.

[abelisle]

Hey Bob,

Do your homework. Samir is NOT employed by the GNYC conference. Hasn't been for a while. Doesn't consider himself to be an Adventist pastor. I know him personally.