The Religious Right and Socialism???

[BobRyan]

The focus of the "Religious Right" tends to be on moral issues like abortion, gay marriage, school prayer, educational vouchers, relations with Israel and other such things.

Amen!

Though I would say "allowing prayer in school"

But the voucher issue is strictly economics not morals.

And I agree that we have a moral obligation to honor our contracts, agreements etc with allies - I do not agree that there is a moral obligation to promote all things that Israel may choose to do or that it is God that wants a non-Christian state of Israel.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

That is kinda how I think, living in Canada. Everyone gives a little and everyone benefits- even me, when the need arises.

I have never heard anyone here complain about paying into medical insurance, even though it is compulsory.

So in that respect it might even be better than charity, because charity is awarded according to who is accessible and according to how much is on hand.

Canada has a "waitlist" problem that is just like England when it comes so getting access to health care. That does not exist in the US.

Canada also has a trend of Canadians coming to the US when they need healthcare of a certain level.

We could adopt all the problems of the Canadian healthcare system and that would put an end to this differences.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

The measured outcomes of healthcare for this country vs GB or Canada are not higher. Speed of access is not a measure of better nor is the availability of technology.

Tell that to a patient in urgent need of major surgery.

They come here from Canada "for a reason".

[Gail]

Tell that to a patient in urgent need of major surgery.

They come here from Canada "for a reason".

This might differ from place to place, but here, if your situation becomes urgent, you get bumped up quickly.

Sometimes I do wish that there was a 2-tiered system, so that those who want certain procedures can pay if they wish.

[M. T. Cross]

Our medical system has its flaws to be sure but I for one am very grateful for it.

I wish that Canada would go to an even more socialist system, much like those in Norway and Sweden where the standard of living is better than most places in the world. I don't think it would work well here unfortunately though.

[olger]

Norway has a better standard of living because it is the third largest supplier of oil in the world, and has only five million people total.

[Tom Wetmore]

But don't forget that Norway's taxes are among the highest at 41% of GDP. That revenue is mostly spent on public services. That lifts the quality of life for everyone, not just the rich.

[M. T. Cross]

But don't forget that Norway's taxes are among the highest at 41% of GDP. That revenue is mostly spent on public services. That lifts the quality of life for everyone, not just the rich.

That right there. I would have no problem with paying higher taxes (though Canada is highly taxed already) if it was spent on public services.

Yes Olger - part of why Norway is doing so well is because of the oil. I was reading somewhere the other day that a huge amount of the revenue from the government run oil companies there is being held in reserve for when the oil runs out as well.

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore

But don't forget that Norway's taxes are among the highest at 41% of GDP. That revenue is mostly spent on public services. That lifts the quality of life for everyone, not just the rich.

That right there. I would have no problem with paying higher taxes (though Canada is highly taxed already) if it was spent on public services.

Yes Olger - part of why Norway is doing so well is because of the oil. I was reading somewhere the other day that a huge amount of the revenue from the government run oil companies there is being held in reserve for when the oil runs out as well.

That's very true EC, Tom. Here in Mass we pay higher taxes, that's why Mass is called Taxachusetts. They have many public services, which I for one I'm very thankful for, otherwise we would've lost our grandchildren.

[Ted Oplinger]

I would like to know why it is that social compassion and helping my brother is today framed ONLY within the framework of socialist redistribution, instead of the Biblical charitable help...

It seems too many of our ideas and beliefs about human values are necessarily defined by our culture and government, instead of the Bible.

Blessings...

[Stan]

nice to see wisdom speak, welcome back.

[Gail]

Would I be wrong in guessing that is Iron Deacon?

Yes- long time no see!

[Gail]

Ha! I just saw that it says Iron Deacon in his signature. Good guess!!!

It IS good to see you here again! :)

[debbym]

Quote:

I would like to know why it is that social compassion and helping my brother is today framed ONLY within the framework of socialist redistribution, instead of the Biblical charitable help...

this reminds me of whenever i would discuss helping others, no one could talk about it without saying it was just co-dependency.

so everyone felt much better about being not co-dependent while they did nothing to help others. they seemed so proud of how healthy they were to see great need and not feel any urge to do anything about it.

so now if you help others you are being politically incorrect, being a socialist at least, a commie at worst, according to one perspective.

i think those who are politically motivated will exploit anything and everything to pursue their intentions. I can really only guess. I suspect we want to be approved of, we want to see those we like in power, and if this means some increase in the population group of those who go without.... hmm.... i wonder if human need is devalued as a matter of concern... perhaps the thought is ...there is already so much human suffering what difference does it really make.

debjm

[doug yowell]

Why is it that when people want to draw a line SOMEWHERE in the taxable demands of government sand that they are called "uncompassionate"? Since the overwhelming majority of those in the "Religious Right" are NOT AGAINST GOVERNMENTAL SUPPORTS of the needy why is it imperative to paint them as all being against any government distribution of help? I know few on the Religious Right that advocate a complete demolition of all governmental aid. So why do those on the "religious left" have the need to misportray their position?

[doug yowell]

I would like to know why it is that social compassion and helping my brother is today framed ONLY within the framework of socialist redistribution, instead of the Biblical charitable help...

It seems too many of our ideas and beliefs about human values are necessarily defined by our culture and government, instead of the Bible.

Blessings...

I agree with your latter statement. But to be consistent with your proposed principle you must include the protection of unborn human life in your context of both biblical charitable help and the value of human life being defined by the Bible. Are you also willing to appeal to the Biblical view of the unborn as a reason why people should morally be obligated to support governmental protections of the unborn? Or does that cross some church/state line which forbids governmental support of a religious concept from which "compassion" is exempted?

[doug yowell]

AND why were they called righteous?

>>>Then the righteous will answer him

So,Stan, you're saying that if I give heavily to private or church organizations that do effectively the work of "compassion" (missions,drug rehab programs, prison ministries,adoption agencies, World Vision,ad infinitum)and I personally give of my own time to the support of the less fortunate but oppose the raising of my taxes to less effectively attempt to provide the same services, I am not compassionate and thus in violation of a biblical mandate?

[doug yowell]

[Narcah]

For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. -2 Thessalonians 3:10

Or have free phones...

Or have free $$...

Or have free cars...

Or have free...

[Stan]

The issue is for those who can't work for whatever reason.

A food bank I was involved with had 95% one time users. That figure irritated the Christian community. Good thing there was dome pork eating heathens to help out.

[olger]

I like that 95%

g

[Stan]

if we are going to err, we should err on the side of compassion - EGW

[aldona]

if we are going to err, we should err on the side of compassion - EGW

Mother Teresa used to say something similar to her sisters. "It would be better for you to make mistakes with kindness, than to work miracles with unkindess."

AJ

[Tom Wetmore]

[doug yowell]

The issue is for those who can't work for whatever reason.

A food bank I was involved with had 95% one time users. That figure irritated the Christian community. Good thing there was dome pork eating heathens to help out.

I'm one of those religious righters and I support the unable 100% The problem remains that the opposers of the religious right (who shall remain nameless) make no differentiation between the two groups.It's the poor, the poor, the poor no matter what the reason. The Bible nor Ellen White gives no instruction to give blindly and keep giving until everyone who is asking is happy. No doubt some RRers don't get the compassion part but can we assure ourselves that the opposite extreme is really the middle of the road? Especially when it comes to taxes???