Omega?

[LifeHiscost]

Can anybody add some light to this statement?

Be not deceived; many will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. We have now before us the alpha of this danger. The omega will be of a most startling nature.

God blesses!

[Tom Wetmore]

Much wildly divergent speculation has been written about the omega of the heresy. Very little, if any of it, is correct.

I'll take my counsel from a friend in the White Estate that spent a fair bit of time researching this. The omega was prevented. It did not occur. It would have been the culmination of what is clearly identified as the alpha, or the beginning of the heresy of Kellogg. The alpha and the omega were the beginning and what would have been the result had the danger not been met. Ellen White clearly states that the danger was met. Her warnings were heeded. The risk of the omega was averted. End of story.

[aka]

Not being up-to-date happens in many cases when one is not informed.

The last 8 pages on this link-to-thread gives some good insight....

Click Here

[LifeHiscost]

Not being up-to-date happens in many cases when one is not informed.

The last 8 pages on this link-to-thread gives some good insight....

Click Here

[aka]

Dear Bro LHC,

We are actually in a topic thread pertaining to the Omega happenings in the SDA church.

I believe there is another topic thread dealing with the Nature of Jesus the Christ going on somewhere here at Club. That is probably where your comment wishes to be put.

Did you click on "Click Here" above and read the last 8 pages of the Omega thread at the other forum?

smile and wave to you from me...

[skyblue888]

LifeHiscost, I am sure you are aware that both the alpha and the omega would constitute an attempt to undermine the pillars of the advent faith. See 1 S.M.204,205.

The rejection of the most precious message of the righteousness of Christ by faith in His all-sufficient merits led to the rejection of Gospel Order between 1888 and 1903.

In 1907 this testimony was sent: "The self-confident management of men has resulted in putting God aside and accepting the devisings of men. If this order of things is allowed to continue, your faith will soon become extinct." T.M.481.

Between 1955 and 1957 the leaders of the General Conference held 18 secret meetings with representatives of the popular churches, the churches that constitute Babylon. During those meetings the foundation and central pillar of the advent faith, the sanctuary doctrine, was compromised, repudiated, along with the teaching that Jesus lived a sinless life in sinful flesh. The Sabbath was also compromised. After these compromises the denomination was recognized as Christian as opposed to being categorized as an anti-Christian cult.

Mrs. White had warned that the omega would be of a most startling nature and it was. (1 S.M.197)

After the 18 secret conferences that were held with the Evangelicals between 1955 and 1957, Martin, who was one of the Evangelicals who took part in these meetings, wrote,

"Since there is no conceivable doctrinal ground, in the light of verifiable evidence, where the fundamental tenets of the historic Gospel are concerned for refusing that outstretched hand, I for one encourage the extension of our hand which will usher in a new era of understanding and spiritual growth among the Church which is Christ's body." Movement of Destiny, Leroy Froom, p.475.

Martin sums up his seven-year search:

"After an exhaustive examination of the history and theology of the Seventh-day Adventist denomination covering a seven-year period, the last year and a half of which have been spent in top-level conferences with officials (representatives) of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists, this writer as a research polemicist has no hesitation whatsoever in stating that those previous positions so widely seized upon by the enemies of Adventism have been totally repudiated by the Seventh-day Adventist denomination for some years. To charge the majority of Adventists today with holding these heretical views is unfair, inaccurate, and decidedly unchristian." p.473.

Heretical views: That Christ had taken upon Himself our sinful flesh and our sanctuary doctrine teaching a final phase of the atonement beginning on the 22nd of October 1844. These two, especially.

In its March 3, 1958 issue, the religious journal, Christianity Today, states:

"The Adventists today are contending vigorously that they are truly evangelical. They appear to want to be so regarded."

Mentioning the book, Questions on Doctrine, it says that this "is the Adventist answer to the question whether it ought to be thought of as a sect or a fellow evangelical denomination."

It states that "the book" is published in an effort to convince the religious world that we are evangelical and one of them!

M.L. Andreason responded:

"This is a most interesting and dangerous situation. As one official who was not in favor of what was being done stated to me: 'We are being sold down the river.' What a sight for Heaven and earth! The church of the living God which has been given the commission to preach the gospel to every creature under heaven and call men to come out of Babylon, is now standing at the door of these churches asking permission to enter and become one of them. How are the mighty fallen!"

There is no way the evangelicals could have said what they have said after these meetings if we had maintained the main pillars of our faith!

sky

[LifeHiscost]

SKY, I'm grateful for your thorough inclusion of facts as relating to the church's leaders and their positions re: doctrinal position. It really verifies strongly to me, the importance and reality of three specific principles of Jesus as it needs to be applied by individuals that desire to be yoked to Jesus as Savior, Friend, Master, and Lord.

"Jesus answered them and said, “My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me. If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority. He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him."

John 7:16-18 NKJV

"One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind."Romans 14:5 NKJV

"Now these [Jews] were better disposed and more noble than those in Thessalonica, for they were entirely ready and accepted and welcomed the message [concerning the attainment through Christ of eternal salvation in the kingdom of God] with inclination of mind and eagerness, searching and examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so."Acts 17:11 AMP brackets theirs, all bold mine LHC

God blesses!

[lazarus]

During those meetings the foundation and central pillar of the advent faith, the sanctuary doctrine, was compromised, repudiated, along with the teaching that Jesus lived a sinless life in sinful flesh. The Sabbath was also compromised. After these compromises the denomination was recognized as Christian as opposed to being categorized as an anti-Christian cult.

So the SDA church no longer teaches the sanctuary doctrine?

What concessions did the SDA church make concerning the Sabbath?

[Dr. Waite]

Concessions regarding the Sabbath.

There are "Oasis" churches or fellowships owned by the SDA conference where the pastors or their associates organize teams and play softball on the Sabbath. Would this be a concession regarding the Sabbath?

[lazarus]

Concessions regarding the Sabbath.

There are "Oasis" churches or fellowships owned by the SDA conference where the pastors or their associates organize teams and play softball on the Sabbath. Would this be a concession regarding the Sabbath?

I think what was being referred to would be an official action by the world church not necessarily the actions of a few churches or Pastors.

[John317]

So the SDA church no longer teaches the sanctuary doctrine?

Millions of SDAs do believe the sanctuary doctrine, and it is one of our official Fundamental Beliefs, but many of our leaders and pastors neither believe it nor preach it. In many of our conferences, one almost never hears a sermon about it.

I must say, though, that I was delighted to see the SS Lesson Quarterly devoted to the topic about a year ago.

I called about a dozen churches in Southern California and asked the secretary or the pastor how often they heard or gave sermons in their respective churches on the Investigative Judgment, and I found only two churches where the response was that they often did. Most said that they never have.

I talked at length with one pastor in a very prominant SDA church who told me straight out that he didn't believe in the Investigative Judgment. I asked another well-known SDA pastor what he believed happened in heaven in 1844, and he answered that he didn't know.

So while it's true that the SDA church officially believes it, it seems obvious to me and to many others that the church has some serious problems with this central doctrine.

[John317]

Can anybody add some light to this statement?

Be not deceived; many will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. We have now before us the alpha of this danger. The omega will be of a most startling nature.

I believe that whatever form the Omega takes, it will not be a direct assault on the church's doctrines but will appear to be something positive and good to the vast majority of SDAs.

[lazarus]

Millions of SDAs do believe the sanctuary doctrine, and it is one of our official Fundamental Beliefs, but many of our leaders and pastors neither believe it nor preach it. In many of our conferences, one almost never hears a sermon about it.

So while it's true that the SDA church officially believes it, it seems obvious to me and to many others that the church has some serious problems with this central doctrine.

What you say is true but I would say that is not a result of some secret conspiracy to remove the doctrine but a consequence of the whole Ford experience. One of my professors in seminary was the professor who replaced at Avondale. I asked him about his personal opinion of the what happened to Ford and what he was teaching. His reply was "you don't expect me to answer that do you?".

It's easier to believe in an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory than face the reality of the shift in Adventist culture.

[lazarus]

[John317]

I don't think it's a result of a conspiracy by humans, although I have no doubt there's a bigger conspiracy that's responible for the blindness of many SDAs with respect to the Investigative Judgment. Satan knows that should the majorty of SDAs understand the doctrine and practice it, Christ's coming would happen sooner than later. He's determind to delay it as long as possible.

I'm not denying, though, that there are some SDAs as well as former SDAs who are working against the Investigative Judgment and in order to bring marked changes into the SDA church. Obviously Dr.Ford et al are among those who are attempting to do this. Many of Ford's followers have remained in the SDA church and are in some influential positions in the church. They would like to see changes made in our church.

[John317]

... I would say that is not a result of some secret conspiracy to remove the doctrine but a consequence of the whole Ford experience.

Yes, that's true, but the Ford experience was itself a consequence of other, earlier actions and attitudes of the church against 1844 and the Investigative Judgment.

Why is there-- or has there been-- such resistence against the Investigative Judgment?

I believe the real reason is a love of sin and an unwillingness to part with the things we would need to give up if we were to put the Investigative Judgment into practice in our individual lives. It calls for radical changes and for separating sin from us. It's not a popular teaching, although it should be since it's about freedom and joy in Christ.

[Gibs]

The Sanctuary Doctrine is the PILLAR of SDAdventism. That will stand even though the church falls.

The Omega is in her now and has been beginning with a change in theology of Salvation many years ago, then known as the "new salvation theology" and now for quite a few years now several things have come in and these last ones are a sell out of Adventism being separate from the worldly churches but now emerging in with them.

It's not only a NOWO of the world but of the churches and the TRUE Church MUST be separate! (New One World Order) The push is we are all one and the churches can no more cling together than the ten toes of Dan.2:,

The only TRUE ONENESS comes from being ONE in Christ Jesus.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[BobRyan]

Millions of SDAs do believe the sanctuary doctrine, and it is one of our official Fundamental Beliefs, but many of our leaders and pastors neither believe it nor preach it. In many of our conferences, one almost never hears a sermon about it.

I must say, though, that I was delighted to see the SS Lesson Quarterly devoted to the topic about a year ago.

I called about a dozen churches in Southern California and asked the secretary or the pastor how often they heard or gave sermons in their respective churches on the Investigative Judgment, and I found only two churches where the response was that they often did. Most said that they never have.

I talked at length with one pastor in a very prominant SDA church who told me straight out that he didn't believe in the Investigative Judgment. I asked another well-known SDA pastor what he believed happened in heaven in 1844, and he answered that he didn't know.

So while it's true that the SDA church officially believes it, it seems obvious to me and to many others that the church has some serious problems with this central doctrine.

I had the new Years sermon in my church last Sabbath - I preached on the 3 Angels message and pointed out that the first angels message is the "Everlasting Gospel" and contains the Investigative Judgment of Daniel 7 that began in 1844.

I also went into the subject of just why it is that this matters to us.

That includes the fact that Rev 15:8 tells us that the High Priestly Ministry of Christ ends just before the Rev 16 seven last plagues begin.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Can anybody add some light to this statement?

Be not deceived; many will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. We have now before us the alpha of this danger. The omega will be of a most startling nature.

God blesses!

Very important warning - and the Omega is here.

The Alpha was the issue of the living temple - pantheism.

It was not very popular outside of the SDA church - and in fact was not popular inside the SDA church outside of a few proponents in Battle Creek.

But the Omega (theistic evolution) is very popular outside of the SDA church and has overtaken almost all of the mainline Christian denominations. In 3SG 90-91 Ellen White calls it "the WORST form of infidelity" because it is "infidelity in disguise".

in Christ,

Bob

[lazarus]

The Sanctuary Doctrine is the PILLAR of SDAdventism.

I strongly disagree.

A structure that I am familiar with that has one pillar is Nelson's Column in London. It's function is to support a statue of Lord Nelson. It's a monument to a dead war hero. That structure has no use but to serve as a reminder of past glories.

Functional structures tend to have several columns. The Seventh-day Adventist church traditionally has had five pillars. They are interconnected and equally important. Are you saying that the everlasting gospel is not a pillar or how about the Sabbath?

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

The Sanctuary Doctrine is the PILLAR of SDAdventism.

I strongly disagree.

A structure that I am familiar with that has one pillar is Nelson's Column in London. It's function is to support a statue of Lord Nelson. It's a monument to a dead war hero. That structure has no use but to serve as a reminder of past glories.

Functional structures tend to have several columns. The Seventh-day Adventist church traditionally has had five pillars. They are interconnected and equally important. Are you saying that the everlasting gospel is not a pillar or how about the Sabbath?

[Woody]

[BobRyan]

I like the Sabbath School Lesson for the 2nd week in January 2012. At the end of the lesson - the T.E error is identified as the "worst form of infidelity" because as the lesson states "it is infidelity in disguise". A pretty good candidate for "omega".

in Christ,

Bob

[Gibs]

Lazarus, If you are a SDA then this is meaningful, if not it is not,

I will give you EGW's statement on the Pillars and the rest is up to you.

"The scripture which above all others had been both the foundation and central pillar of the Advent faith was the declaration, "Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed." [Daniel 8:14.] These had been familiar words to all believers in the Lord's soon coming. By the lips of thousands was this prophecy joyfully repeated as the watchword of their faith. All felt that upon the events therein brought to view depended their brightest expectations and most cherished hopes. These prophetic days had been shown to terminate in the autumn of 1844. In common with the rest of the Christian world, Adventists then held that the earth, or some portion of it, was the sanctuary, and that the cleansing of the sanctuary was the purification of the earth by the fires of the last great day. This they understood would take place at the second coming of Christ. Hence the conclusion that Christ would return to the earth in 1844." {4SP 258.1}

It became the "sanctuary" doctrine when it was realized it was the Sanctuary in Heaven that was to be cleansed and not the earth.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Woody]

That is fine and dandy Gibs. But not everything our prophet ever breathed was correct. And there are always other quotes that go against what she once stated. IOWs she frequently changed her mind.

I don't see a "And I was shown" here. Can you show me some authoritative proof?