Bob Sands Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 Quote some other sources than your own words and then we can talk. I think the sources I give speak for themselves, yours do not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted May 10, 2005 Moderators Share Posted May 10, 2005 Quote: http://eword.gospelcom.net/comments/mark/wesley/mark2.htm Quote: Verse 27. The Sabbath was made for man - And therefore must give way to man's necessity. [:"blue"]By repeatedly refering to a man's commentary, you are falling into the same trap that the Scribes & Pharisees were in during the time of Jesus, i.e. putting more credence to the rabbinic writings that burried the truth in man-made traditions. See Mark 7. I will look at several commentaries when I get home tonight, but let me tell you that I would rather take the word of God just as it reads, than take the convoluted reasoning of man to nullify what God clearly commands. [/] Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sands Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 http://www.atoday.com/magazine/archive/1996/julaug1996/articles/SabbathGrace.shtml Quote: It is important to recognize that the Sinaitic covenant existed between God and Israel alone. No other nation or people was involved. "The sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the sons of Israel forever" (Exod 31:16, 17). The Sinaitic covenant partners were God and the Israelites only. Others could join the covenant community, but only if the males were circumcised and all kept the Sabbath (see figure 1). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sands Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 Quote: Heb 10: 9Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second. Ron, your refusal to see the 1st Covenant included the 10 Commandments is your problem that keep a veil over your eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sands Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 Gerry, I'm only turning to other sources because you believe along with Ron that your logic clarifies the basic words of the Bible. Really you guys are really clouded by the SDA position. If you study the Covenants you find that the Decalogue is part of the 1st Covenant that is now obsolete. Quote: Hebrews 8:13 13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear. Quote: Deut 4:12 Then the LORD spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice. 13 He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets. Quote: Deut 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our fathers that the LORD made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today. 4 The LORD spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain. 5 (At that time I stood between the LORD and you to declare to you the word of the LORD, because you were afraid of the fire and did not go up the mountain.) And he said: 6 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. See also what your commentaries say about these texts and them being specific to the nation of Israel, Ron and Gerry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted May 10, 2005 Moderators Share Posted May 10, 2005 Quote: Gerry, I'm only turning to other sources because you believe along with Ron that your logic clarifies the basic words of the Bible. Really you guys are really clouded by the SDA position. If you study the Covenants you find that the Decalogue is part of the 1st Covenant that is now obsolete. Quote: Hebrews 8:13 13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear. Quote: Deut 4:12 Then the LORD spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice. 13 He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets. Quote: Deut 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our fathers that the LORD made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today. 4 The LORD spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain. 5 (At that time I stood between the LORD and you to declare to you the word of the LORD, because you were afraid of the fire and did not go up the mountain.) And he said: 6 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. See also what your commentaries say about these texts and them being specific to the nation of Israel, Ron and Gerry. [:"blue"]The Old Covenant is gone. True! Did the terms change in the New Covenant? Not one iota!!! The same 10c that resided in the earthly sanctuary, is enshrined in the heavenly sanctuary of the New Covenant! The same 10c principles that the Holy Spirit enshrined in the heart of the the OT believers, are the same principles God promised to have the Holy Spirit write in the heart of the NT New Covenant believers. Read what Heb 8 & 10 say. It's not 7/10 or 9/10 of the Law!!! [:"red"]"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD IS ONE!!!" Dt 6:4 [/] [/] Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clio Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 [:"blue"]The same 10c principles that the Holy Spirit enshrined in the heart of the the OT believers, are the same principles God promised to have the Holy Spirit write in the heart of the NT New Covenant believers.[/] Erhm... I have pretty much stayed out of the argument until now... But I finally have something to say.... I'm only going to share one text, 2 Corinthians 2:13 from the NKJV. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the *Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual . I am going to share with you what Jesus and the Holy Spirit have done, not in me, but in my husband. Please be patient and read the whole thing. It really does have direct bearing on the statement I have quoted above. My husband was raised an Easter/Christmas/Mother's Day Southern Baptist. He was told he was going to hell forever at the age of 9... and from that moment on, God ceased to exist for him... much less the Abba Father I have come to know. Hard drinking, hard partying, full of rage, coarse, harsh, needy. That was the man I married. (Never mind why... talk about a story in itself!!!) 5 years ago, before he got sick, I began praying for him. What drove me to it was to save our marriage, but I realized that couldn't happen unless my husband received salvation and had a *for real in every way relationship with Abba Father*. Except I didn't really have one then either, not like now... but at least I knew my lack. I started praying for him in January of 2000. For 3 years, I was forbidden by Abba to say ANYTHING to him at all about spiritual things. So much forbidden that when I insisted on it, cuz it was Biblical, Abba Father graciously took pity on my inability to be silent, and stopped up my husband's ears when I spoke of spiritual things. I was more than a little slow, 3 years.... *sigh* It was so obvious, that when we were with others, and the topic of conversation turned to spiritual things, and I replied in answer to any question he posed as part of the conversation, that all conversation would cease. It would cease because my husband was still waiting for an answer. He hadn't heard me. This happened repeatedly... and I finally got the message. Abba Father was going to teach my husband with His Spirit, and selected individuals. And it wasn't up to me to say anything. My husband in 2004, began to read the Bible. In Psalms. By began to read, I mean once a month for 5 minutes. In 2005, after Abba gave him back to me as miraculous proof of what He is doing in my life, my husband began to implement in a meaningful way, in his life, with no prompting from me, the following spiritual principles: 1. Bearing another's burden on the Sabbath, reserving it for rest, relaxation, family time, marriage time, and spiritual growth. Not necessarily "church". 2. True cherishing, protecting of, and intimacy with his wife according to Ephesians, Corinthians, Colossians, and Titus. Which I know he has never read. 3. He instituted and leads family prayers nightly. 4. He has begun to pray for me, not as my earthly husband alone, but as my spiritual head answerable to Jesus, with his hands upon me. 5. He lays fleeces before Abba Father, and waits expectantly to have them filled. 6. He has verbalized the idea of a Kindly Father, and how much that means to him. 7. His rage is gone. 8. He is no longer judgemental, paranoid, or harsh. There's more. However, the point I am trying to make, is that my husband learned these things not from a Bible, not from an Evangelistic Crusade, not from Bible commentaries or even from me. I am not allowed by Abba Father to teach him. He learned them directly from the Holy Spirit which I gave permission being my husband's wife and having the spirtual authority to ask in his name, being one flesh and one bone. We are under the New Covenant. We live now, not pre-Jesus. Why would the Spirit teach my husband to honor and reverence the Sabbath in the totality of it, if it wasn't for now as well? Clio Quote A heart where He alone has first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted May 10, 2005 Moderators Share Posted May 10, 2005 Clio, thank you so much for that testimony. No complicated theology here, just something straight from the heart & life. Thanks again! Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sands Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 Clio, I am glad that your family situation is so much more improved. However, the new Covenant gives us Today, not having to wait seven days, to be close with him intimately everyday. Read about it in Hebrews 4. Hebrews 4: 6It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience. 7Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts." 8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience Gerry, let me ask you this, were the ordinances and laws on the outside of the Heavenly Ark also? There to be obeyed for all eternity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clio Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Bob... after reading all I have posted... do you really believe we wait 7 days to worship Him? Or fail to worship on ANY day? I rest in Him daily, nightly, morning, noon, and night. He directs my steps in things as simple as what groceries I buy, and as miraculous as allowing my angel to push my car home. I must respectfully disagree with you, and hope Abba will show you your error. <---- getting off my soapbox now. Quote A heart where He alone has first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sands Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 Clio, I have to admit I am not totalyl in sync with your use of Abba, and your hostility in your last post, but I fear, I am not the one in need of adjustment!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sands Posted May 10, 2005 Author Share Posted May 10, 2005 Quote: Heb 8: 7For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8But God found fault with the people and said: "The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. 9It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord. 10This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 11No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. 12For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more." 13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear. You again Gerry have not read the Bible clearly, simply. There apparently was a lot wrong and and alot changed. His law is very simple, Love God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself. That is written in your heart if you accept the gospel. Clio, my quarrel is not with you, I am happy for your improved experience you are having. Don't project anything of your anger on others. Your anecdotal experience does not change what the Bible says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clio Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Bob, there is no hostility in my last post.... Just some questions I really wish you would ask yourself based on the total writings of what I have posted here. I have shared the power of Abba Father, the love of my wonderful Jesus, and the teachings of the Holy Spirit in our lives... And I am frustrated that I cannot make it clearer.... So I will agree to disagree with you, and bow back out of this discussion. I am secure in Abba Father's favor and love. My name is written in the Lamb's book of Life, and I know in my knowing place that I walk in the center of His will. Part of the center of His will, as subjectively revealed to me, and graciously subjectively confirmed by the Spirit is the Sabbath. A day of rest, renewal, regeneration, spiritual growth, marriage, family and focus on Abba, Jesus and the Spirit with no requirement or intrusion of earthly concern. Clio Quote A heart where He alone has first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sands Posted May 11, 2005 Author Share Posted May 11, 2005 Clio, that is beautiful, but there are some of my Sunday keeping friends that could claim the same emotional experience. My discussion with Ron and Gerry has to do with what the Bible says objectively and not emotionally or based on how one was raised. If we are to witness to people and expect change we better have a basis for it other than a feel good feeling since the Sabbath of the SDA church is a big change for some, my question I am exploring is, should we ask new Christians to make that change if Christ gospel accepts them with a lot less requirements. That is what the title of this thread is all about, "Does it Diminish the Gospel?" It sounds simple to believe in a God that doesn't change, but what if he did change, what if the 2nd Covenant is different and we hang on to the old because we like how it FEELS!!!!!! What about that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted May 11, 2005 Moderators Share Posted May 11, 2005 Quote: Take just about any commentary on this, except an SDA one, and you will have my answer. I am not the stubborn one, believe me. [:"blue"]Just any commentary? Here is one, Bob. RE: Mk 2:27. "The Sabbath was made for man] That he might have the seventh part of his whole time to devote to the purposes of bodily rest and spiritual exercises. And in these respects it is of infinite use to MANKIND. Where no Sabbath is observed, there disease, poverty, and profligacy, generally prevail. Had we no Sabbath, we should soon have no religion, God ordained the Sabbath not only to be a type of that rest which remains for the people of God, BUT TO BE ALSO A MEANS OF PROMOTING THE WELFARE OF MEN IN GENERAL. The ordinances of religion should be regulated according to their end, which is the honour of God, and the salvation of men. It is the property of the true religion to contain nothing in it but what is beneficial to man. Hereby God plainly shows that it is neither out of indigence or interest that he requires men to worship and obey him; but only out of goodness, and to make them happy. God prohibited work on the Sabbath day, lest servants should be oppressed by their masters, that the labouring beasts might have necessary rest, and that men might have a proper opportunity to attend upon his ordinances, and get their souls saved. To the Sabbath, under God, we owe much of what is requisite and necessary as well for the body as the soul. Adam Clarke's Commentary Vol.5 p. 295-296 (caps & bold mine for emphasis) [/] Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted May 11, 2005 Moderators Share Posted May 11, 2005 Quote: Quote: Take just about any commentary on this, except an SDA one, and you will have my answer. I am not the stubborn one, believe me. [:"blue"]Here's another one. Mk 2:27,28. "With the words, Then He said to them Mark appended two principles: (1) He quoted Jesus' words that the Sabbath was instituted (by God) for MANKIND'S BENEFIT and REFRESHMENT, not that people were made to keep burdensome regulations pertaining to it. (2) Mark concluded(so in light of vv. 23-27) with an editorial comment (cf. v.10) on the meaning of Jessus' statement for his readers. The Son of Man (cf. 8:31) is Lord (Master) even of the Sabbath; He has sovereign authority over its use, as the next incident demonstrates." The Bible Knowledge Commentary (Dallas Theol. Seminary) [/] (caps mine) Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted May 11, 2005 Moderators Share Posted May 11, 2005 Quote: Quote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted May 11, 2005 Moderators Share Posted May 11, 2005 Quote: Quote: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnierose333 Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Dear Bob, Clio has a good answer: i.e., nothing can diminish the wonderful Gospel of our glorious Saviour, whether we paraphrase or not. God Bless, bonnierose Quote book biography excerpts, RVing tips, campground & vacation center ratings @ Bonnie and Bill Homepage, Arlyne Lucille http://home.att.net/~bandb14139/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clio Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 Quote: but there are some of my Sunday keeping friends that could claim the same emotional experience Yes indeed! Isn't that wonderful? That Abba Father has devoted children in the Body of Jesus that worship on Sunday. What wonderful love and appreciation of diversity He has! Each relationship with Jesus and Abba Father and the Holy Spirit is subjective and intensely personal. You cannot judge the relationship by which day someone worships on, or the doctrine they espouse. You can only judge the relationship by the fruit in their life. Now, at the moment, the Sabbath is strictly a doctrinal issue. Meaning that those who have a true relationship with Jesus, who seek after Him with their whole heart, and die keeping Sunday are saved. Now. BUT, when man legislates punishment for worshipping on any day BUT Sunday, then it will indeed become a salvation issue. For it is the Seal that is the equal and opposite of the mark. The ultimate test. Here's the thing, those who's hearts truly follow after Abba, will be called out from the Sunday keeping churches or traditions, to worship Him according to His plan, and that includes the Sabbath. I've seen it over and over and over. People who have worshipped on Sunday morning all their lives, but with true hearts for Jesus will acknowledge that Sabbath is from sundown on Friday to sundown on Sabbath. And with joy worship on the Sabbath for the first time with me. Until they go to an SDA church, and someone finds out that they worship usually on Sunday... They are then treated to the type of dicussion this thread has carried. Their experience with Jesus is implied somehow lacking... when in reality, it is so strong that they are following the teaching of the Holy Spirit, stepping out in faith, and moving to a new and unusual church home only because they heed His call in their life. Doctrine does NOT save. Only a true relationship with Jesus walking it out day by day does. And if we live a life that is exemplary, never flinching from explaining why we do certain things, but not trying to "convince" them with apologetics...(ick... I hate the very word... it's brangling and a distraction of the enemy plain and simple)then Abba Father, True Jesus, and the Holy Spirit WILL do the rest. There is absolute proof of this in the life of my husband. NO ONE ever sat down and gave him a Bible study, went through all the Sabbath proof-[censored] that has been thrown back and forth in this thread... never. In 5 years 1 and only 1 SDA pastor has been to visit him... and that was in the hospital while he lay in ICU, and the docs expected him to die any moment. Believe me when I say the Sabbath wasn't the topic of discussion. But the HOLY SPIRIT taught him about the Sabbath. Not because of any convincing by scripture, but because he truly was seeking Jesus... and Jesus and the Spirit answered. All that has ever happened when I have harped on and on and on about something given in the Bible as doctrine, has been I succeeded in leaving a bad taste in their mouth and they wanted nothing more to do with me. Jesus, the Holy Spirit and Abba Father are ALL POWERFUL. They can do ANYTHING. They can repair cars... they can push cars, they can pay my rent for 2 months in advance. I watched one time, with a mechanic who was telling me that I needed a new engine because the block had a 1/4 inch crack and coolent was gushing out in a stream, while the Holy Spirit sealed that crack. Right before the astounded eyes of the mechanic. We watched as the crack began to seal itself, from the top down, and the coolant gushing, not trickling, gushing dribbled to a stop. The mechanic filled it back up with coolant and I drove that van for another year. They can restore dead marriages, they can restore and regenerate and renew a life destroyed by sin... it is not a difficult thing for Them to lead into more and further truth a heart already seeking after them. You can discuss the Bible objectively... but Jesus is not objective. Nor is the Holy Spirit. They are highly personal, meeting each wounded soul wherever they may be, wooing them, restoring them, and gently leading each into the truth needed in the order needed to bring maximum healing and restoral into their lives. Seventh Day Adventism doesn't save. Sabbath keeping without a relationship with Jesus that is vital and vibrant doesn't save. Jesus is subjective every single time. He is intensely interested in each individual, and their salvation. Cannot you show them a relationship they envy, and delight in the Sabbath they envy, so that the wooing of the Spirit falls on a fertile heart when He is ready for them to add the Sabbath to their walk of obedience to Jesus? Without Him, all is lost. And HE promises that no one who seeks Him with a whole heart, will ever be lost. He is sufficient to bring them through it all. My husband is living proof. He doesn't have any real theological knowledge at all. I doubt he could find the 10 commandments in the Bible. I think he MIGHT know they are in Exodus. But when Friday night rolls around, he gathers our kids, we talk about Jesus, we pray, someone might read a Bible verse, we sing to Jesus, and then everyone gets to bed early. On Sabbath, we do things as a family, he usually asks me to prepare some kind of discussion topic that is relevant to the kids and their lives, and the day is dedicated to family, spiritual growth, praising Abba Father for the miracles in our lives...and helping others. I KNOW he can't speak any of the texts of the 10 commandments. I never taught him about the Sabbath, because for most of our marriage I avoided it like the plague... because of the infighting and lack of focus on Jesus that I found so prevalent, while growing up in the SDA church. Trust Him to get them to the Sabbath when it's time. You've done your part... showed them the words... now let the Spirit work on their hearts and just continue to love them. It's not about religion. It's about relationship... all else follows from that. Everything. Jesus made it all so simple, and we, probably more than any other denomination except the Jews make it soooo hard. Rest in Him, Trust Him to bring them to the Sabbath, and rejoice in fellowshipping with them in praising Jesus, growing in the Spirit, and walking in true Freedom in Jesus. Quote: what if the 2nd Covenant is different and we hang on to the old because we like how it FEELS!!!!!! What about that? Bob... NO ONE likes the old covenant because of how it FEELS! All it does is engender guilt because there's an emptiness, a lack. And that lack is Jesus in the very center of one's heart. In First Place all the time. The First Covenant is a yoke of bondage. It wasn't meant to be, but it got turned into that... by humans. We are called to come to the Father through Jesus the Son, come in flesh. We are called to seek at-one-ment, reconciliation with the Father and to walk in obedience as a result of faith. Obedience is an intensely personal thing. Therefore, when Abba and Jesus are ready for the true believer to rise up to a new level of obedience, THEY will effect the change in the believer's life. Our job is to sow the seed. Their job (Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and Abba) is to harvest it. We may never see the fruit of our example, our weekly Sabbath delight, our daily Sabbath rest in Jesus. But when the earnestly seeking heart that is obedient to Abba Father, finally goes, I Get IT!!! and wants to talk to someone about the Sabbath, are you going to be the one they seek out? Or the one they avoid? Clio Quote A heart where He alone has first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sands Posted May 11, 2005 Author Share Posted May 11, 2005 Now, Gerry, extrapolate those comments from those commentaries and tell me which day of the week the individuals that use those commentaries worship as a Sabbath and you will find they consider their Sunday keeping the Sabbath. Especially the one you quorted from Dallas Theolgical Seminary. Those that do not believe the law was done away with in the 1st Covenant will believe that the Sunday became the Christian Sabbath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted May 11, 2005 Moderators Share Posted May 11, 2005 Quote: Now, Gerry, extrapolate those comments from those commentaries and tell me which day of the week the individuals that use those commentaries worship as a Sabbath and you will find they consider their Sunday keeping the Sabbath. Especially the one you quorted from Dallas Theolgical Seminary. Those that do not believe the law was done away with in the 1st Covenant will believe that the Sunday became the Christian Sabbath. [:"blue"] The point, Bob, is that those commentaries believe that the Sab was made for MAN & not Jews only. Whether the Sab they believe in is the 7th day Sab or Sunday is another issue all together. The Bible is crystal clear as to what is the Sabbath meant. So, for you to take Gill as your authority among the commentaries & dogmatically insist he is the right one is way off base. [/] Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clio Posted May 11, 2005 Share Posted May 11, 2005 This is going to say to Gerry in the post header... but I really mean it to all on this discussion.... Where is Jesus in all this? Does He find pleasure in this? Does it glorify Him, magnify Him, honor Him or make anyone want to get to know Him because of who we, who claim to know Him, are? *tears* Jesus, I'm sorry I participated. Quote A heart where He alone has first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sands Posted May 11, 2005 Author Share Posted May 11, 2005 Or the one's you cite are not realizing how adamant the Jews were and are about the Sabbath being their symbol. The church I go to, Presbyterian, are Sunday Sabbatarians because they are inconsistent with the Covenant Theology. If you want to hang on to the 10 Commandments either you have to keep the Sabbath like the Jews that Acts 15 says is not necessary, or believe the Sabbath/Saturday was changed by the Apostles to the 1st day like the Westminister Confession states but has no Biblical basis. http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/ Quote: VII. As it is the law of nature, that, in general, a due proportion of time be set apart for the worship of God; so, in His Word, by a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment binding all men in all ages, He has particularly appointed one day in seven, for a Sabbath, to be kept holy unto him:[34] which, from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, was the last day of the week: and, from the resurrection of Christ, was changed into the first day of the week,[35] which, in Scripture, is called the Lord's Day,[36] and is to be continued to the end of the world, as the Christian Sabbath.[37] VIII. This Sabbath is to be kept holy unto the Lord when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering of their common affairs beforehand, do not only observe an holy rest all the day from their own works, words, and thoughts about their wordly employments and recreations,[38] but also are taken up the whole time in the public and private exercises of His worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy.[39] It is silly to argue that Christ a Jew was arguing that the Sabbath was for all mankind since he did not emphasize that to the Lady at the Well. He was pointing out that the Sabbath was for Man's enjoyment, not the other way around. It is so silly to argue that that Acts 15 then becomes an absurd discussion and Heb 4 meaningless. Gerry, your lack of discernment is showing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Quote: nothing can diminish the wonderful Gospel of our glorious Saviour, [:"red"] "For we can do nothing against the truth, but only for the truth. " [/] 2 Cor 13:8 NASB Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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