miz3 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Originally Posted By: BibleOnly Esp when you guys quote EW to prove bible passages wrong, as has happened to me several times. Show examples of where her writings have been quoted to prove the Bible wrong. We have shown this on other threads and actually made a point of pointing this very thing out to you specifically. You have chosen to ignore those moments. This is also off topic. Please return to the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miz3 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Originally Posted By: John317 Ellen White's writings do NOT have priority over Scripture. Originally Posted By: Woody That's kind of deceptive. Does the SDA Church teach that Ellen White's writings have priorty over Scripture? What did Ellen White say regarding the relationship between her writings and the Bible? We do not judge you by what you say. We judge you by what we see practicing. Reread Woody's extremely relevant post that answers this very question. Again you are stalling. I guess you cannot show from the Bible and the Bible only the Sanctuary/IJ/1844. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miz3 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Originally Posted By: BibleOnly But she says things that the Bible does not say. Did Joshua say things that Moses did not say? Did Paul say things that are not found in the rest of the Bible? Isn't that different from saying she contradicts the Bible? Wouldn't we expect that God's prophet would say some things not found in the Bible? More stalling. Ho Hum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miz3 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Quote: See, I think the difference between what I said and what you said is all semantics :-) The difference is that I've been an SDA all my life and so I can get away with sayin' it. You can't. smile smile. And while it is similar - there are important distinctions. One is that the church beliefs are not like this - it is just a large bunch of ultra conservatives who give us a bad name. True. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kevin H Posted January 5, 2012 Moderators Share Posted January 5, 2012 Your test is flawed. The book is sealed, and now, anyone who adds to the bible, is cursed for it. Deuteronomy said that it was closed, thus if we follow your logic then every thing written after Deuteronomy is by false prophets. Second: As the apostels were dieing off, John was telling us about the importance of prophets for continuing church history. Are you saying that John was a lier??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleOnly Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 "Deuteronomy said that it was closed, thus if we follow your logic then every thing written after Deuteronomy is by false prophets. " Where did it say that ? What future writer wrote about the same events as those written in Deuteronomy ? Does Ellen White not add detail to your understanding of what happens in Revelation ? Are you saying that Deuteronomy lied so it's OK for Revelation to lie, too ? "Second: As the apostels were dieing off, John was telling us about the importance of prophets for continuing church history. Are you saying that John was a lier???" I don't know what a lier is. John was not a liar, in fact it's you who think he was. Paul wrote in 1 Cor 14 that every Christian can and should seek to prophecy. It's the SDA that limits this gift to one person in the last 2000 years. And it's so frustrating to me that when I insult your false prophet, you all come out of the woodwork, but no-one can show where any Bible verse says any of the things you claim about 1844. I took the time to post specific rebuttals from the SDA site and no-one has answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Quote: It's the SDA that limits this gift to one person in the last 2000 years. And it's so frustrating to me that when I insult your false prophet, you all come out of the woodwork, but no-one can show where any Bible verse says any of the things you claim about 1844. I took the time to post specific rebuttals from the SDA site and no-one has answered. How many times does one have to explain that we have access to all the gifts including the gift of prophecy. It still does not mean that we all will have that gift anymore than not all of us have the gift of tongues. Some do some don't. And the reason that you don't get more rebuttals is because you put out so many down right false claims and straw men about us that it gets rather hopeless to try to defend when you will just continue to throw out error. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miz3 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 There is a parallel discussion going on in the "Real Issues In Adventism" forum on Club Adventist that is discussing whether SDA Doctrines can be supported without Ellen White. In that discussion they are running into the exact same problem that the "orthodox" SDA Church .org ones are having here. They cannot support the Sanctuary/Investigative Judgment/1844 from the Bible and the Bible only. All we get is their claims but no actual Bible and Bible only Truthfulness about this subject. Why cannot the SDA Church .org just simply admit that this Doctrine comes from Ellen White and her endorsements of what others have purported and that it is Ellen White's interpretation of Scripture that is the root of their doctrine number twenty-four of the twenty-eight Fundamentals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I have to say that reading these discussions - I have found a first. Never before have I come across a nonSDA who loved to speak for the church as much as I have seen on this forum. Usually it's the extreme ultra cons within the church that love to play that game. I must say that I am disappointed. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug yowell Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 And it's so frustrating to me that when I insult your false prophet, you all come out of the woodwork, Sorry, we thought that that's what you wanted us to do. Try insulting her again and we'll figure out another response more fulfilling for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Originally Posted By: BibleOnly And it's so frustrating to me that when I insult your false prophet, you all come out of the woodwork, Sorry, we thought that that's what you wanted us to do. Try insulting her again and we'll figure out another response more fulfilling for you. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleOnly Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 Quote: It's the SDA that limits this gift to one person in the last 2000 years. And it's so frustrating to me that when I insult your false prophet, you all come out of the woodwork, but no-one can show where any Bible verse says any of the things you claim about 1844. I took the time to post specific rebuttals from the SDA site and no-one has answered. How many times does one have to explain that we have access to all the gifts including the gift of prophecy. It still does not mean that we all will have that gift anymore than not all of us have the gift of tongues. Some do some don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Quote: None of you have the gift of tongues, or if they do, they are keeping quiet about it, in here. Many examples of SDAs having the gift of tongues have been given - yet this straw man continues to pop his head up. I have to wonder why. I consider it rather BOLD to proclaim that no SDAs have the gift of tongues. Rather BOLD. Again - I will point you to Jesus rather than being the judge and accuser of the brethren. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleOnly Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 Because stories from far away of a gift that is not mentioned in the Bible are not compatible with the gift the Bible describes. My point was entirely, if any SDA does have the BIBLE gift of speaking in a language only God understands ( and I suspect they probably do, somewhere ), then they are at odds with the beliefs of the church they attend. Your point seems to be that when in a room full of unsaved people who have a sincere desire to follow God, but have been misled on how to do that, one should stay quiet and just accept them as they are, which is, unacceptable to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Because stories from far away of a gift that is not mentioned in the Bible are not compatible with the gift the Bible describes. My point was entirely, if any SDA does have the BIBLE gift of speaking in a language only God understands ( and I suspect they probably do, somewhere ), then they are at odds with the beliefs of the church they attend. Your point seems to be that when in a room full of unsaved people who have a sincere desire to follow God, but have been misled on how to do that, one should stay quiet and just accept them as they are, which is, unacceptable to God. I pray you don't feel that you have the power to draw people to your theology. Christ said HE would draw ALL men unto Himself. I think you are trying to play the role of God perhaps. And again you try to speak incorrectly about the church. You seem to feel you know the church better than those of us IN the church. The SDA church is NOT opposed to the gift of tongues. ALL have access to the gifts. But it is GOD who decides which people will have which gifts. The gift of tongues (being the least important gift) is NOT exempt in the church. Praise God though - many of us have the more important of the gifts. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleOnly Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 Woody, you are right, the Bible says His sheep hear His voice. But it also says He's chosen the 'foolishness of preaching' to spread His message. "And again you try to speak incorrectly about the church. You seem to feel you know the church better than those of us IN the church." Well, I'm not sure what you mean. No-one here has ever suggested that tongues is what the Bible says it is, everyone thinks it's human languages. Therefore, no-one here has the gift of tongues, but, I said that I'm sure some people somewhere may well do. What did I say that was incorrect ? "The SDA church is NOT opposed to the gift of tongues. ALL have access to the gifts. But it is GOD who decides which people will have which gifts. The gift of tongues (being the least important gift) is NOT exempt in the church. Praise God though - many of us have the more important of the gifts." So the SDA accepts that tongues is speaking in a language that only God understands, and that it's how we pray in the Spirit and is the manifestation of the Spirit ? Does the SDA think that if we don't all have access to all the gifts, that some Christians have no faith, or no wisdom, or no discernment ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Quote: Does the SDA think that if we don't all have access to all the gifts, that some Christians have no faith, or no wisdom, or no discernment ? Again - let me repeat myself - I keep telling you so clearly - that the SDA church believes that we all have access to each of the gifts. Access yes. But it is GOD who decides which gifts will be given to which individuals. You have placed this ONE gift SO HIGH above all the others that you simply can't be blessed due to your refusal. Your continued focus on people and things - just get you further and further away from Jesus. You lack discernment due to your constant focus on one particular gift which is listed as the least. I pray your focus gets much higher. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleOnly Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 Again - let me repeat myself - I keep telling you so clearly - that the SDA church believes that we all have access to each of the gifts. Access yes. But it is GOD who decides which gifts will be given to which individuals. You have placed this ONE gift SO HIGH above all the others that you simply can't be blessed due to your refusal. Your continued focus on people and things - just get you further and further away from Jesus. You lack discernment due to your constant focus on one particular gift which is listed as the least. I pray your focus gets much higher. OK, so let me recap. Everyone who has told me that tongues is the gift of speaking human languages, was not reflecting the SDA position. The SDA believes in the Bible gift of tongues, a language that only God understands. You think some people have this gift and some do not. I can't really address your other comments without sounding sarcastic. I've shown already that Paul said there's many gifts but one common manifestation of the Spirit. I've posted a ton of scripture on this topic, and you can't see it. So, let's focus on if I've got you right on this one thing. Despite all the people who have told me I am demon possessed, the actual SDA church believes that some Christians have the ability to speak in a language only God understands. Correct ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 BO - You have complained that many just don't respond to you anymore. I would propose that the reason is - they don't see you as Spirit possessed. I personally would not call you devil possessed. But I don't see that discussions with you as being fruitful because you don't appear honest in the discussions. I suppose that in your mind - if we witnessed you babbling in some unknown language - that we would instantly believe you. I personally would not. We as SDAs judge things by scripture - not by some babbling which could either come from God or from Satan. By their fruits ye shall know them. And the fruit that I'm seeing here is not ripe. You do remain in my prayers. Like Overaged stated - I am also very glad to have you on this forum. I think that all who look can witness to the Truth through consistant dependance on scripture. The Bible is our guide - not some babbling that some particular saved person might do. I fear that many of God's saved - are actively working unawares for the enemy rather than for the Truth. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleOnly Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 BO - You have complained that many just don't respond to you anymore. I would propose that the reason is - they don't see you as Spirit possessed. I personally would not call you devil possessed. But I don't see that discussions with you as being fruitful because you don't appear honest in the discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Going round and round on these issues is not fruit. It is "fruitless". BO - People stop discussing with you because it is "fruitless". You continue to misrepresent. You close your ears and judge each of us as UNChristian. How in the world do you think we will buy your theology when it is not consistant with scripture and in fact your approach clearly tells us that it is not of God. You enjoy debates. That is fine. But that is all that is here. It is the only fruit present. But the fruit is not ripe. I pray you will develop in your personal walk with him. But, you will need victory over your constant condemnation of your brothers and sisters. And I DO consider you my brother in Christ. I wish you well. While I consider your approach UNchristian - I do consider you my fellow Christian brother - Saved by the Blood of Jesus. May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BibleOnly Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 Going round and round on these issues is not fruit.It is "fruitless". BO - People stop discussing with you because it is "fruitless". You continue to misrepresent. You close your ears and judge each of us as UNChristian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted January 5, 2012 Moderators Share Posted January 5, 2012 And it's so frustrating to me that when I insult your false prophet, you all come out of the woodwork, but no-one can show where any Bible verse says any of the things you claim about 1844. I took the time to post specific rebuttals from the SDA site and no-one has answered. This thread about 1844 has gone on for how many pages? And you claim no one has answered your questions? INCREDIBLE!!! The fact is, my friend, you don't like the answers because they do not agree with your position. You reject the judgment scene that is taking place in heaven as seen in Dan 7 because you don't see it. Nevertheless, it is a great cosmic event because you are directly affected by it. Rev 14 says that judgment IS come. It is going on now. And you and I don't know when our probation is sealed forever. That's why we need to watch & pray, and make or "calling & election sure." As Paul says, "Let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall." Re: tongues. I have carried on a long discussion with you about this, so you cannot say no one has bothered to answer your questions. If others are no longer paying attention, it's because no one here believes that the tongues mentioned in 1 Cor 12-14 are any different from the tongues mentioned in Acts 2. We know without a doubt that the tongues in Ac 2 are understandable human languages. And there is not one shred of evidence that speaking in tongues is THE sign of a saved person any more than handling snakes or drinking poison without harm, or even possessing the gift of prophecy or miracles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 5, 2012 Administrators Share Posted January 5, 2012 I agree that is topic has gone on quite long enough. So with this 499th post in this topic it is finished. "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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