Birth Control, Abortion & Religious Liberty

[Dr. Shane]

So many Adventists have always expressed concern that the Religious Right would be the agency that would attack religious liberty and usher in the National Sunday Law. Yet we now see the the Extreme Left is just as willing to force their morality (reproductive rights) on others as the Religious Right is feared to be. The Extreme Left believes so strongly in reproductive rights that they are willing to trample on the free exercise clause of the First Amendment and force the Catholic church to support their agenda.

In reality, the reproductive rights are not even in danger. Employees of Catholic organizations can still get birth control and sterilization, they just have to pay for it themselves. Not only that, but no one is forced to work for the Catholic church. Those insisting on having free birth control and sterilization can freely switch employers. So the whole premise that reproductive rights needs to be protected is false.

Forcing the Catholic Church to provide health insurance which will pay for birth control and sterilization would be very much like forcing Adventist hospitals to serve pork or sell cigarettes in their cafeteria. The government has no right to interfere with the free exercise of religion.

What can we learn from this? The Extreme Left is just as dangerous as the Radical Right.

[olger]

This is a very good point, Shane! Obama's agenda can be every bit as nasty as anything else - maybe a bit more so. The Pope's recent suggestion to the European Union that workers take a mandated day off to let the earth heal (and save money) should put our spiritual radars on full alert. Guess which day he has in mind?

Nice....

[phkrause]

Thursday?? :)

[olger]

Ehm... Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Good Guess!

[Overaged]

Wednesday?

[CoAspen]

Politics as usual...Hope no one is taking any of this rhetoric seriously....just more of the silly season. Not worth really commenting on.

[doug yowell]

Politics as usual...Hope no one is taking any of this rhetoric seriously....just more of the silly season. Not worth really commenting on.

Yeah right! You're just saying that cuz you don't know the answer either.

[Overaged]

?

[Dr. Shane]

Politics as usual.. Hope no one is taking any of this rhetoric seriously....

I always take violations of religious liberty seriously. What is interesting in this one is we have the beast of Revelation 13:11 taking on the beast of Revelation 13:1.

Let us remember:

First they came for the communists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me

and there was no one left to speak out for me.

[Bravus]

Religious liberty is a right of individuals, not corporations. This legislation is about the health care that employers provide to their employees. Employers, if they are responsible for their employees' health care, ought to allow the employees to exercise their own consciences, not decide for them.

This legislation *increases* freedom of religion, doesn't *decrease* it.

[Woody]

Originally Posted By: CoAspen

Politics as usual.. Hope no one is taking any of this rhetoric seriously....

I always take violations of religious liberty seriously. What is interesting in this one is we have the beast of Revelation 13:11 taking on the beast of Revelation 13:1.

Let us remember:

First they came for the communists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me

and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Excellent Post. This whole thing is about Big Brother trying to enforce his will. (in the form of Barack Obama)

[olger]

Wednesday?

Nnoooooooooooooooooooooooooo.......

nice try tho!

[olger]

Religious liberty is a right of individuals, not corporations. This legislation is about the health care that employers provide to their employees. Employers, if they are responsible for their employees' health care, ought to allow the employees to exercise their own consciences, not decide for them.

This legislation *increases* freedom of religion, doesn't *decrease* it.

I say not. It perpetuates the untruth that the Constitution give BO the authority to legislate ANYONE to provide free birth control. The Constitution does not.

[Nic Samojluk]

Shane wrote:

“So many Adventists have always expressed concern that the Religious Right would be the agency that would attack religious liberty and usher in the National Sunday Law.”

While we Adventists worry and fear the predicted “Death Decree” against Sabbath keepers and the “Time of Trouble” the enemy of souls has blinded our eyes about the real time of trouble the unborn have been subjected to since 1973.

We fear a future event while the present extermination en mass of the innocents has been taking place for several decades. What is worse, we are afraid what might happen to us one day, but are unmoved by what the devil is doing to the most vulnerable members of humanity, and we have willingly participated in said genocide for the sake of filthy lucre.

[Nic Samojluk]

Shane wrote:

“I always take violations of religious liberty seriously. What is interesting in this one is we have the beast of Revelation 13:11 taking on the beast of Revelation 13:1.”

Very interesting observation! We have been trained to believe that the second “beast” of Revelation would cooperate with the first beast of Chapter 13. Life is evidently stranger than fiction. Those powers were supposed to work in unison for the persecution of the Adventist saints.

Instead, one of them is fearlessly determined to persecute the unborn while the other is adamantly championing the right to life of those waiting to take the first breath. I wonder how come Ellen White failed to foresee this strange phenomenon!

[Nic Samojluk]

olger wrote:

“Wednesday?”

“Nnoooooooooooooooooooooooooo.......”

Perhaps we should ask our brethren living in Samoa. They know all about the correct day we are supposed to worship. They can go to sleep on Thursday evening and wake up on Saturday morning; something we have never been able to experience here in the States.

[Nic Samojluk]

olger wrote:

“I say not. It perpetuates the untruth that the Constitution give BO the authority to legislate ANYONE to provide free birth control. The Constitution does not.”

What Constitution? Does anyone have a copy?—the long form, of course! Because the original one was shredded three years ago by a man who was born in Kenya and who registered for school as a foreign born.

[Dr. Shane]

This legislation is about the health care that employers provide to their employees.

It includes religious organizations as employers and tells the Catholic church they must provide healthcare insurance that pays for what the Catholic church believes is sin. That is the civil government telling a religious organization what they must do. This is a clear violation of religious liberty. If the Catholic church believes that birth control and sterilization are sin, why should they be mandated by the civil government to provide insurance for their employees to do that which the church believes is sinful?

[Bravus]

What Constitution? Does anyone have a copy?—the long form, of course! Because the original one was shredded three years ago by a man who was born in Kenya and who registered for school as a foreign born.

And you just shredded any credibility you may have had by posting this lie.

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: Nic Samojluk

What Constitution? Does anyone have a copy?—the long form, of course! Because the original one was shredded three years ago by a man who was born in Kenya and who registered for school as a foreign born.

And you just shredded any credibility you may have had by posting this lie.

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

Wednesday?

Nnoooooooooooooooooooooooooo.......

nice try tho!

You do know that I'm being sarcastic! Right?

[olger]

You do know that I'm being sarcastic! Right?

But of course, Sir (strong British accent)...

[olger]

olger wrote:

“Wednesday?”

“Nnoooooooooooooooooooooooooo.......”

Perhaps we should ask our brethren living in Samoa. They know all about the correct day we are supposed to worship. They can go to sleep on Thursday evening and wake up on Saturday morning; something we have never been able to experience here in the States.

[olger]

olger wrote:

“I say not. It perpetuates the untruth that the Constitution give BO the authority to legislate ANYONE to provide free birth control. The Constitution does not.”

What Constitution? Does anyone have a copy?—the long form, of course! Because the original one was shredded three years ago by a man who was born in Kenya and who registered for school as a foreign born.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Nic Samojluk

olger wrote:

“Wednesday?”

“Nnoooooooooooooooooooooooooo.......”

Perhaps we should ask our brethren living in Samoa. They know all about the correct day we are supposed to worship. They can go to sleep on Thursday evening and wake up on Saturday morning; something we have never been able to experience here in the States.

What exactly is going on here?