The Religious Right and Socialism???

[joeb]

Originally Posted By: joeb

olger,

You make good points. This idea that it is Christian to take money from someone else's pocket to do good is not Biblical. Nor, is it Christian to enforce the taking money from person A to give to person B at the point of a gun, which is what taxation is.

Charity is to come from the heart or it is worthless.

I think we can all agree that taxation is not Christian,period. It is, however, a necessary part of a secular civil government. And charity that does not come from the heart is not worthless to the one receiving it. It may have no intrinsic moral value but it is nevertheless not worthless but rather helpful in creating a kinder more cohesive society. Therefore it is not unChristian to pay or collect taxes. The problems arise when we try to create a moral Christian mandate out of a redistribution welfare system that has so many undeserving and wasteful tenticles. There are few (but some)among conservatives that believe that the real needy should be left out on their own. But a welfare system that rewards irresponsible behavior just because it ends up in poverty is just as heartless as one that refuses to help anyone for any reason.

And it is highly immoral to spend to the point where our children's children's childrens children will still be paying off the debt we have created. That is exactly what we are doing. Take a look at my post earlier in this thread on how long it is going to take to pay off the debt we have created, and are continuing to create with no end deficit spending in sight. If we stopped all deficit spending right now, and began paying off our national debt at $1 trillion/year it would take us more than 120 years to pay off our advertised debt plus all our unfunded liabilities.

[Ted Oplinger]

That is, joeb, if we stopped all additional spending NOW, and payed off what has been encumbered already.

Of course, that means all infrastructure and military expenditures (the Constitutionally mandated government functions) would cease immediately for the next 120 years. Not to mention the welfare subsidizing...

Blessings,

[joeb]

That is, joeb, if we stopped all additional spending NOW, and payed off what has been encumbered already.

Of course, that means all infrastructure and military expenditures (the Constitutionally mandated government functions) would cease immediately for the next 120 years. Not to mention the welfare subsidizing...

Blessings,

No. If we paid off the debt at $1 trillion a year, after arriving at a balanced budget, we would still have government funding. Government would just be reduced in size and scope from what it is now. However, I think if we got serious about paying off our debt and cut back government spending our economy would take off. Our dollar would also increase in value. Together these two things would greatly increase our GDP and thus our tax base. This would allow us to pay the debt off more rapidly. And lower the poverty rate in this country.

Deficit spending is what is killing our economy.

[olger]

No. If we paid off the debt at $1 trillion a year, after arriving at a balanced budget, we would still have government funding. Government would just be reduced in size and scope from what it is now. However, I think if we got serious about paying off our debt and cut back government spending our economy would take off. Our dollar would also increase in value. Together these two things would greatly increase our GDP and thus our tax base. This would allow us to pay the debt off more rapidly. And lower the poverty rate in this country.

Deficit spending is what is killing our economy.

The ominous thing is - I think Washington knows this. They have to.

[olger]

http://advindicate.com/?p=2968

[Ted Oplinger]

Joeb,

$1 Trillion is a lot of surplus to generate in addition to meeting our current obligations. In order to generate that kind of surplus, many departments of the government would have to be severely scaled back, given over to state jurisdiction, or eliminated. What budget items remained, would have to be semi-frozen to keep pace with the need to generate the surplus needed to pay the deficit off at $1 Trillion/year.

It is the exact opposite of what we have now in Washington - where political expenditures are made to purchase voting blocks and elections, regardless of the long-term effect on the country.

There is no free lunch. We either have all of this "important" government (aka, social programs, environmental protection, academia/government complex, and military/industrial complex), or we can do with the bare essentials of government for 120 years - and become a strong nation again.

Since every single one of the parenthesis items is attached to issues "only the Federal Government can solve", it is only a matter of time before the mega-crash hits, as there does not exist a core group of public servants in power who have the spine and the courage to face down the government/media complex and do what will be correct - but vastly unpopular.

The only way I see the dollar can gain strength now, is to turn off the printing presses, begin to pull dollars out of the money supply at the rate they were printed, and index the remaining money supply to a hard standard.

Of course, there is no quicker way to see the economy collapse now, than to do just this. Every influx of dollars from the printing presses is like a drug fix to still the withdrawal symptoms of a nation addicted to too much public spending and no personal responsibility. Yet, this will work only so long as the dollar remains the world's reserve currency.

Right now, major economies are seeing the writing on the wall, and are engaging in direct currency exchanges for import/exports. Many have openly rejected doing business in dollars.

Yet Washington will not change. Our leaders are determined to destroy the economy of this country, thinking that in doing so, they will come out ahead. Nothing will be further from the truth.

Blessings,

[joeb]

Joeb,

$1 Trillion is a lot of surplus to generate in addition to meeting our current obligations. In order to generate that kind of surplus, many departments of the government would have to be severely scaled back, given over to state jurisdiction, or eliminated. What budget items remained, would have to be semi-frozen to keep pace with the need to generate the surplus needed to pay the deficit off at $1 Trillion/year.

It is the exact opposite of what we have now in Washington - where political expenditures are made to purchase voting blocks and elections, regardless of the long-term effect on the country.

There is no free lunch. We either have all of this "important" government (aka, social programs, environmental protection, academia/government complex, and military/industrial complex), or we can do with the bare essentials of government for 120 years - and become a strong nation again.

Since every single one of the parenthesis items is attached to issues "only the Federal Government can solve", it is only a matter of time before the mega-crash hits, as there does not exist a core group of public servants in power who have the spine and the courage to face down the government/media complex and do what will be correct - but vastly unpopular.

The only way I see the dollar can gain strength now, is to turn off the printing presses, begin to pull dollars out of the money supply at the rate they were printed, and index the remaining money supply to a hard standard.

Of course, there is no quicker way to see the economy collapse now, than to do just this. Every influx of dollars from the printing presses is like a drug fix to still the withdrawal symptoms of a nation addicted to too much public spending and no personal responsibility. Yet, this will work only so long as the dollar remains the world's reserve currency.

Right now, major economies are seeing the writing on the wall, and are engaging in direct currency exchanges for import/exports. Many have openly rejected doing business in dollars.

Yet Washington will not change. Our leaders are determined to destroy the economy of this country, thinking that in doing so, they will come out ahead. Nothing will be further from the truth.

Blessings,

I agree with all of that, Ted. It's exactly what we need to do, but the political will is missing, and the politicians aren't about to start speaking truthfully about what needs to be done.

I can only think of one or two of our politicians who actually care enough about our country and those who will follow us to speak the truth and do their constitutional duty, and their voices are lost in all the "noise" about how our debt isn't really a problem....

Our society has come to truly believe that all society's ills are the purview of the government, and its a blatantly false supposition. We rose to power as a nation without all this junk, and ever since we started believing that government was the cure for all our ills we have gone steadily downhill, morally and economically.

[OzarkWoman]

Originally Posted By: Ted Oplinger

Joeb,

$1 Trillion is a lot of surplus to generate in addition to meeting our current obligations. In order to generate that kind of surplus, many departments of the government would have to be severely scaled back, given over to state jurisdiction, or eliminated. What budget items remained, would have to be semi-frozen to keep pace with the need to generate the surplus needed to pay the deficit off at $1 Trillion/year.

It is the exact opposite of what we have now in Washington - where political expenditures are made to purchase voting blocks and elections, regardless of the long-term effect on the country.

There is no free lunch. We either have all of this "important" government (aka, social programs, environmental protection, academia/government complex, and military/industrial complex), or we can do with the bare essentials of government for 120 years - and become a strong nation again.

Since every single one of the parenthesis items is attached to issues "only the Federal Government can solve", it is only a matter of time before the mega-crash hits, as there does not exist a core group of public servants in power who have the spine and the courage to face down the government/media complex and do what will be correct - but vastly unpopular.

The only way I see the dollar can gain strength now, is to turn off the printing presses, begin to pull dollars out of the money supply at the rate they were printed, and index the remaining money supply to a hard standard.

Of course, there is no quicker way to see the economy collapse now, than to do just this. Every influx of dollars from the printing presses is like a drug fix to still the withdrawal symptoms of a nation addicted to too much public spending and no personal responsibility. Yet, this will work only so long as the dollar remains the world's reserve currency.

Right now, major economies are seeing the writing on the wall, and are engaging in direct currency exchanges for import/exports. Many have openly rejected doing business in dollars.

Yet Washington will not change. Our leaders are determined to destroy the economy of this country, thinking that in doing so, they will come out ahead. Nothing will be further from the truth.

Blessings,

I agree with all of that, Ted. It's exactly what we need to do, but the political will is missing, and the politicians aren't about to start speaking truthfully about what needs to be done.

I can only think of one or two of our politicians who actually care enough about our country and those who will follow us to speak the truth and do their constitutional duty, and their voices are lost in all the "noise" about how our debt isn't really a problem....

Our society has come to truly believe that all society's ills are the purview of the government, and its a blatantly false supposition. We rose to power as a nation without all this junk, and ever since we started believing that government was the cure for all our ills we have gone steadily downhill, morally and economically.

both posts!!!