Be Ye in the World

[David_McQueen]

but not of it. Running from culture is an article by Brian Turner in the online christian magazine ooze.com.

Tell me what you think

http://www.theooze.com/articles/article.cfm?id=1095

[Nicodema]

David,

I think now I want to see the movie the writer referred to as analogous to his point! Aside from that, I think the article is valid in some respects, though not in all. As a young SDA (converted, not raised) many years ago, I did in fact seek a refuge from the world inside the church. But it was not so much refuge from "evil culture" I sought as it was refuge in a community of faith and Godly love for one another from the true evil in the world that is caused by cliques, snobbery, phony social-climbing pecking orders, human nastiness, etc. How distressed I was indeed to discover the church was no more free of these pervasive, destructive soul-destroying things than the world it professed to be light and salt unto. In my case the opposite experience was true -- I sought a refuge that really OUGHT to be there which I did not find. Instead I found the same ugly world in the church that I thought I was leaving behind at last. The experience devastated me and became a significant contributing factor to the destruction of my faith back then.

Today it is different, but today I don't expect anything more -- and in a very real way, that's sad. I think we should be able to expect more from the fellowship of believers than that we shall be subjected to the same levels of wholesale selfishness and cruelty that reign in the "world". But as I have already pointed out, this is not a matter of culture, but of the presence or absence of the kind of Love only Christ can create in the hearts and minds of people who are willing to be so remade.

Nico

[Dr. Shane]

The SDA church is far from isolating itself from the world. The SDA church has hundreds of evangelistic campaigns each year which takes the gospel to the world. The Adventists also have community services which helps in community disasters from tornados and floods to fires and those that have lost employment. Many of our Pathfinder groups go out into the community and participate in various programs like food drives and cleaning public areas. ADRA is called upon by many civil governments around the world to relief the suffering of many. Unlike many of our fellow Protestant denominations, the Adventist church actively engages the world around them.

[David_McQueen]

Aren't we as Christians by our very nature isolationists?

Yeah of course we help out in our communities but when someone walks into our church and hears a service, do they know what we are talking about it. For example when we talk about "the world"?

[Dr. Shane]

I think the Great Commission goes against the very idea of being an isolationist.

[DaveM1936]

I was watching a pastor on 3abn give a revival sermon. I noticed the large number of times he said: "The truth." A non-SDA would have no idea what this meant. I fear that many SDA's are indeed isolationists. After a person has been in the church a few years, he/she will settle into "the truth". In general they will have no non-SDA friends. They are content to go to church and nothing more. A true Christian will want to expand our borders and bring in new members.

Your friend,

Dave M

[David_McQueen]

So do you think that there is no validity in the article?

[Dr. Shane]

Many SDAs and even other Christians are isolationists however our organized church as a whole is not. We become isolationist for the same reason we commit any other sin. We become selfish and self-focused.

[Nicodema]

David, I realize you were not addressing me but I'd like to weigh in. I think the article is valid because regardless of how "we Christians" might perceive OURSELVES in terms of how we interact with the world and whether we isolate ourselves or not, that which we call "the world", and the people in "it", are likely going to have a very different perspective, and it is important for us to understand their perspective so as to understand how well -- or not -- we are fulfilling the great commission of Christ.

It's a matter of perspective and reaching for objectivity. If I am 100% convinced that my motives are right and I am NOT a judgmental person, and yet a dozen different people give me feedback telling me I'm judgmental, then while I may not be obligated to totally change my self assessment, sheer honesty demands that I examine the matter a little more closely and find out what it is I am doing that is causing this type of perception in others and how I can fix that. The same is true with the feedback we receive from the very people we are supposedly trying to "reach" with our "message." If they are getting an impression that is way far away from what we are trying to convey, that's the signal to examine what we may be doing to contribute to that misperception and then correct it. It may be that we think we are one way when we are actually another, or it may be that we ARE the way we think we are BUT we are inadvertently coming across wrong -- in either case, we should be very interested indeed to learn from the matter and correct things from it.

Reaching others in "the world" for Christ is both a privilege AND a responsibility, and we should treat it, collectively and individually, as nothing less.

[David_McQueen]

I think my main point on this article was a cause for reflection. Sometimes I have sat in church(es) and heard how we are part of the community...yet our community dont really know who we are. To them we worship on Saturday, many are vegetarians and we think we are the chosen ones. I can only speak from experience but whenever I travel and tell people what "brand" () of Christian I am they say Seventh Day who...and usually either mention Lindy Chamberlain or David Koresh as the only identifying point.

Some of the key issues the author raised was that of internal power struggles, possibility of self righteousness and the language used to interpret the gospel - that which sets us free. This is something that has to be addressed on a local level. A constant need for self examination because if we are honest am sure most of know this happens on a local level. Sometimes I have to check myself on here as well and think "my goodness what impression are we, am I, giving to those looking on?"

Being in but not of the world is a real challenge of mindset. Jesus knows

[Dr. Shane]

There is a text in the OT where God is rebuking the nation of Israel for only feeding themselves and not the surrounding nations. It uses the metephor of sheep. I thought it was in Isaiah but couldn't find it last night. If I find it I will post it.

[Clio]

Quote:

---

Instead I found the same ugly world in the church that I thought I was leaving behind at last. The experience devastated me and became a significant contributing factor to the destruction of my faith back then.

Today it is different, but today I don't expect anything more -- and in a very real way, that's sad.

---

Nico those very same experiences in every SDA church I have ever attended are why we hold worship services at home. We go occasionally for fellowship and music, and to share, if any will listen, to what Abba Father has done for us lately.

My heart aches for those whose indoctrination into legalism blinds their eyes to the core truth of the Gospel and the love Jesus and Abba Father bear each of them individually.

I have no expectation of getting spiritually fed when I go to church. And that is also a very real, very sad, thing. I asked our Pastor about it, and his response disheartened me even more.

He told me he had to reach the new believers in the church and couldn't put enough meat into his sermons to satisfy me or he'd lose everyone else long before his time was up... they needed feeding on the milk of the Gospel and trying to feed them meat before they were ready would just give them indigestion.

While I can understand his reasoning... I guess... it was disappointing.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

---

My heart aches for those whose indoctrination into legalism blinds their eyes to the core truth of the Gospel and the love Jesus and Abba Father bear each of them individually.

I have no expectation of getting spiritually fed when I go to church.

---

[:"red"] "Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give" [/] Matthew 10:8 KJV

[:"red"] "But there will be glory and honor and peace from God for all who do good--for the Jew first and also for the Gentile." [/] Rom 2:10 NLT

[:"red"] "...not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching." [/] Hebrews 10:25 NKJV

[:"red"]"But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

And as you go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand!

Cure the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, drive out demons. Freely (without pay) you have received, freely (without charge) give." [/] Matt 10:6-8

[:"red"] "A disciple is not above his teacher, nor is a servant or slave above his master.

It is sufficient for the disciple to be like his teacher, and the servant or slave like his master. If they have called the Master of the house [master of the dwelling], Beelzebub how much more will they speak evil of those of His household." [/] Matt 10:24,25

Each are free to answer where the Lord calls. Words to ponder.

[:"red"] "You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. " [/] Matt 5:14 NKJV

Blessings!