Dr. Shane Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 The taxes my husband and I have paid and continue to pay,provide for my use of the highways. Nope. You and your husband probably haven't paid enough taxes to even build one bridge. If we want a pure capitalistic system, the roads need to be built by private companies and they charge a toll for their use. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Check to see what the role of federal government was intended to be. The Constitution only authorizes Congress to build postal roads. That means, roads to deliver mail. The Constitution does not authorize Congress to build interstates, railroads, airports, water treatment facilities, etc. Those things were all to be done by state and local governments or private industry. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Originally Posted By: bonnie I pay for my portion of use. No way possible! It's about $120,000 per mile. I think just one concrete overpass costs between $4 million and $12 million and those don't even span over water. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Infrastructure is not welfare and is not redistribution of wealth. It is certainly a redistribution of wealth since taxes taken from rich city folks are used to build roads and bridges in the countryside. Not only that, rich folks pay taxes for roads that poor folks get to drive on. That almost sounds like welfare. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Originally Posted By: bonnie Infrastructure is not welfare and is not redistribution of wealth. It is certainly a redistribution of wealth since taxes taken from rich city folks are used to build roads and bridges in the countryside. Not only that, rich folks pay taxes for roads that poor folks get to drive on. That almost sounds like welfare. Yup,stretch and twist.You and Robert have an interesting discussion now to figure out ways you could help boost and encourage more socialism. Obama will do well for you in 2012. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Yup,stretch and twist.You and Robert have an interesting discussion now to figure out ways you could help boost and encourage more socialism.Obama will do well for you in 2012. It's hard to believe that they now openly walk among us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 You guys are nuts.....You live in a delusional world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Originally Posted By: bonnie Yup,stretch and twist.You and Robert have an interesting discussion now to figure out ways you could help boost and encourage more socialism.Obama will do well for you in 2012. It's hard to believe that they now openly walk among us. What I find really interesting is how far we have to stretch the word socialism so that more and more seem palatable and actually a christian demand. Private insurance companies are socialism now.Purchasing from a specific company to cover my medical needs in the private sector is my choice. Medicare under the kindness of the heart of the government leaves me no choice.Right down to a narrow yearly window where I can exercise my "free choice" to change private companies for my supplemental.My so called "free choice" has just cost me a needless 750.00.I changed my Prescription D Plan within the allotted time,only to find out I am still under the plan that will cost me 750.00 in payment upfront before it kicks in. Due to the complex laws surrounding everything the government does I assumed I was the one that made the error. Not so,Humana under the government rules is not responsible for their own error and under no circumstances can I switch,even tho the new plan is part of the same company. If I were on welfare,no problem,my care and my drugs would be assured.If I refuse and claim I cannot afford supplemental I can still find a DR that accepts Medicare assignment only and makes up for the rest from others that actually pay.If I refuse to purchase Prescription D I can find those companies willing to defray my drug costs by a considerable amount,starting with the drug companies. Making the decision to provide what I could eliminates me from any option except paying the additional 750.00.By having that insurance I have proved I can pay it on my own. That is government fairness and equality. They have to have such control under the guise of fairness they can tell private insurance the time window anyone on medicare can switch or purchase Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Private insurance companies are socialism now. Of course they are. They are not "government socialism." They are a voluntary form of socialism. When you go and pick up a medication that costs $100 and you only pay a $10 co-pay, who do you think is paying the other $90? It is some young, healthy person that has no need for medical services but is paying into the medical insurance industry. It is all on a voluntary basis but someone else is still picking up the tab for your medical bills. And when you are healthy and in no need of services, you pick up the bill for other's medical bills. That is what socialism is all about. If we want a purely capitalistic system we need to do away with health insurance. When you go to the doctor's office you pay the $85 consultation fee. If he prescribes a $100 medication that is how much you pay the pharmacy. If you need a $50,000 operation you go to the bank and get financing or you don't get the operation. That is pure capitalism. That kind of makes a bit of socialism start sounding pretty good. Doesn't it? Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Of course they are. They are not "government socialism." They are a voluntary form of socialism. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 If you hang tight a little longer there is a better than even chance Obama will be the president you hoped he would be.For the four years of another presidency he will not have to worry about votes being lost and will "push" his "little" bit of socialism your way. While you claim you voted for Obama because of the alternative,I don't believe that is the real reason Obama explained in quite clear terms what he was aiming to do.Much of your disappointment in Obama has been for "programs" he failed to complete. We will face more and more government intrusion and control and we know where that will lead.Whether Obama is the one to set this in motion,I have no idea,but we do know it will come. We can't avoid it,nor if possible should human hands try to kick it down the road. Neither do I believe should we promote and support this process. At any rate Obama will give us a pretty clear glimpse of what is ahead and he will do so with a lot of help and support from "christians" of all denominations that only want to be a little bit pregnant. That is your choice and your right to make it.You of course will take the right to help make the choice to take that of others. Can't do anything about it. Nor is this going to go on for any length of time as you try to find any comparison,no matter how far reaching to justify your position.You and Robert can see how far you can stretch it Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Key word is voluntary,not government regulations Voluntary or not, socialism is socialism and the entire concept of insurance is socialistic. It is all about redistributing risk. We all pay a little so no single person pays a lot. That is socialism. Those that voluntarily pay insurance premiums testify by their very actions that they are not completely opposed to socialism. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Those that voluntarily pay insurance premiums testify by their very actions that they are not completely opposed to socialism. But we are not the ones trying to grow the government bigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 If you hang tight a little longer there is a better than even chance Obama will be the president you hoped he would be. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 No. Obama is a failure. He couldn't even get people that agree with him to agree with him. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Originally Posted By: bonnie Key word is voluntary,not government regulations Voluntary or not, socialism is socialism and the entire concept of insurance is socialistic. It is all about redistributing risk. We all pay a little so no single person pays a lot. That is socialism. Those that voluntarily pay insurance premiums testify by their very actions that they are not completely opposed to socialism. So says Shane. Government socialism is all about distributing other peoples money as government has none of it's own.Nothing voluntary about it or fair for that matter In your desire to make your push for more and more socialism you will keep digging to find anything that you can remotely compare and say SEE. It really does work for some,ask Obama Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Personally I believe you will have a hard time voting for anyone that wants to disturb the socialist trend. I voted for George H.W. Bush once and George W. Bush twice. When the GOP puts up good candidates, I vote for them. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Government socialism is all about distributing other peoples money as government has none of it's own.Nothing voluntary about it or fair for that matter In a democracy the government rules with the consent of the governed. If the government does something we don't like, we vote them out and change it. Our citizens are free to move about. If they dislike some change too much, they are free to move to another country where they can do better for themselves. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Originally Posted By: bonnie Personally I believe you will have a hard time voting for anyone that wants to disturb the socialist trend. I voted for George H.W. Bush once and George W. Bush twice. When the GOP puts up good candidates, I vote for them. Had they actually been conservative what then.There would have went your "little bit" of socialism Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 In a democracy the government rules with the consent of the governed. If the government does something we don't like, we vote them out and change it. Our citizens are free to move about. If they dislike some change too much, they are free to move to another country where they can do better for themselves. So if you don't like something don't voice that opinion and move? When so many become conditioned to desire socialism it is never enough.Then of course the vote swings with the favor of those that just can't get enough government. That is what happens. You really shouldn't have a problem with Obama,he will get you there is you are just patient enough. It is hard to switch the US over to socialism,it takes awhile.The ground work is being laid very effectively by a president that does like socialism,For crying out loud,give the man a chance Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Government socialism is all about distributing other peoples money as government has none of it's own..... Do you understand how corrupt Rome was in Christ's day? Even so, Christ stated "Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s". Christ is speaking of taxes - redistribution of the wealth. Without it you wouldn't have a lot of things. Here are a few: Defense, Education, Health Care, Transportation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 16, 2012 Members Share Posted January 16, 2012 Originally Posted By: bonnie Government socialism is all about distributing other peoples money as government has none of it's own..... Do you understand how corrupt Rome was in Christ's day? Even so, Christ stated "Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s". Christ is speaking of taxes - redistribution of the wealth. Without it you wouldn't have a lot of things. Here are a few: Defense, Education, Health Care, Transportation Robert I usually don't agree with much you say, but this is one time that I do. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 There is such a thing as a healthy dose of socialism for a nation. Of course, too much of a good thing can kill anyone. The US has a pretty good balance now. I find little to criticize about the fundamentals of our current Constitutional form of government. I do think that a single-payer system for health-care would be much more efficient that the hodge=podge of various insurance companies we have today. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Quote: Robert I usually don't agree with much you say, but this is one time that I do. Defense is the responsibility of the government,paid for by the citizens that realize it is necessary.A role of government is keeping one citizen from harming another,not settling disputes Again,implication seems to have to play a part,maybe you to think something is being said that we should not pay taxes. No one has ever said that.Regardless of how unfair"Render to Ceaser is"we are to obey unless it conflicts with God's law(forcing Sunday observance) We have a system of government here that allows and should encourage citizens to speak out against what they believe to be wrong.Does your agreement in anyway indicate we are to "Render to Ceaser" without reservation or speaking out? Health care that others pay for have been forced on many of us.My health care was not non-existent prior to that.Many of us have been forced to pay for others as well. Government did not invent transportation,education or medical care.Are you of the opinion that without government we would still be riding horses,the US would be a uneducated country,or that maybe we would wait for weeks and months for mail to travel now what takes two days by snail mail.That we did not have medical care or education of medical personal? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Even so, Christ stated "Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s". Christ is speaking of taxes - redistribution of the wealth. WOW! That's quite a stretch to make Jesus say that he was for redistribution of wealth. LOL He said no such thing. For one thing Ceaser did NOT re-distribute wealth. Period. You paid taxes to Ceasar, and Ceasar became rich. End of Story, for the most part. Jesus still said to pay it, even though He knew it was an unfair tax. Because the gubment has rule over you. He didn't say anything about paying MORE taxes, and He didn't say anything about it being redistributed! So quit putting words in Jesus' mouth, that He never EVER said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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