Overaged Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 There was an action taken to allow those who where not ordained to be conference Presidents. Stan; a few years ago, when I was Director Of Client Service for a national Home Care agency; they did something that sounds familiar here. But correct me if I am wrong. What the nursing industry did at the time was change who could be "Manager" of a given local office, and when I left the profession, they didn't even require an actual nurse to be the manager; as long as they had their Business Admin degree. It was one of the reasons I left that profession; to me, you need a nurse, to manage nursing care. It was always so difficult to explain why for many nursing issues, to a person who was very number-oriented. Are you talking about the same kind of thing here; where they are saying one does not even have to be a Pastor anymore, they can still get the position, long as they have certain degrees? If so; I can't say how I feel about that until I hear more details on what they are thinking - Hey; maybe I will be Conference President if this is what you are talking about? lol Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Quote: .....he needs to quit working on toilets and get serious about working for the Lord full time. I think the above quote is shedding light on the subject as to why there is confusion about leadership. The quote implies that a person is only working for the Lord 'part time' unless they are a 'designated' worker for the Church. Is that really true? Do humans decided which person is 'serious' and who isn't, did God give humans the 'right' to determine what full time working for God is? Working for the GC and the Lord are two separate but related issues. Working for the GC simply means you work under their organization and by their rules. One can be 'working' for the Lord in any capacity including the GC, but not limited to. It has already been pointed out the criteria for establishing a persons 'calling' by the observation of their output. That is Biblical. However, we should be cautious about quickly judging others output by our own belief/interpretations/wants/etc. We should let God use whom He chooses and not be quick to judge results. Is our time, His time? Lets not forget the Donkey!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Let God choose whom He will for whatever work a person is called to. Be the best plumber or mechanic or carpenter you can be. Leadership is a different and a higher calling. Not all are called to leadership, or to be teachers, Elders, Ministers, Deacons. If your going to a President of a Conference, you need to quit fishing for a living, stop working as a plumbing contractor, put the hammer and saw down. Like Jesus did when He was finished doing carpentry work and entered into the Lords work full time. Like the New Testament fishermen and tax collectors did. Once you have "set your hand to the plow", there is no looking back. Not even to return home to bury your Father, "let the dead bury their dead", you have a new work to do. If you feel a distinct calling from the Lord to work full time for Him, terrific, do the best job you can. DON'T expect the Conference or your local church to support you. You might want to think twice before you quit your day job and apply for the position of President of the Conference. There are certain requirements, training, education and life experience you need to qualify. Being "Joe the Plumber" is great if you want to fix the church toilet, but it doesn't carry any weight if you want to be the Minister of the church. And I'm OK with that! :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Quote: If your going to a President of a Conference, you need to quit fishing for a living, stop working as a plumbing contractor, put the hammer and saw down. Like Jesus did when He was finished doing carpentry work and entered into the Lords work full time. Quote: Being "Joe the Plumber" is great if you want to fix the church toilet, but it doesn't carry any weight if you want to be the Minister of the church. And I'm OK with that! Our Founders would roll over in their graves if they here this kind of Joe the Plumber mentality. Our founders had to do the plumbing also. They had to provide for their families. What you are talking about here is a tradition that has evolved but it is not of the Lord. There is no need to put the hammer down. Keep it up and build for the Lord. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 "Our founders had to do the plumbing also. They had to provide for their families." And your point is??? That Joe the Plumber could still be President of a Conference and run a side business in plumbing? God, literally, forbids it. You cannot have a divided interest if you are called to the Ministry. One of the "rules" is that a Minister (or Conference President) cannot have a "side job". He/She is fully committed to his/her work for the church, or they are dismissed from their duty. This is a biblical concept. It is note worthy that James and Ellen White literally starved at times until enough organization and structure was in place to provide them with an income stream. Paul worked in the same way, as a "self supporting" worker. Until such time as the early church achieved sufficient organization and structure to provide for the needs of leadership and the members at large. Through a "general fund" the church established. Let "Joe" run his plumbing business and work as he see's fit for the Lord, for the church. But if he is called to the Ministry in an official capacity, he needs to stop his "side work" and heed the call. As the fishermen did, as James and Ellen White did. I don't want a Conference President with divided interests in his personal business and the Lords business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 16, 2012 Members Share Posted January 16, 2012 GP, first to be a conference president you have to have a certain amount of education. Do they not??? I think we're getting way off of what the opening post is talking about and that's, does a conference president have to be ordained or not. A plumber, printer, carpenter, etc. need also to be educated in there field of choice. I have no doubt that any of these people could become president of a conference or the world church, but as most will agree they need to have a certain amount more knowledge and education than they have. And as has already been mentioned, each one of us is basically called of God and we do that in whatever profession we are in. We are all God's messengers, so to speak. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I was called to the ministry in many different contexts Once when I thought I was going into a customers home to fix a leaky tap; I ended up praying with them and reading to them from the Bible. Turns out the Dad/ Husband of this family died the previous week. Yes I did put down the wrenches and I never made a Nickle on that call. Because. I. Was. Called AS A PLUMBER Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 16, 2012 Members Share Posted January 16, 2012 I was called to the ministry in many different contexts Once when I thought I was going into a customers home to fix a leaky tap; I ended up praying with them and reading to them from the Bible. Turns out the Dad/ Husband of this family died the previous week. Yes I did put down the wrenches and I never made a Nickle on that call. Because. I. Was. Called AS A PLUMBER We witness everyday in many different capasities(sp) Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Quote: We are all God's messengers I could not agree with you more. Right on pk Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Ha! Ha! And as a further aside; (sorry for going a little off topic) people need to understand a fundamental that often goes un-noticed. Some say; a Conference president must be "ordained" and that they would need a Phd or other degree. Well; guess what? I already have a Phd, so that means I can run for Conference president! After-all; PHD means: Plumbing, Heating & Drainage. Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 17, 2012 Members Share Posted January 17, 2012 Ha! Ha! And as a further aside; (sorry for going a little off topic) people need to understand a fundamental that often goes un-noticed. Some say; a Conference president must be "ordained" and that they would need a Phd or other degree. Well; guess what? I already have a Phd, so that means I can run for Conference president! After-all; PHD means: Plumbing, Heating & Drainage. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I stand for the right of all plumbers to become President: Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug yowell Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I stand for the right of all plumbers to become President: I was going to vote for Joe the Plumber but with OA now on the ballot I'm having serious second thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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