Spiritual Formation in Adventism?

[Gibs]

BobRyan,

Thanks for the revealing post above my last one, page 10, wow!, very revealing information, really almost unbelieveabe. But what is unbelievable anymore?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

Quote:

Woody,

Would you care to explain what you find the "new theology" to be.

Like I stated Gibs - the New Theology in the church is legalism. Our prophet warned us that during the end days - this would be the challenge before us. And she was right.

[M. T. Cross]

Here is how Samir's Fath House promotes it's Wiccan service -

Quote:

This Fall we will be exploring how to cross boundaries into new spaces and meet "the other." In the US, Wiccans have been an example of a "minority" religion, often met with misunderstanding and at times with hostility. We want to learn about and from them and are welcoming them to Faith House!

The Temple of the Spiral Path will lead us in a celebration the of Samhain (pronounced Sow-en, from the Irish for “Summer’s end”) a sacred time of remembrance and harvest, one of the Eight Holidays known to modern Neo-Pagan witches as the Wheel of the Year. At Samhain, we gather the last fruits of the growing season and pause to reflect on all we have reaped during the light half of the year. The veil between the worlds is said to be thinnest at this time and so we take comfort in the closeness of the spirits of Nature, our Gods and Goddesses, and especially our Ancestors as we face the changing season and shorter days.

The Temple of the Spiral Path (www.templeofthespiralpath.org) represents the family of covens practicing the Shadowfolk Tradition of Witchcraft, which was founded in 1995, and includes Strangers’ Gate, Shadowfolk, and North Wyldewood Covens. For fifteen years we have produced a series of open and public Wheel of the Year rituals, as well as study groups and workshops exploring many aspects of Wicca. A special focus on the bardic arts and Celtic and Norse contributions to modern Witchcraft inform our work; however, we are not limited by these influences and anchor our tradition within the rich tapestry of the Western Mystery Tradition.

I am sure somewhere there is a point, but I fail to see it. Sorry

[Gibs]

Woody,

Would you have a quote of EGW's for that? I think you meant that the new theology is the right way as the old theology is what has been replaced by the new in a great degree in the 1950's I take it you believe the old to be legalism. You see in the old it never had the phrase "just believe and you are saved"

Anyway it is an issue I am well versed on as that is the reason for my departure back then.

I would be glad to discuss that issue very much but we better start a thread on it if we do.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[abelisle]

It's unbelievable how wrong you guys are! Bob doesn't have a clue about Samir and Faith House. If he hasn't noticed, Samir doesn't even bother associating with Spectrum in their forums for instance.

Samir was out of the GNYC when he set up Faith House so why waste time dragging him through the muck about something that most of you know nothing about on a personal level. Maybe you should get out of your Adventist ghetto and meet other people of other faiths and make friendships rather than take on a provincial "we have the truth and you are going to hell" mentality.

That's why I think it's a joke that Ted thinks Adventists can work NYC in their NAD urban evangelism push. Who in their right minds would want to affiliate with people like you in a religious setting? Instead of lambasting "spiritual formation" maybe you should be asking yourselves why the church is failing to reach indigenous white people in large urban areas?

See http://news.adventist.org/en/archive/art...6u2u0o.facebook

This applies to NYC as well.

Maybe more better educated people can see through the paucity of real love and spiritual health that Adventists claim to have as the "remnant church"?

Alex

[M. T. Cross]

^^^^applause^^^^

[Woody]

Quote:

You see in the old it never had the phrase "just believe and you are saved"

Well the "just believe and you are saved" is the original from scripture. So the NEW THEOLOGY of legalism is what I am referring to.

[Overaged]

^^^^applause^^^^

[olger]

Wikipedia - just today.

"Biography

Selmanovic grew up in the former Yugoslavia. While his father was Muslim and mother Christian, he was essentially brought up an atheist. He completed compulsory service in the army, becoming a Christian at age 18. He moved to the United States in 1990, where he completed several degrees. He is a Seventh-day Adventist,[3] yet believes no organized religion is perfect, and seeks to affirm aspects of other faiths."

From Crossroads website: http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/spirituality/lighthousetrails/08/9-sweet-adventist.htm

"The emerging church has been making inroads into Seventh Day Adventism as it has in most of "religion in the Western world." Roger Oakland, in his book Faith Undone, discusses Samir Selmanovic, a Muslim turned-Seventh Day Adventist pastor-turned emerging figure:

Samir Selmanovic ... has some interesting and alarming views on Christianity. He states:

"The emerging church movement has come to believe that the ultimate context of the spiritual aspirations of a follower of Jesus Christ is not Christianity but rather the kingdom of God.... to believe that God is limited to it [Christianity] would be an attempt to manage God. If one holds that Christ is confined to Christianity, one has chosen a god that is not sovereign. Soren Kierkegaard argued that the moment one decides to become a Christian, one is liable to idolatry."

enjoy,

gcw

[CoAspen]

Bravo!~!!!!

[M. T. Cross]

Quote:

yet believes no organized religion is perfect, and seeks to affirm aspects of other faiths."

See I totally agree with that.... but I have been saying that same thing since I have been here.

Quote:

"The emerging church movement has come to believe that the ultimate context of the spiritual aspirations of a follower of Jesus Christ is not Christianity but rather the kingdom of God.... to believe that God is limited to it [Christianity] would be an attempt to manage God. If one holds that Christ is confined to Christianity, one has chosen a god that is not sovereign. Soren Kierkegaard argued that the moment one decides to become a Christian, one is liable to idolatry."

I agree with most of that too, I think that the idolatry thing is a stretch but it can happen as well. Its kind of the whole can't see the forest for the trees approach.

I don't think Christ wanted anyone to worship him. I think he was providing a road to the Divine, a road that can work for many people

[Gibs]

abelisle,

None of the things coming in will accomplish the last gospel message to the world either. What will do it? The outpouring of the Holy Spirit which will be greater than the first Pentecost and those baptised of His Spirit will go forth sent of Him as in those days, where to go and not to go and also who is of Him and hands laid on them and Baptised of His Spirit. He sends them out, He fills them with His Spirit, He Ordains them, and not men and then the True Gospel message will go forth with Much Power and miracles will be done as was in the first. It's going to happen but first will come the working of Satan and we are seeing that now.

Spiritual exercises of men and those things will not play a part will be seen. He is the Head and sender and filler of His Spirit with His power and knows who to send and no false will be propigated.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[lazarus]

Spiritual exercises of men and those things will not play a part will be seen. He is the Head and sender and filler of His Spirit with His power and knows who to send and no false will be propigated.

Fasting, prayer, meditation, solitude, confession, are all spiritual exercises and Biblical. What man-made spiritual exercises are you seeing in the church?

[Gibs]

Woody,

This is what today is being preached as EGW states,

"Another doctrine that will be presented is that all we have to do is to believe in Christ—to believe that He has forgiven our sins, and that after we are forgiven, it is impossible for us to sin. This is a snare of Satan. It is true that we must believe in Christ. He is our only hope of salvation. But it also is true that we must work out our individual salvation daily in faith, not boastingly, but with fear and trembling. We are to use every power of our being in His service, and after we have done our utmost, we are still to regard ourselves as unprofitable servants. Divine power will unite with our efforts, and as we cling to God with the hand of faith, Christ will impart to us His wisdom and His righteousness. Thus, by His grace we shall be enabled to build upon the sure foundation." {CTr 364.4}

You got to know the devils believe and tremble and they know Him without a shadow of a doubt where we have never seen Him but are they saved, no. So it is a far deeper meaning to the come and believe in the Bible. Definitley one must first believe that Hi is who He says He is and that Salvation is through and of Him. Then He tells us noone comes to me except my Father draw him. We are drawn then to come to Him and Repent, die of the old sinful self and desire to be a new creature in Him. Then He can come and dwell within when the "house" is completely emptied as He cannot come into us until it is. We can only have one master as He is a Jealous Bridegroom.

I drop it this time with this clip from EGW,

"We have no hesitancy in telling you that in order to obtain the immortal inheritance and the eternal substance, you must be overcomers in this probationary life. Everything that blots and stains the soul must be removed, must be cleansed from the heart. We must know what it means to be a partaker of the divine nature, having escaped the corruptions that are in the world through lust. Are you willing to wage war against the lusts of the flesh? Are you ready to battle against the enemy of God and man? Satan is determined to enslave every soul if he can; for he is playing a desperate game to win the souls of men from Christ and eternal life. Will you permit him to steal from you the graces of the Spirit of God, and plant in you his own corrupt nature? or will you accept the great provision of salvation, and through the merits of the Infinite Sacrifice made in your behalf, become a partaker of the divine nature? God has given His only-begotten Son, that through His shame, suffering, and death, you might have glory, honor, and immortality."--Signs of the Times, June 15, 1891. {TDG 175.2}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gail]

Fasting, prayer, meditation, solitude, confession, are all spiritual exercises and Biblical. What man-made spiritual exercises are you seeing in the church?

There's the rub... Part of the problem is that I think that Christianity in general may have neglected this for years, leading to a void in the area and a need.

So, this might be where the exercises that are being warned against not only by Adventists but others like Roger Oakland got their IN.

But not only what you mentioned above, Lazarus, but other disciplines such as altruism and bearing one's cross patiently and even cheerfully are not emphasized like they used to be. Perhaps living is so much easier today that virtues like fortitude don't come into play in most people's modern lives.

But I am like you... I've read books about what is being warned against, but am still looking to find evidence of such in our Conference's churches. I've NEVER encountered the likes of a Eucharistic Jesus in the SDA churches here, and haven't heard from the pulpit at my church an endorsement of the New Age/Catholic-type prayer exercises listed. Perhaps I might still, I don't know... It made me think that we here in BC are behind what is happening in the US. I'm aware, though.

My boss, who also read Rick Howard's book (for example) has come to the conclusion that the SF movement (and spending time on it in warning books, etc) is another means of diverting our energies away from where we should be at this hour of history. He is a strong SDA, believing in the traditional message.

[olger]

Quote:

Samir Selmanovic, an Emergent Church leader, was a speaker at NIC 2008 and 2009. Selmanovic’s elevation of human experience is deliberately connected to his devaluation of the Bible. As expressed in his writings, “A biblical worldview in the recent past meant clinging to the maps at any cost. People are done with such idolatry…our Scriptures have spoken to us, and our lives ought to speak back. That's how we love our religions, not only by studying the itineraries of the Bible, but by adding our own.” http://www.faithhousemanhattan.org/ [ under “Your Religion IS Changing”…Feb 1, 2010] In the same article, Selmanovic also describes Shamanism as having certain advantages over other religions.

Are you OK with this, dear friends?

[olger]

Are you ok with these teachings - by an SDA elder (Brighton Colorado)?

"The teachings of Jesus went far beyond what is recorded in the bible, although for the most part they do not contradict the sacred scriptures."

"Your soul is a way station between your Spirit and your mental, emotional, and physical vehicles. It transmits messages from the Spirit to these vehicles and from these vehicles to the Spirit. It acts as a valve, allowing only a certain amount of Spirit to flow into your lower vehicles. God as Spirit also lives through you and learns from your life via this important soul/Spirit connection. As the soul becomes more refined, it permits more and more of Spirit to flow through you. You are on the path of enlightenment."

"The life you are now experiencing is the life you have created for yourself. No one else caused it. Your internal hologram of consciousness organizes external reality events. Your personal and professional environments are simply the third dimensional solidifications of your fourth dimensional thought forms. Change your thinking and you change your life. Your past is largely a fiction you maintain and your future is a vision that you will realize. Both are generated by consciousness and both can be altered by consciousness. Such is your power as a creator -- an awesome power indeed!"

"It is always tempting to complain about what is wrong with something rather than seek to discover what is right about it. By so doing, you give up all the leverage you need in order to change it. In ancient times this insight was worded as -- “resist not evil.” Focus on the good and evil flees from you. It is a simple matter of understanding the attraction and repulsion of psychic energies. The Lightworker focuses on light, not darkness. By so doing, she enlightens everything she touches."

"Less than one tenth of one percent of you has shown up in your current lifetime. Most of you is held in reserve in the higher dimensions. Unless you have contact with your essence in these dimensions -- you have no idea who you really are or what you bring to the table."

"If you succeed in your earth task -- you take that gain and add it to what you already are in the higher dimensions. That is how God learns through you. We see this in the Master, Jesus. He set aside his power and glory to come to earth, live like a common man, and thereby build a bridge from this fallen planet to heaven. Only late in life, did Jesus begin to remember who he really was or the details of his agreement with God the Father."

"Elementals are agents that implement Divine intentions and cause these intentions to manifest in high density matter. This is why they are called “the builders. Elementals can be thought of as the intervening variable between the intentions of Source and the realization of these intentions in creation. Without the builders, spiritual intentions would remain in the spiritual dimensions but would not be embodied in the lower dimensions. Elementals are created by Source for this purpose. Their function is a delegated function. Elementals are intelligent energies. We have no reference point for elementals in our high density third dimension, so elementals are invisible to us until we develop the necessary senses to perceive them. In this regard, they are like the wind. We don’t see the wind, but we know it is there by its effect on other things we can see. Elementals ordinarily do not communicate directly with humans but will communicate if they are approached in the right manner. They communicate with emotions and images rather than words. They do not respond well to your thoughts, but do respond to your intentions and your feelings. Elementals will take direction from your soul, angels, or highly developed human magicians who can invoke them and direct their activities. They can be very dangerous to any amateur fooling around with them who does not understand what he or she is doing. You work with elementals occurs in the realm of elemental magic. This requires the use of a magical circle for your protection."

"Everything in the third dimension has it’s template in the higher dimensions. Therefore, anything destroyed in the third dimension still exists as an energy form in the higher dimensions and can be visited. People mourn the destruction of the great library at Alexandria. The library still exists in the fourth dimension. You can visit it and read the books (assuming you understand the ancient languages). The template does not age. However, it exists in much less dense matter (astral matter). The books have no appreciable weight, take up next to no space and are more transparent."

"In the early stages of your spiritual journey you are likely to experience wide swings in your moods, psychic energy and sacred commitment. One day you will be up and the next day you will be down. On alternate days you will be either elated or depressed. Some days you feel close to Source and other days you will not. These core oscillations are natural in the early stages of your spiritual journey. Your soul has to learn by experience how to manage its energies as it makes its way through the good and bad experiences of life."

"The inner path of the mystic or Gnostic requires a mastery of at least the lower levels of consciousness. You will grow from there to the higher levels of consciousness. As you graduate from one level to another, you will realize how little of God’s universe is visible from our third dimension. You must be in at least the fourth dimension to receive direct angelic instruction, although angelic impressions and impulses may reach you while your consciousness is still focused primarily in the third dimension."

You have to decide - we all do.

[abelisle]

1) this is nothing but modern gnosticism - you can give it other names if you want

2) EGW was technically a mystic - we call her a prophet - she called herself a messenger

[Gibs]

Olger,

That would have been a real shocker in any SDA church 30 years ago but not today here in the Ohio conference and possible through most of the NAD.

Gail I do believe it may be better where you are but I bet it will probably get there like it is here.

I wish it wasn't but when it is in your face and can't put it away you know it then.

Yes I would not have set very long listening to the preaching you posted there Olger, I would have hustled to the door out!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[olger]

1) this is nothing but modern gnosticism - you can give it other names if you want

[M. T. Cross]

You know, I can understand why you guys don't want someone that teaches teachings that are opposite of SDA doctrine speaking on those things at an official SDA function. Especially any kind of Conference summit. But then I don't expect any leaders in Buddhism, New Age, Druidry, Wicca, Heathen, etc would invite any of you to a leadership summit of thiers either.

This however does not mean we can't all learn from each other outside of those 'official" functions.

[Neil D]

A rabbi once told some pharisees that if a movement is of God, you ain't gonna stop it. No matter what you do....And, btw, that rabbi was mentioned in Acts...

Jesus said that you will know a person by his fruits. President Bush made note of the efforts that Samir presented, efforts to break down spiritual barriers like prejudice, racism, and hatred between races and nationalities.....

I don't care what you guys are pedaling, but your bad mouthing God's servant, will not benefit you.....

[Gibs]

This verse ain't just whistling dixie,

2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

If we are His we are a separate people, called out ones of the world. This is what the church is called in the New Testament, Ekklesia,"called out ones". This is what the "Remnant" piece is, the same as the first, that few that are not of the world and stand out of it. We are in the world but cannot be of the world but of Jesus Christ and His Way and Only His Way will His Sheep go as they know His Voice by the quality known as TRUTH!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Overaged]

Your description of "remnant" does not match the Bible description.

[Gibs]

I maintain it is the last of the ones that are like the first, the called out ones and that is what the first is and was and the last end will be the same.

The gates of hell have already prevailed against all the rest if you can see it. Just like men, all have fallen short of the glory of God and the church structures today are cobblings of men so they too have fallen short. The one that has never fallen and will not as it is not of men but Of Jesus Christ and Him Only do the few in percentage wise today Are The Spiritual Members of That Spiritual Body, His Body whom is His Bride. They are the Ones Who Have Heard His Call and Have Come Out of the world and are Members Of His Church, Spiritual Body.

He Alone Ordains His Chosen ministers and sends them forth and of course the world don't heed them but heeds the ordained of men cobblers of "theology", Theory! That is all theology is, is theory. Away with theory, theology, we must have His TRUH, His Word on all matters, no theology.

This is where spiritual formation and the likes gets the "boot" from those who follow Only Him! Oh sure that is right with the majority of men.

Job 15:8 Hast thou heard the secret of God? and dost thou restrain wisdom to thyself?

Lu 11:49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:

1Co 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

1Co 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

Craftiness, spiritual formation and more as that is but one of the problems that have come in. The crafting and cobbling of men.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.