Moderators lazarus Posted January 11, 2012 Moderators Share Posted January 11, 2012 Two Adventist preachers talk frankly about Adventists "> " type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted January 11, 2012 Moderators Share Posted January 11, 2012 I did not listen to the whole presentation, but I do agree that we have been too insular. And when it comes to civil rights, yes, we are conspicuously absent & silent, until our own toes are stepped on. Then we squawk! In our zeal to be true to the gospel and not be involved in politics, we have forgotten the rest of of Isa 58: ESV | ‎Is 58:6 “Is not this the fast that I choose: to loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the straps of the yoke, to let the oppressed go free, and to break every yoke? ‎7 Is it not to share your bread with the hungry and bring the homeless poor into your house; when you see the naked, to cover him, and not to hide yourself from your own flesh? ‎8 Then shall your light break forth like the dawn, and your healing shall spring up speedily; your righteousness shall go before you; the glory of the LORD shall be your rear guard. ‎9 Then you shall call, and the LORD will answer; you shall cry, and he will say, ‘Here I am.’ If you take away the yoke from your midst, the pointing of the finger, and speaking wickedness, ‎10 if you pour yourself out for the hungry and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then shall your light rise in the darkness and your gloom be as the noonday. And: ESV | ‎Lk 4:18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, We seem to remember only v.13 of Isa 58. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted January 11, 2012 Administrators Share Posted January 11, 2012 I enjoyed it, too. Gerry, you mentioned Luke 4:18- this has become my mission statement, to do what our Master did when on earth. We have a young pastor's son working for us now, recently hired. He's trained at places like the Oregon College for Bible workers (I forget its proper name) and is friends with many Amazing Facts preachers, goes to GYCs, etc. Do you know what he does to get him into the community?? He goes SWING DANCING!! Now there is not a lot racy in swing dancing. It's a bit of a workout, but the kind of people that attend are basic decent yet secular-minded folk. He says that he has met some wonderful people there to witness to. I thought that was a creative idea, one way to get himself OUT THERE. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abelisle Posted January 11, 2012 Members Share Posted January 11, 2012 Thank you so much! What a breath of fresh air. Our provincialism as the remnant church, being a peculiar people and our eschatological focus have thoroughly marginalised us in our secular society. I assume this was partly in response to the rejection of the invitation to T.D.Jakes? Now I see that our indigenous black American membership is also realizing how we are failing with them and the indigenous white population in this country. With our current leadership, this situation will only get worse as we isolate ourselves internally (read only EGW books) and externally (keep to ourselves). This message has to get out to all. Alex Quote We are our worst enemy - sad but true. http://abelisle.blogspot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 11, 2012 Administrators Share Posted January 11, 2012 Very timely stuff! It time we get out of our cocoon and "divest ourselves of arrogance" that creeps into our sense of being a chosen and peculiar people. I did watch the whole thing. If you didn't, you missed Elder Bradford's impromptu remarks at the end. I have fond memories of working with him while he was the President of NAD. Great and wonderful man. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 WOW! MORE! We need more of these type of preachers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 64 views...0nly six comments! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 64 views...0nly six comments! I can't sit through 47 minutes of much of anything When I finish watching it I will comment - sounds kinda good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 12, 2012 Members Share Posted January 12, 2012 Thanks Lazarus for that. I love those two guys. I've never met Brother White, but have heard him a number of times. I did meet Brother Phipps a number of years ago at a ball game. I believe it was at Yankee Stadium. But it could've been at Fenway Park, but don't recall. Not only can he sing, but man what a preacher. If I'm not mistaken he pastor's a church here in Florida, I think in Palm Coast area. Excellent Questions and Answers. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted January 12, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted January 12, 2012 I've never met Brother White, , you mean Black! Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted January 12, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted January 12, 2012 Very timely stuff! It time we get out of our cocoon and "divest ourselves of arrogance" that creeps into our sense of being a chosen and peculiar people. It's good to see that some of our experienced and prominent men in the work can see the backward steps that some in leadership are taking. I'm surprised that I haven't seen much posting from our conservative brethren. Cat got your tongue? Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It's good to see that some of our experienced and prominent men in the work can see the backward steps that some in leadership are taking. I'm surprised that I haven't seen much posting from our conservative brethren. Cat got your tongue? Well; here comes your first detractor. I am very far from being a "conservative;" and I enjoy these two men as preachers for the most part; but I was left sour after watching this video, and listening to their message. "Experienced" and "prominent" does not always mean balanced and accurate. They made some good points; but then they undid those good points by giving a false picture of the Bible teaching on the "remnant" church. Not sure I should say anymore. I'll probably get enough flak with just this post. Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Thank you so much! What a breath of fresh air. Our provincialism as the remnant church, being a peculiar people and our eschatological focus have thoroughly marginalised us in our secular society. I assume this was partly in response to the rejection of the invitation to T.D.Jakes? Now I see that our indigenous black American membership is also realizing how we are failing with them and the indigenous white population in this country. With our current leadership, this situation will only get worse as we isolate ourselves internally (read only EGW books) and externally (keep to ourselves). This message has to get out to all. Alex I think this "provincialism" idea is over-worked, and used mostly to tear down instead of build bridges. Most Christians of most denominations do marginalize themselves from "secular" society; it's almost like when an Adventist does it, they are wrong; but when another denomination does it, they are "suffering for Christ." I think this whole subject has gotten very badly twisted around to something it's not. Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Very timely stuff! It time we get out of our cocoon and "divest ourselves of arrogance" that creeps into our sense of being a chosen and peculiar people. The same "cocoon" exists in every other major denomination in one form or another. (just sayin). Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted January 13, 2012 Administrators Share Posted January 13, 2012 I wonder if the feedback is different from those who are actually in touch with secular-minded folk than from those who do not mingle at all with those outside the denomination. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I would imagine that that does happen Gail. I know I have had some responsibilities and roles in the church that just kept me too busy to even take time to mingle with secular folks, but then I have also done things right out in the front lines. People in leadership roles should experience both "in church" and "out of church" oriented ministry. That would be a good step to take. Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted January 13, 2012 Moderators Share Posted January 13, 2012 There's a lot of confusion in this discussion when 'secular folk' is taken to mean 'all who are not SDA'. There are at least three quite different groups with whom we interact: 1. Our fellow Christians 2. People of other religions 3. People of no religion Of the third group, some are indifferent to religion while others are hostile to it. Some nuance in our responses to all these different groups would help. And *listening* to people rather than presuming their reasons for belonging to a particular group is indispensable. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Bravus; I was thinking the exact same things - especially the term "secular" and what people generally tend to do with it...kind of like the habit of calling people who don't go to church "back-sliders." Terms and words and names have meanings, and I fear some of the terms we use re "remnant" especially in opposition to; are really misused. Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I too am curious about the word secular. I wonder if it is just people that are not christian or is it more the agnostic/athiest types. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatisthis Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I personally haven't heard that word used to describe people so much among anyone but Adventists. Did we make that word up? Of course I know what secular music is, it's music that doesn't directly mention Christ in it's theme. But what are secular people? We're all made with the theme of His praise built in, the song just gets choked out sometime by the cares of life. This is just me thinkn. Quote more later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I was brought up in the Church and secular meant, not christian!!! It was also a 'place' to be avoided for fear of losing your 'salvation'. It was a word meant to instill fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 13, 2012 Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 Originally Posted By: pkrause I've never met Brother White, , you mean Black! LOL, yes your right. I happen to also know a brother White, so got them confused. And as a matter of fact I believe his first name is also Barry. :) Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted January 13, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted January 13, 2012 LOL, yes your right. I happen to also know a brother White, so got them confused. And as a matter of fact I believe his first name is also Barry. LOL, Barry White? the singer? he's black too! Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I was brought up in the Church and secular meant, not christian!!! It was also a 'place' to be avoided for fear of losing your 'salvation'. It was a word meant to instill fear. Yeah thata what I was taught it meant as well - exactly all that! But I wonder now, now that I have seen more, experienced more. More people, more religions, more life. Because there are people that are deeply spiritual in all religions, and then there are those that are not. I think it would fit more actually to those that give lip service to their religion. Whatever it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 13, 2012 Members Share Posted January 13, 2012 I too am curious about the word secular. I wonder if it is just people that are not christian or is it more the agnostic/athiest types. I personally think that it can be a non Christian as well as a Christian. And also don't believe that its meant in a derogatory way at all. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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