Stan Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 BREAKING NEWS: Some pretty solid rumours that the action to be able to have unordained Commissioned Ministers etc, ie those who are University Presidents, successful Business leaders in our Church and so forth may NOT be able to ever lead out as a Conference President. I have not heard from a Union or Conference president, but from what I deem to be a reliable source. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted January 15, 2012 Administrators Share Posted January 15, 2012 Stan, I am going to show my ignorance, but I was not aware that we have Conference Presidents who are NOT ordained. Intersting ... shall pursue this Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted January 15, 2012 Author Share Posted January 15, 2012 There was an action taken to allow those who where not ordained to be conference Presidents. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I'm not clear on the issue here Stan. Are you saying: ONLY ordained Ministers can be a Conference President? As, I guess, has always been the case. I don't have a problem with that myself. I'm of the opinion that ONLY those who HAVE been ordained should be allowed to hold the position of President. It appears that there WAS a call for NON-ordained Ministers to be President, it was considered, but in the end it was voted down. Thus a NON-ordained Minister CANNOT be President of a Conference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Well let's hope we are a little more progressive on this issue. I am one who is of the opinion that not only ordained ministers should be considered for this position. I am of the opinion that even plumbers should be considered. Let God lead. I hope we will not restrict God's will by having a set of rules like the Jews did to run our church. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted January 15, 2012 Administrators Share Posted January 15, 2012 Now that I more fully undersstand the issue ............ it is what it is. Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Now that I more fully undersstand the issue ............it is what it is. Can you expound on what it IS ? lol From reading Stan's post - I have no idea what "it is" currently. Do you? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted January 15, 2012 Administrators Share Posted January 15, 2012 ClubV12 pretty well summed it up. Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 ClubV12 pretty well summed it up. I am not sure that is correct according to what Stan is saying. But I suppose we will have to wait till Stan can come and clarify. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I'm not sure either, but I THINK that is what Stan is saying, ONLY ordained Ministers can be President. Now let's consider this plumber Woody mentions, because we want to be open to Gods direction. Who and how will it be decided this plumber has a call from God to become President? Lighting bolt? Visions? Tongues? Miracles? At some point SOMEBODY or a group of somebody's have to decide wether or not the plumber is called of God. How would that work ya think? You know that same reasoning applies to some who have said let women be ordained if they are called of God. Fine,,, uh,,, how will that be decided? Do they just walk in and tell the G.C. they've been called and everyone gets in line with that or what? I'm a litte fuzzy on this whole "called of God" to some position independant of what anybody else has to say. David Koresh was called of God, or at least, thats what he said. If that's all it takes, your own say on the matter, I guess he to could have been G.C. President. Wait, I think I've been called to be President of the G.C., I better get packing if we have no protocol that says I can't. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Your above illustration has no logic to it or coherence. What are you trying to say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 just because someone is ordained - does not in ANY way mean they are called of God. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Your above illustration has no logic to it or coherence. What are you trying to say? I was thinkin' the same thing but chose not to say it. From previous experience I think I might gather what Club is TRYING to say. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Okay, spell it out!!!! I don't like assuming!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 16, 2012 Members Share Posted January 16, 2012 just because someone is ordained - does not in ANY way mean they are called of God. I can agree with that, we really have no idea who has and who has not been called of God. The only way for me personally, is to see there fruit, as it says in the Bible, by there fruits ye shall know them. I recall when visiting my brother some years ago when he was at AUC. I met a friend of his, he was a Theology major, I thought to myself, this guy is gonna be a pastor! I know that I wont be going to his church. Well several years later I was reading something in one of the adventist magazines and would you know there he was, and article was telling about all the good this person had done in all his years as a pastor and counselor etc. Yea we can't ever tell who's been called by God, but only by there fruits, after reading that article I knew this guy had been called of God. As far as the plumber, that's exactly what he was called to do. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 You know,,,, my post aint that complicated!!! It's real simple, let me get out the crayons and draw a picture. Just because someone is NOT ordained, doesn't mean they are called of God to serve or be ordained! Plenty of "mega church" Pastors will point to thousands of members as proof or their "fruit", in appearance, certainly Godly men. Ellen White met such people in her time, where even SHE couldn't determine without a vision who they really served! Dr. Kellogg had the entire Adventist leadership confused as to his true status. Many called for a lady Minister of Sister Whites time to be ordained. And then were rather embarrased when that lady Minister denounced the church and apostized! You say some are called of God, how do you know? Lots of folks on this forum say that. Lots of folks on this forum claim the Holy Spirit speaks to them directly and personally. They don't need you, the forum, the counsel of the brethren or anybody else to tell them anything! All they need is the bible and the Holy Spirit. Shall we ordain them as well? Who do you recommend should make these decisions (passes out the crayons so we can keep it simple)? After reading Kelloggs book, lots of folks thought he should be ordained, that didn't work out so well, considering he left the church! I'm not trying to SAY anything, I'm trying to figure out HOW in the world Woody is going to determine if the plumber should be ordained or not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Forget the "ordination" thing. We need people with common sense, honesty, and respect for tithe-payers and tax-payers to run denominations, states, and countries. Be they plumbers, carpenters, or multi-tasking mothers, so be it. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 It seems you are still not giving us all your thoughts. I will have to assume that you are saying we need some rules/regulations/protocols in order to determine if someone is 'called' by the Holy Spirit. I will also assume you are speaking of 'human' criteria, since the person saying they are called of God is 'suspect' unless they meet some criteria. If we are going by Biblical criteria, their results/fruits, I can agree with that. On the other hand, if by human decisions, we are replacing God or our interpretation of Gods word in the process. What the church wants to do with leadership is their prerogative, their rules or what ever. I have no problem with that. But, I do not believe that negates the plumber being 'called' by God...remember the disciples occupations!! It is really simple to 'know' if the plumber is being 'called'.....and we all have been 'called' by God to spread the Good News, not a select few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Quote: All they need is the bible and the Holy Spirit. And we need something else?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 you make some excellent points CoA. I will continue to vote for Joe the Plumber. For as you say - we are ALL called of God. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 How's that "bible only" and the Holy Spirit speaking to one person alone, only, no one else, working out for the fanatics, off shoots, radicals and about a 1,000 Christian churches of different denominations? How's that Mega Church Minister with 1,000's of members in his church working out? From that alone, we can determine he has the truth? How about that plumber that wrote a really good book, is that how we will know? No doubt we are called of God to work for him. Some to raise a family, some to be an honest plumber, some to be a teacher, some to lead a new church with new interpretations. No one needs to be ordained? Thats one possible way. Everyone should be ordained? WHO will decide WHICH "plumber" should be President of the G.C.? If ordination is not a requirement, what SHOULD be the minimum requirements and who will set them? Not man but God, you say. Fine, how do I know God called the plumber to be the G.C. President? Let's throw out schooling, after all, Ellen White never had any. Do we automatically assume someone is qualified because he/she has a PhD? I know several folks with PhD's that can barely tie their shoes. Shall we then base our decision on visions, divine revelation, the number of books authored? What ARE acceptable standards? The bible only and the Holy Spirit? Hows that working out for Jehovah Witness'? How did that work out for David Koresh? How's that working out for the many on THIS forum who make that claim and yet have widely different interpretation of scripture? No way thay can ALL be correct, and yet, they all CLAIM to be correct! Somebody has to make these decisions, there has to be certain rules, regulations, minimum standards, or not, I guess anything goes.... Just askin', wondering how the church is supposed to do this, what the new recommendations are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 God will raise up whom He chooses. I just pray we will allow Him to do that. Unfortunately we make so many rules that we don't allow for HIS choices. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators LynnDel Posted January 16, 2012 Moderators Share Posted January 16, 2012 It depends on what a conference president's job is. If the job description fits their calling and training as a pastor, they would make great conference presidents. But does ordination as a pastor fit a person for administration? A good pastor does not necessarily a good administrator make. Fortunately, for the most part, the necessary leadership skills are taken into consideration when calls for these positions are made--though we have, at times, seen difficulties when it comes to the financial management arena. LD Quote LD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 4 of the 12 disciples were fishermen and 1 was a tax collector. I don't really see the difference between them and a plumber other than tax collectors of that time were scum. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 "I just pray we will allow Him to do that. Unfortunately we make so many rules that we don't allow for HIS choices." Oh boy,,,, that sounds a lot like choosing someone based on a "wing and prayer". We don't have "to many" rules, the issue here is ONE rule that some folks are having a problem with, the ordination rule. I'm sure there are Ministers that were formerly plumbers, fishermen, mechanics or whatever. I don't have a problem with "Joe the Plumber". But if he wants to be President of a Conference, like the fishermen of old, he needs to quit working on toilets and get serious about working for the Lord full time. Leave the nets, leave the boats, leave the tool box behind, let the dead bury their dead and accept a new calling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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