Op-Ed: What is a Christian Nation?

[Gordon1]

One Christian nation will demonstrate the exception: the new heaven & new earth - where the citizens will be Christians-in-fact and not merely Christians-in-name.

Either Christ is living within, or we have taken His name in vain.

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: doug yowell

At it's founding, the United States was something like 98% Christian.I thought it's gone pretty well considering.

It's gone pretty well for the majority but I think Native Americans and African Americans may have a different view.

Yes, but the Native's can still practice their religion, live in their own countries, and make a lot of money from their casino's. And after a horrible start African slaves became Americans and eventually became a intregral part of the country's government. And considering that the majority of U.S. citizens were Christians during this period (including the majority of the Black Americans)I'd have to say that all things considered,not perfect but not too bad.

[doug yowell]

Nations of one religion scare the pants off of me. The islamic nations are a fine example of how bad it can go.

Islam and Christianity are not synonyms. P.S. Please say you're wearing underwear?

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: EmptyCross

Nations of one religion scare the pants off of me. The islamic nations are a fine example of how bad it can go.

Christian nations would be comparable in how bad things can go.

Please give an example?

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: pkrause

Is there a repeat in the not so distant future?

Sure. As SDA's we teach that it the apostate Christian church that is used to force people to worship the devil.

Can we consider the Anglican,United Church of Christ,United Methodist,ELCA, Episcopal,AME,and other black apostolic denominations as a part of that apostate group?

[lazarus]

I'd have to say that all things considered,not perfect but not too bad.

Sounds like your describing a round of Golf. Like I said, there are some groups that would characterize things differently. Yup, "not too bad" would be the perspective of the majority population.

[lazarus]

Christian nations would be comparable in how bad things can go.

Please give an example?

United Kingdom, USA, Germany, France.

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: doug yowell

I'd have to say that all things considered,not perfect but not too bad.

Sounds like your describing a round of Golf. Like I said, there are some groups that would characterize things differently. Yup, "not too bad" would be the perspective of the majority population.

Sounds like you're a professional golfer and you've been watching me play golf! I guess the perfectionist can always criticize imperfection,especially from everyone else.The fact remains that neither the Native American "country" or the African countries have much to brag about in comparison. But neither one of those cultures gave a rip about the nature of the treatment of their neighbors. And I don't see them lamenting or attempting to correct their past injustices.That alone gives the Christian nation a foot up.

[doug yowell]

Christian nations would be comparable in how bad things can go.

United Kingdom, USA, Germany, France.

Germany and France were two Christian nations that abandoned their Christianity. France in favor of atheism/reason and Germany in favor of atheism/socialist-totalitarianism.Can you give the bad that the UK and USA have gone? And what nation would you use as a model of goodness?

[olger]

Yes, where do you find these angels of yours Laz?

[M. T. Cross]

Can you give the bad that the UK and USA have gone? And what nation would you use as a model of goodness?

The UK has done a ton of bad over the years! Basically trying to conquer the world. THey were also very active in the crusades and in killing anyone that did not believe in their God. They have not done much bad in modern years, but they are a lot less of a Christian country than they used to be.

USA has done a lot of pretty horrible stuff too along with a lot of good. I really can't see it as a Christian country either. I can't see any country that stresses religious liberty as a "insert religion here " country.

Example of a model of Goodness? Look north my friend look north. cAnAdA

[lazarus]

Quote:

.The fact remains that neither the Native American "country" or the African countries have much to brag about in comparison.

I thought you'd put up a more forceful defense of the shining city.

Quote:

But neither one of those cultures gave a rip about the nature of the treatment of their neighbors.

I surprised you would make such a blanket statement. I don't know much about Native America affairs but a short time on google revealed a number of organizations and alliances that "give a rip"

Here's one:

Native American Alliance For Emergency Preparedness

I have a good friend who works for an NGO and supervises a number of projects in East Africa. He has some great stories of cooperation, development, and reconciliation. He has done a lot of work in Rawanda.

You may not be aware of the deployment of African Union troops in many parts of Africa in recent years

Also see the link below:

http://au.int/en/dp/ps/category/theme/conflict-prevention-and-management.

Quote:

And I don't see them lamenting or attempting to correct their past injustices.That alone gives the Christian nation a foot up.

Perhaps you are not looking.

The Christian nation???? I think the majority of nations in Africa are Christian!!! There is a lot of reconciliation work going on in Africa. Remember the Truth and Reconciliation commission is South Africa initiated by the African majority government. Would America do that?

[lazarus]

Germany and France were two Christian nations that abandoned their Christianity. France in favor of atheism/reason and Germany in favor of atheism/socialist-totalitarianism.

Please support that with some data please remembering the definition of a Christian nation that Shane suggested and that you supported.

[lazarus]

Originally Posted By: doug yowell

Can you give the bad that the UK and USA have gone? And what nation would you use as a model of goodness?

The UK has done a ton of bad over the years! Basically trying to conquer the world. THey were also very active in the crusades and in killing anyone that did not believe in their God. They have not done much bad in modern years, but they are a lot less of a Christian country than they used to be.

USA has done a lot of pretty horrible stuff too along with a lot of good. I really can't see it as a Christian country either. I can't see any country that stresses religious liberty as a "insert religion here " country.

Example of a model of Goodness? Look north my friend look north. cAnAdA

Canada has universal healthcare. They must be a Christian nation.

[lazarus]

And what nation would you use as a model of goodness?

Well, there is no country that is a model of goodness.

Hebrews 16:13. These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth.

14For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

15And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from which they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

16But now they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly: therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he has prepared for them a city.

Many Americans have bought into the delusion that the USA is a better country when the USA has been guilty of many of the same sins as the nations before them. That is not to say that the USA has not brought much good to the world. It most certainly has. The notion of American exceptionalism has give some in this nation a blind spot. It cannot see that it has already has the DNA of oppression in its veins. The treatment of Native Americans and African Americans are examples of that. The period of the last 40 years has been a golden age where American has given freedom to it people but it will soon return to that dark night of oppression. We can see the tools being put in place right now.

A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense

than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death.

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: doug yowell

Can you give the bad that the UK and USA have gone? And what nation would you use as a model of goodness?

The UK has done a ton of bad over the years! Basically trying to conquer the world. THey were also very active in the crusades and in killing anyone that did not believe in their God. They have not done much bad in modern years, but they are a lot less of a Christian country than they used to be.

USA has done a lot of pretty horrible stuff too along with a lot of good. I really can't see it as a Christian country either. I can't see any country that stresses religious liberty as a "insert religion here " country.

Example of a model of Goodness? Look north my friend look north. cAnAdA

Excuse me? Isn't Canada a part of the British Commonwealth? A partner with GB in their interests?

[doug yowell]

Canada has universal healthcare. They must be a Christian nation.

But they have laws criminalizing the criticism of homosexuality and negativity about Islam. Besides, they speak French too. That should automatically disqualify them!

[doug yowell]

Many Americans have bought into the delusion that...

A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense

than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death.

And speaking of delusions, better check your monetary facts before repeating this one. What % of America's GDP is spent on the military? What % is spent on social entitlement programs? And your implication is that the USA doesn't need to have a superior defense in order to be safe and prosperous.

[M. T. Cross]

Excuse me? Isn't Canada a part of the British Commonwealth? A partner with GB in their interests?

First there is no British Commonwealth anymore, there is the Commonwealth of Nations, which yes Canada is a member of.

We however are our own nation, with our own government, that makes our own decisions. We partner with Great Britian when we think it is right to, just like we partner with the U.S. when we think it is right to.

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: lazarus

Canada has universal healthcare. They must be a Christian nation.

But they have laws criminalizing the criticism of homosexuality and negativity about Islam. Besides, they speak French too. That should automatically disqualify them!

We do? Wow, after 42 years of living here you would think I would know that........ and know french as well

[lazarus]

Originally Posted By: lazarus

Many Americans have bought into the delusion that...

A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense

than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death.

And speaking of delusions, better check your monetary facts before repeating this one.

Oh that was MLK by the way.

Quote:

And your implication is that the USA doesn't need to have a superior defense in order to be safe and prosperous.

It doesn't. Many countries are safe and prosperous without a superior military. The USA needs a superior defense to maintain its superiority.

[Overaged]

Doug you make some good points. Obviously he answered it to himself, and those that will agree. I did think for myself he did a good job of answering his own question. Now as far as the welfare system I agree. He was actually using the sabbatical system (7 years) which had more to do with the land, planting and harvesting. The Jewbilee was what had more to do with the welfare, financial, etc., which was a 49 yr deal, where things went back to the original owners, etc. Not sure if he mixed the two or he really didn't know that they were different. Maybe he thought they were interchangeble? Anyway, I thought it was a very good article.

Imagine! Credit card companies cancelling all debts every 7 years! Wouldn't that be WONDERFUL?

I wonder, where is that in the Bible?

[doug yowell]

Many Americans have bought into the delusion that...

A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense

than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death..

Oh that was MLK by the way.

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: doug yowell

Excuse me? Isn't Canada a part of the British Commonwealth? A partner with GB in their interests?

First there is no British Commonwealth anymore, there is the Commonwealth of Nations, which yes Canada is a member of.

We however are our own nation, with our own government, that makes our own decisions. We partner with Great Britian when we think it is right to, just like we partner with the U.S. when we think it is right to.

[Overaged]

Doug is wrong on this count EC. Like the US, we have laws in some provinces, just like they do in some states, regarding the gay lobby agenda. Some of those laws are good, some are not...I think the two countries are kind of similar on that issue. Doug has to realize that Canadians likely do know more than him about their own country.

(Oh, Hi Doug!! )