Woody Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Quote: As far as Presidential elections go, I have voted three times Republican, twice for a third party and once Democrat. Every political test I have taken over the years plots me just slightly right of the middle. Being in the middle and being wishy washy is not something admirable. WE need people who will stand up on principle. And if one does that - they will vote straight Republican. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Being in the middle and being wishy washy is not something admirable. Being in the middle does not mean being wishy washy. Being wishy washy means moving all across the spectrum from day to day. It means standing for something one day, than against it later and than going back to standing for it. One can stand for principle wherever they are in the political spectrum. Some have described my position as being a militant moderate. I do take strong positions and do not waiver but those positions are not at the extreme ends of the political spectrum. Moderates like me become undecided when we must choose between two extremes in the spectrum. Then it becomes an issue of choosing the lesser of two evils. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I see some doubt my sincerity and perhaps think I am involved with actual deception. It is not your sincerity that I doubt. And the only deception I think you are involved in, is on the receiving end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 It is not your sincerity that I doubt. And the only deception I think you are involved in, is on the receiving end. If it is a question of openings one mouth and saying exactly what you are politically and what you will do to destroy the country while presenting this "phony caring concern" that is about as evil as it gets Newt was as wrong as it can get,but it would not bring a country to it's knees.Obama can and will left unimpeded by worrying about votes for another four years where he can ram and cram his undemocratic ideology. Those that want the government to be "their christian conscience" are gaining in numbers and stand a very real chance of handing the country over to Obama for another four years. Obamacare will never be repealed and that reprehensible bill will impact all.Most will get minimum care,but what the heck,it will all be equal Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 22, 2012 Members Share Posted January 22, 2012 Originally Posted By: hamilton-beach no, i suspect it's spot on.....Gingrich has a reputation as an idea man, but not for getting things done..... What are you talking about? In 1995, Time named him "Man of the Year" for his role in ending 40 years of majority control by the Democratic Party. While he was House speaker, the House enacted welfare reform, passed a capital gains tax cut in 1997, and in 1998 passed the first balanced budget since 1969. I'd say that's getting something done. I agree he got things done with the help of Clinton. So my question than asks, if he did welfare reform why are they still complaining about welfare?? I thought he did such a great job of reform. Just asking Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 I agree he got things done with the help of Clinton. So my question than asks, if he did welfare reform why are they still complaining about welfare?? I thought he did such a great job of reform. Just asking The help of Clinton was because he put his finger to the wind and decided he needed to change course for re-election. The reform was taking care of in it's current mess by Obama Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted January 22, 2012 Moderators Share Posted January 22, 2012 The 'anyone but Obama' issue and comparing Gingrich to Obama is not that relevant here. We already *know* that right-wingers are deperate to get rid of Obama, that's not even a question. The question in the primaries is 'which candidate has the best chance of doing that?' And remember, while in most states it's Republicans who vote in the primaries, the general election includes all voters. So simply choosing the most red-meat and radical conservative is not necesssarily the path to the Oval Office: don't judge the whole country's voting intentions by your own or those of your like-minded friends. Shane has made the point that, for a variety of reasons, Romney is a much more electable candidate at the general election than Gingrich. While Gingrich's various faults will be ignored or repressed by Republicans, the same is not true for the nation as a whole. If your goal is to get rid of Obama at any costs, then the best strategy is to back Romney to the hilt. If your goal is to go down in screaming but righteous defeat, blaming the liberal media elite or whatever, then by all means nominate Gingrich. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Problem is Bravus - Romney is only slightly better than Obama. We want our cake and we want to eat it NOW. Can't blame one for getting greedy. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 22, 2012 Members Share Posted January 22, 2012 Originally Posted By: pkrause I agree he got things done with the help of Clinton. So my question than asks, if he did welfare reform why are they still complaining about welfare?? I thought he did such a great job of reform. Just asking The help of Clinton was because he put his finger to the wind and decided he needed to change course for re-election. The reform was taking care of in it's current mess by Obama That's not true at all, welfare has been attacked all through the 8 years of Bush. I'm not singling out Bush here I'm saying the republicans as a whole were complaining and thats pretty much after Clinton and Newt were out of office after having fixed or reformed it. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted January 22, 2012 Moderators Share Posted January 22, 2012 Problem is Bravus - Romney is only slightly better than Obama. We want our cake and we want to eat it NOW. Can't blame one for getting greedy. {shrug} How badly do you want Obama out? Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 The question in the primaries is 'which candidate has the best chance of doing that?' And remember, while in most states it's Republicans who vote in the primaries, the general election includes all voters. So simply choosing the most red-meat and radical conservative is not necesssarily the path to the Oval Office: don't judge the whole country's voting intentions by your own or those of your like-minded friends. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 My theory is that Obama will or SHOULD be easy to defeat. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 That's not true at all, welfare has been attacked all through the 8 years of Bush. I'm not singling out Bush here I'm saying the republicans as a whole were complaining and thats pretty much after Clinton and Newt were out of office after having fixed or reformed it. Bush is out of office and while he was in office he was not much of a conservative.We now have what Obama is putting into practice.Yes,many conservatives complained about a pseudo conservative,otherwise known as a moderate in office. It really is time for Obama to pull up his big boy pants and take responsibility for his time in office and his desire to expand welfare and create more takers Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 My theory is that Obama will or SHOULD be easy to defeat. Should be is the operative word. A conversation overheard by a close friend of mine in a restaurant. Man,I don't like that Obama dude,but my old lady might lose her check if he isn't re-elected,and then maybe I have to go to work and pay. Don't underestimate the numbers or the power of those in the wagon Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted January 22, 2012 Moderators Share Posted January 22, 2012 Right. So it's *wrong* for those on the left to talk about race and cast the issue partly in those terms but it's *right* for you to reduce everything to welfare and claim that all who support Obama do so for those reasons. Hmmm. How about *everyone* acknowledges that there are a wide range of people with a wide range of views, and that (almost) everyone holds the political views they hold because they've thought them through? That doesn't mean we can't find some of those views abhorrent, but over-simplifying everything leads nowhere. I've raised at least 3 different classes of reasons why I think Gingrich is a poor candidate. Can you do the same for Obama? I'm not even asking you to do the unnatural act of finding something good about him: just try to find three different issues, instead of casting everything in terms of one issue. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted January 22, 2012 Moderators Share Posted January 22, 2012 FWIW, I, like *most* on the left, am desperately disappointed in Obama because rather than closing Guantanamo he has kept it, and rather than rolling back the Bush-era civil rights abuses he has extended and expanded them. Those are things he did *not* say during the campaign, in fact they're the opposite to the things he campaigned on. On 'beware of who liberals claim is electable', I'm being completely honest and open. I think Obama is not a great leader but is far better than *any* of the Republicans. If my only goal was to keep him in office, I'd be backing Gingrich as the Republican candidate, because I genuinely believe he's a lot less electable than Romney. I'm not playing mindgames, I'm having an open and honest conversation about what I really think. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 FWIW, I, like *most* on the left, am desperately disappointed in Obama because rather than closing Guantanamo he has kept it, and rather than rolling back the Bush-era civil rights abuses he has extended and expanded them. Those are things he did *not* say during the campaign, in fact they're the opposite to the things he campaigned on. On 'beware of who liberals claim is electable', I'm being completely honest and open. I think Obama is not a great leader but is far better than *any* of the Republicans. If my only goal was to keep him in office, I'd be backing Gingrich as the Republican candidate, because I genuinely believe he's a lot less electable than Romney. I'm not playing mindgames, I'm having an open and honest conversation about what I really think. I suspect you are right Bravus. But Like I said in a previous post - I want my Cake and I want to eat it NOW. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 Right. So it's *wrong* for those on the left to talk about race and cast the issue partly in those terms but it's *right* for you to reduce everything to welfare and claim that all who support Obama do so for those reasons. Hmmm. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Originally Posted By: RLH What are you talking about? In 1995, Time named him "Man of the Year" for his role in ending 40 years of majority control by the Democratic Party. While he was House speaker, the House enacted welfare reform, passed a capital gains tax cut in 1997, and in 1998 passed the first balanced budget since 1969. I'd say that's getting something done. Don't forget,he also was largely responsible for Clinton putting his finger to the wind an saying OOPs,I remember now,I really did want to do something about welfare reforms Oh that's right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I've raised at least 3 different classes of reasons why I think Gingrich is a poor candidate. Can you do the same for Obama? I'm not even asking you to do the unnatural act of finding something good about him: just try to find three different issues, instead of casting everything in terms of one issue. What a slow hanging softball question. I think Bonnie is going to knock it out of the park when she gets back. I don't want to steal her thunder, but I will say this: -Energy Policy -Foreign Policy -Social Policies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 My theory is that Obama will or SHOULD be easy to defeat. It is easy for me to understand why someone who is overconfident would support Gingrich. However those with a more balanced view of reality should want to get Gingrich out of the race as fast as possible. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 being "balanced" does not get us where we need to be Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 it's *right* for you to reduce everything to welfare and claim that all who support Obama do so for those reasons. Hmmm. I'll tell you a not-so-secret secret. Most of the poor that are on welfare don't vote. I live in one of the two poorest counties in the US. We have a population of 750,000. We have 193,000 registered voters and come election time if over 50% of those show up to vote we consider it a good turn out. Of those 50%, many - if not most - are middle class and not welfare recipients. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted January 23, 2012 Moderators Share Posted January 23, 2012 -Energy Policy -Foreign Policy -Social Policies lol Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I agree that Obama has been a disaster on energy policy. I think he has done pretty good on foreign policy and I am not sure what social policy is being referenced. Healthcare? Three things I have disliked: 1. The way he squandered the stimulus money 2. Energy plan (or lack of) 3. Lack of investigation and accountability for the gun-running scandal "Fast and Furious" Things I have liked: 1. The auto-industry bail-out 2. Revamping the student loan program 3. Taking on the credit card industry Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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