bonnie Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 There has always been weather and climate: what you *should* take from the Great Depression history is how bad it will be if climate change causes more frequent and more severe droughts. No,I take from the bible that not if but when.Far more accurate to me than any scientist. We are told that it will be,we are not told that scientists can correct it Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted February 17, 2012 Moderators Share Posted February 17, 2012 *This* thread is about the Herbert Douglass article. I'll stick with that rather than go to the whole issue and cover ground we've already been over many times. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 *This* thread is about the Herbert Douglass article. I'll stick with that rather than go to the whole issue and cover ground we've already been over many times. The why of past centuries of climate change is generally ignored and left unanswered. After several years of family genealogy research dating as far back as the very early 1600's and spanning many countries it is fairly clear extreme weather and changes have always been with us.Much far worse than we have today. Personal letters attest to the horrendous hardships that families went thru for years. What caused it? No cars,minimal populations,no smog etc Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Originally Posted By: Bravus *This* thread is about the Herbert Douglass article. I'll stick with that rather than go to the whole issue and cover ground we've already been over many times. The why of past centuries of climate change is generally ignored and left unanswered. After several years of family genealogy research dating as far back as the very early 1600's and spanning many countries it is fairly clear extreme weather and changes have always been with us.Much far worse than we have today. Personal letters attest to the horrendous hardships that families went thru for years. What caused it? No cars,minimal populations,no smog etc Bonnie; you made a good point re your family geneology research Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 *This* thread is about the Herbert Douglass article. I'll stick with that rather than go to the whole issue and cover ground we've already been over many times. Yes; I agree. Will post a reply to your reply "soon." Take care my friend. Hope it's not too hot over there for you in Australia - lol. if i could send a few degrees of our cold your way; I WOULD. Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted February 17, 2012 Moderators Share Posted February 17, 2012 We need a little two-way pipeline: I can use your air for air conditioning and you can use mine for heating! 27.5 C now, just before 10 am, heading for a high of 31. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted February 17, 2012 Members Share Posted February 17, 2012 I agree that he was making a religious statement. He just chose a very unfortunate illustration. Global warming will not 'end the world'. It will kill millions, and make it a much less hospitable place to live, but no-one is claiming it will end all life, or even all human life. The thing is, his use of this illustration led him to participate in a lot of misinformation, just as collateral damage. If you want to talk about it, you ought to do the minimum research required to avoid misleading people. His message also plays into the 'no need to do anything, this world will be destroyed by God soon anyway' mindset. But we don't *know* when the Second Coming will be. Should we doom people to flood and drought and starvation unrtil then? Or should we, as we were charged to do in Eden, be good stewards? Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 We need a little two-way pipeline: I can use your air for air conditioning and you can use mine for heating! 27.5 C now, just before 10 am, heading for a high of 31. lol Sounds good!! Boy; 31!! I'm glad I am not a welder over there!! Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Bonnie; you made a good point re your family geneology research Science/scientists have contributed greatly to our society.When it comes to certain things I have little faith in their findings. A Geochemist from Stanford claims that Christopher Columbus is responsible for the Little Ice Age.Another claims it was the early american settlers. Science and academia claim there was no world wide flood.Recently I read a very convincing article by scientists that believe they have discovered the "missing link".Convincing if you do not read and believe the biblical account. The other night there was a program by the "bright academic"minds explaining how the myth of Christ's resurrection could be explained.One included a coma inducing drug He was given to feign death. The accounts of extreme climate change and it's drastic effects over centuries cannot be denied or it seems explained. Climate change/global warming is like a new religion. Silly,puny man thinks he can actually over ride what God said centuries ago would happen. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted February 17, 2012 Moderators Share Posted February 17, 2012 You are continuing to confuse 'climate' and 'climate change', bonnie. No-one is claiming there was no *climate* before the Industrial Revolution. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Bonnie; you made a good point re your family geneology research I'd say so, OA. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Originally Posted By: John317 R&H, Aug. 5, 1902: "Those who place themselves under God's control, to be led and guided by Him, will CATCH THE STEADY TREND OF EVENTS ordained by Him to take place.” With this statement, above, I agree 100% That we should be led by the HS. Each side of the issue has an agenda and unfortunately its being driven by politics. As far as the science end of this I will agree with Bravus, not that I agree with him that people are Lying. I do agree that they might be misinformed or even being persuaved(sp) by one thing or the other. But to even suggest that Mr Douglas is lying, is a no no, the man is more honest than most of us put together. I think, at least for me, following the Bible and not going over the top one way or the other on this issue makes the best sense. OA and Bravus make good observations. Bravus being our resident scientist, is always someone that gives us some good insights. OA being one of the most non-political people on this forum is also someone that has good advice to for us to look at. To me neither has an agenda. True, PK. Herb is a man of impeccable integrity. He is a personal friend. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted February 18, 2012 Members Share Posted February 18, 2012 True, PK. Herb is a man of impeccable integrity. He is a personal friend. He was President of AUC, I believe, just before I moved up to Lancaster, MA. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 18, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted February 18, 2012 So many, many lies and completely, repeatedly debunked things in that post. Are you claiming to know that Herbert Douglass is trying to deceive people? Or is it possible he believes something that is either false or that you disagree with? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted February 18, 2012 Moderators Share Posted February 18, 2012 I was talking about the 'facts' in the post, not Pr Douglass' intentions. I will say he *ought* to have known better, but not that he did. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 18, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted February 18, 2012 Excellent points, Bonnie. Bravus, do you agree with any of those points that Bonnie makes? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 18, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted February 18, 2012 OK, I accept that. But I'm not at all sure that Herb Douglass is wrong in what he wrote. I would need to see the reasons and evidence for saying he is wrong. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 18, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted February 18, 2012 ... Can you point to something specific that Douglas said which shows clearly that he intended to say we should not be good stewards of the earth, as we are admonished to in Eden? We can be certain that Herbert Douglass believes God wants people to be good stewards of the earth. I'm sure you have no doubt of that, Overaged, but if anyone else does doubt it, I can ask Dr. Douglass personally. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug yowell Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I agree that he was making a religious statement. He just chose a very unfortunate illustration. Global warming will not 'end the world'. It will kill millions, It will kill millions? Is that your final answer? A prophetic scientific utterence? Millions?? Is this indisputable? How will this occur? Over a period of how many years? And if projected off hundreds of years into the future how is it verifiable? How do those computers know that the other natural elements will remain the same? Don't forget the thousands of credible scientists out there who don't buy into that scenerio. Is this not also a religiously held belief by many global warming/climate change/whatever the latest term is, prophets? If this claim is not true then what will the consequences be if we believe it is true? Saying that global warming is a man made catastrophy that is assured to kill millions is no casual prediction. And if it's wrong the damage done by it's proponents will be incalculable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Originally Posted By: Overaged ... Can you point to something specific that Douglas said which shows clearly that he intended to say we should not be good stewards of the earth, as we are admonished to in Eden? We can be certain that Herbert Douglass believes God wants people to be good stewards of the earth. I'm sure you have no doubt of that, Overaged, but if anyone else does doubt it, I can ask Dr. Douglass personally. I agree; I am pretty sure that if you take the over-all tenor of his writings; that Douglas would not even come close to saying we should not or don't need to do anything re "climate change." Bravus does have some valid questions/concerns re the scientific evidence end of that equation; I just think that the answer to said concerns does not mean what seems so apparent. Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Obviously we have global warming - we are at X-distance from the last Ice age --- and guess what - this is not an ice age. We absolutely have trended "warmer" from the last ice age. Who can doubt it? Know hat else?"Warming On Jupiter, Mars, Pluto, Neptune's Moon & Earth Linked to Increased Solar Activity, Scientists Say " http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?F...59-CC5C23C24651 Looks like the global warming guys win. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug yowell Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Herb is a man of impeccable integrity. He is a personal friend.Was that intended to be a redundancy,og? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted February 18, 2012 Moderators Share Posted February 18, 2012 OK, I accept that. But I'm not at all sure that Herb Douglass is wrong in what he wrote. I would need to see the reasons and evidence for saying he is wrong. Have you read the whole thread? Including my almost point-by-point description of the errors? Don't just take my word for it, though, do your own research. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted February 18, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted February 18, 2012 Are we accountable for the truth of what we disseminate? Yes, but don't you agree that there is disagreement between equally educated, informed and intelligent people over "the truth"? In fact, wouldn't you agree that there are good scientists who don't believe as you when it comes to "global warming"? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overaged Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Originally Posted By: olger Herb is a man of impeccable integrity. He is a personal friend. Was that intended to be a redundancy,og? Doug, what is redundancy? Does it come in different flavors? Quote "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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