Moderators John317 Posted March 3, 2012 Moderators Share Posted March 3, 2012 Before Bethlehem, before creation, before Lucifer's fall, Christ was God's Dear Son. At Bethlehem the Son of God also became Son of Man. Agree. Doesn't "Son of Man" mean He became a man? "Son of God" means Jesus was and is God, right? John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted March 3, 2012 Moderators Share Posted March 3, 2012 I favor getting back on the main topic-- the sanctuary-- but it's very interesting to see how some of us still differ in our ideas as to Christ's identity and nature. When we get to heaven, Jesus will no doubt have to conduct classes. John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysimachus Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I favor getting back on the main topic-- the sanctuary-- but it's very interesting to see how some of us still differ in our ideas as to Christ's identity and nature. When we get to heaven, Jesus will no doubt have to conduct classes. ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Originally Posted By: John317 I favor getting back on the main topic-- the sanctuary-- but it's very interesting to see how some of us still differ in our ideas as to Christ's identity and nature. When we get to heaven, Jesus will no doubt have to conduct classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted March 3, 2012 Members Share Posted March 3, 2012 I favor getting back on the main topic-- the sanctuary-- but it's very interesting to see how some of us still differ in our ideas as to Christ's identity and nature. When we get to heaven, Jesus will no doubt have to conduct classes. phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 I favor getting back on the main topic-- the sanctuary-- but it's very interesting to see how some of us still differ in our ideas as to Christ's identity and nature. When we get to heaven, Jesus will no doubt have to conduct classes. Then I suppose you may not agree with what Jesus said about the Holy Spirit will lead you into ALL truth? (wink) Rev. 14:5 shows us that there will be NO lie (blameless) in those who are among the first fruits, the 144,000. Rev. 21:8 and 22:15 shows us that those who believe in and practice a lie will be thrown in the lake of fire. So please tell me, will Jesus be conducting classes for all of those thrown in the lake of fire? Wouldn't it be much better to seek the real truth right now and practice that truth? My take on the nature of Jesus can be found in Ex. 3 where Moses saw (yes he did) all three, the Father, the Holy Spirit and Michael, the Son of God in the bush that appeared to be burning buy wasn't. We see "The Angel of the Lord", the Holy Spirit as the burning-glory of the Lord, and the Father, the one who told Moses that He was going to send His angel (Angel of the Lord) to be with Moses. As for the Sancturary in Heaven, after God left Israel, there was NOTHING for anyone to do in the Sancturary until the last Kingdom of heaven was established in 1844. This will end when the Censor is cast down at the 5th Bowel--the end of the first 37 months of the time of trouble. After that happens, there is no longer any chance for anyone to be converted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Well as you have seen a few dozen times by now - all the sacrifices for all the services are met in the ONE sacrifice of Heb 10 - on the cross... once. One Sacrifice and ONE entry into the Heavenly Sanctuary. As you well know - SDAs have never argued that in heaven Christ must come back to earth and offer Himself up "again" on the cross for each event in the heavenly sanctuary. Thus the purification made for sins - on the cross - is brought into the heavenly sanctuary "once". This is true for the Passover it is also true for the Day of Atonement and for the inauguration of both the Holy Place and Most Holy Place. One sacrifice, One entry into the Sanctuary - John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 - all the sacrifices for all the services are met in the ONE sacrifice of Heb 10 - on the cross... once. One Sacrifice and ONE entry into the Heavenly Sanctuary. As you well know - SDAs have never argued that in heaven Christ must come back to earth and offer Himself up "again" on the cross for each event in the heavenly sanctuary. Thus the purification made for sins - on the cross - is brought into the heavenly sanctuary "once". This is true for the Passover it is also true for the Day of Atonement and for the inauguration of both the Holy Place and Most Holy Place. One sacrifice, One entry into the Sanctuary - but then begins the inauguration, followed by the Holy Place service and then in 1844 the Most Holy Place service. John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibs Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 No doubt about it, Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye--of God ye are, little children, and ye have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you, than he who is in the world. A Freeman In Jesus Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Quoting the Review - Quote: 1. Cleansing and Sacrifice: Notice these two passages: “But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God” (10:12). “[Christ] endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God” (12:2). The first passage reads “one sacrifice for sins” instead of the “purification for sins,” thus clarifying its meaning. The second one establishes that the sacrifice was Christ’s death on the cross; He made purification for sin in the sense that He offered Himself as a sacrificial victim. The cleansing/atoning sacrifice was offered once. In His exaltation He continues to officiate as our high priest in the heavenly sanctuary (8:2). This work is directly connected to our cleansing from sin. http://www.adventistworld.org/article/732/resources/english/issue-2010-1003/cleansing-and-exaltation And of course Heb 9:25-26 (26 being the verse you are avoiding) make it clear that the "offering of Himself" is the act of "suffering" and specifically the "sacrifice of Himself". Instead of quoting vs 25 AND vs 26 - you snip it off at 25 and then add "the offering of Himself is not his death on the cross" as if that missing text in your version of 26 had actually been in the chapter. It is not. John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Daniel 7 says that in that 1844 event "The Son of Man comes in the clouds of Heaven -- to the Ancient of Days". John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysimachus Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Brilliantly stated BobRyan. ~Lysimachus (Marcos S.) Author of article, Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation (see attachment for article) Currently writing a book, Vindicating the Historical School of Prophetic Interpretation Founder of the largest and fastest SDA Apologetics Group on Facebook, Seventh-Day Adventism - Defending the Pillars of the Faith Writer and apologetics contributor at Adventist Defense League Vindicating the Year-Day Principle of Prophetic Interpretation.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Just remember that the Passover Sacrifice was never offered for the cleansing of sin, but did make it possible for those who obeyed the words of God, for the first born (first fruits only), to keep living. So too was the sacrifice Jesus, as the Lamb of God, did for the first fruits right now-as in Rev. 5:9-10 There you will find that the blood of Jesus purchased a Kingdom AND Priests (not a kingdom of priests like many mistakenly believe). The Kingdom is represented by the 5 wise virgins. The Priests are represented by the 144k. Now, to the surprise of everyone here, I will show you something that will really cause some problems because though it sounds wrong, it is exactly the way God showed it with the Atonement for Israel. Rev. 7:9-15 is extreemly important to correctly understand, as this numberless group is the bride, who the 144k and 5 wise virgins help get them ready for the marriage during the first 37 months of the time of trouble. Now hold on to your hat, do you read the words from the one who questions "who are these and HOW did they become converted? Well, please read why, it was because of the 'blood of the lamb'. BUT, this lamb is the same lamb as Jesus told Peter to feed His 'sheep'. The word can be called "Lambkin" or, the Kin of the Lamb. What this shows is that it all should be over with ONLY the 144k and 5 wise being saved, but the multitude are saved because of the blood shed by those who had already been sealed by God (perfect in every way) because they offered their blood, as Jesus did, in order to for this multitude from every tribe, nation and race, to overcome sin too. Did you get that? The 'blood' crying out 'HOW LONG' under the altar IS the blood of these who gave up their lives from those who have already been sealed by God. This is why their blood is under the altar, because only the blood of un blemished (perfect) sacrifice can be under the altar. This is brand new truth that I am sure you have never heard before. Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plley Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 Originally Posted By: Plley Lysimachus,Somewhere (I lost the page) you say that The IJ and the Sabbath are linked together. It sounds very interesting to me, and feel as if there is a deep truth behind it, could you explain a bit more why you say that? I'll get back to you on this as soon as I can sister! =] Thank you Marco.S, Of course, have your time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Rich Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 HiCoud someone help me to answer that question?... It's on my mind for several years and haven't found the answer yet... The question is: Why do we say that Jesus came into the most holy in 1884, because at his death the sanctyary's curtain tore, so it should have no more holy place and holy of holies!! So why? Thanks! Notice what Jesus says in Rev. 11:1-2. There is a judgment for those in the temple aea (no holy and most holy) and all who 'worship there' and then there is a judgment for the outer court yard area, for those at a later time. This in itself blows the mistaken idea of the IJ starting in 1844. The time was correct, but the event was wrong for the early Adventists. What really happened was the Dan. 2' stone cut out without hands was set up at that time as the last Kingdom of Heaven this earth will ever have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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