Increased Light? On What?

[Gibs]

This is mainly to SDA’s but is also true to others, more and more is to come to light to he whom who lives on His Words. First, GW.

Increased Light to Shine.--A spirit of pharisaism has been coming in upon the people who claim to believe the truth for these last days. They are self-satisfied. They have said, "We have the truth. There is no more light for the people of God." But we are not safe when we take a position that we will not accept anything else than that upon which we have settled as truth. We should take the Bible, and investigate it closely for ourselves. We should dig in the mine of God's word for truth. "Light is sown for the righteous, and gladness for the upright in heart." Some have asked me if I thought there was any more light for the people of God. Our minds have become so narrow that we do not seem to understand that the Lord has a mighty work to do for us. Increasing light is to shine upon us; for "the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day."--Review and Herald, June 18, 1889. {CW 34.2}

Many Gems Yet to Be Discovered.--New light will ever be revealed on the word of God to him who is in living connection with the Sun of Righteousness. Let no one come to the conclusion that there is no more truth to be revealed. The diligent, prayerful seeker for truth will find precious rays of light yet to shine forth from the word of God. Many gems are yet scattered that are to be gathered together to become the property of the remnant people of God.--Counsels on Sabbath School Work, p. 34. (1892.) {CW 35.1}

Investigation of Doctrine.--There is no excuse for anyone in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. {CW 35.2}

Adventists, I’m asking you, tell me of the increasing light that has come to the church to you. No I don’t hold to emerging church and the spiritual exercises, NLP, Super NLP and Lab 1,2 and 3 and more, that was dropping down into the darkness so don’t bring up that stuff.

You are locked on prophecy and the church has taken up “the new age salvation theology”.

Maybe don’t comment the new light you see is come in, but I’d rather you made a thread on the subject.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

"He will show you things to come"? To Historicists?

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye--of God ye are, little children, and ye have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you, than he who is in the world.

[Dr. Rich]

Thank you Gibs, as I showed those same quotes many years ago and asked the same type of question(s). I can't count the times I have read a verse in the bible after reading the same verse many times before, and suddenly I had a Ahh Haa moment for I found something new in that verse I just passed over before. Like the verse you gave above, John 16:13, and the word "guide". Does not this mean that the Holy Spirit does not blab out like a voice in your head--such and such, but It leads one to read what Jesus said before so that we can now get a clear understanding from them.

It is MY OWN opinion, that Jesus gave us enough to fully understand how salvation works, and then Satan came along and thru more and different words at us to clog up the full understanding of the words of Jesus. If Jesus did not give us everything we need, then He was a failure, and I know He wasn't.

He said there is just ONE teacher and leader that is Himself. The disciples were not given any leadership role, as they ALL were commanded by Jesus to go to the whole world, Jews and Gentiles alike, and teach the same thing to the world as what Jesus taught them. (Matt. 28:20)

The only place where leadership was taught, was from Paul's words as it was him who invented the Christian Church. Jesus had all of the apostles HE CALLED and the disciples, become servants, just as Jesus came to serve.

[Gibs]

Yes all things must be brought to the "Anvil" the Holy Word of God and be hammered out, is it TRUTH? We must do like the Bereans of old were commended for doing.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Lysimachus]

So long as the new light does not eclipse the old light, but adds to it, magnifies it, and enhances it, it can be considered as truth. But whenever new so called "light" ends up eclipsing and replacing old pillars that have been firmly established by our Lord, it is an instant sign that it is error.

Those things that we must "unlearn" will never be uttered as "truth" by Sister White. All those pillars she endorsed will not be part of that category to "unlearn".

What must we unlearn? False things that crept into the Church for which Sister White did not endorse.

[Dr. Rich]

Marcos, EGW also said there are MANY, MANY things to unlearn in order to learn NEW things. Your theory about not letting go of old is blown away by the triming of the wicks in the ten virgin prophecy.

The Jewish leaders had this same problem, they could NOT get rid of long held mistaken belief in order to accept what Jesus was teaching.

Ladiocia in Rev. 3 are told the get rid of their long held mistaken belief in order to buy new truth. Thinking you don't need to get rid of long held beliefs to receive and understand anything new is a dangerious thing to do.

[miz3]

Marcos, EGW also said there are MANY, MANY things to unlearn in order to learn NEW things. Your theory about not letting go of old is blown away by the triming of the wicks in the ten virgin prophecy.

The Jewish leaders had this same problem, they could NOT get rid of long held mistaken belief in order to accept what Jesus was teaching.

Ladiocia in Rev. 3 are told the get rid of their long held mistaken belief in order to buy new truth. Thinking you don't need to get rid of long held beliefs to receive and understand anything new is a dangerious thing to do.

[Gibs]

Lysimachus,

Please my Bro. read this quote again more carefully,

"Investigation of Doctrine".--"There is no excuse for anyone in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation." {CW 35.2}

I assure you, she knew all things were not ironed out, near the end the leadership wasn't hearing her well at all, just notice many of her statements after 1901 and especially after 1903, She was disgusted to be sure.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

No ones ideas are infallible. So it behooves us to continue to investigate all things expounded to ascertain if they be true.

Only God is infallible. We must be watching and ready to receive beams of increasing light from him for the unfolding of His prophecies to us.

Is Revelation properly understood by many yet? No I am sure of that. Check it out without men's guiding, ask for His and you may begin to see it.

All need to know there is a blessing given for all who will read and study the Revelation.

Re 1:3 ¶ Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

OK, John like all the prophets saw it was in their time but now the fulfillment of the signs are on us. Now is the time to be awake WE ARE THERE NOW!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[phkrause]

Marcos, EGW also said there are MANY, MANY things to unlearn in order to learn NEW things. Your theory about not letting go of old is blown away by the triming of the wicks in the ten virgin prophecy.

The Jewish leaders had this same problem, they could NOT get rid of long held mistaken belief in order to accept what Jesus was teaching.

Ladiocia in Rev. 3 are told the get rid of their long held mistaken belief in order to buy new truth. Thinking you don't need to get rid of long held beliefs to receive and understand anything new is a dangerious thing to do.

What's really interesting here is, that your welling to accept what she says here but everything else she lies about? I think that says it all.

[Dr. Rich]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

Marcos, EGW also said there are MANY, MANY things to unlearn in order to learn NEW things. Your theory about not letting go of old is blown away by the triming of the wicks in the ten virgin prophecy.

The Jewish leaders had this same problem, they could NOT get rid of long held mistaken belief in order to accept what Jesus was teaching.

Ladiocia in Rev. 3 are told the get rid of their long held mistaken belief in order to buy new truth. Thinking you don't need to get rid of long held beliefs to receive and understand anything new is a dangerious thing to do.

What's really interesting here is, that your welling to accept what she says here but everything else she lies about? I think that says it all.

PK, it is clear that you have not read all of my posts or you would see where I have said many times that EGW said and wrote MANY good things and many things that are completely true--same for Paul's words! After all, a good counterfeit must look and smell like the real truth!

I take exception to your false testimony about me, but then IF it was just your opinion, then so be it. But it clearly is NOT the truth. I do not use Paul's or EGW's writings to form my belief, but since others do, then I could sit here all day long and answer those silly posts with the words of Paul and EGW. Several of us have shown that Adventists are famous for cut and paste theology, as they take what they want IF it agrees with them, but then reject the words from the same person IF it does not agree--such as keeping women quiet in church to mention just ONE.

[Lysimachus]

Like I meant, we have made expositions we may need to unlearn, but she was not referring to anything she has written. What she has written, stays in stone.

For example: When she stated in The Great Controversy that Revelation 13 applies to the 1260 years and the Dark Ages, from 538 to 1798, that is not included among those things that we must "unlearn". Unequivocally.

That means we'd have to discard The Great Controversy and not be able to pass it out to anyone anymore, because then the book has errors, and we'd be passing out a book with errors. That means' that Ellen White's desire for The Great Controversy to be planted in every home would be for naught, and we wouldn't be able to go about doing so because part of the things that we must "unlearn" are those things for which she expounded on in The Great Controversy.

No.

Not one particle of what she has endorsed is part of anything that we must "unlearn". Only those things which she has not commented on are subject to be among that category of possible things that we may need to unlearn.

With all due respect, I believe you are abusing and misusing Ellen White's statements Gibs. I feel that you are looking at them wrong and need to relook at them in a different light.

[Gibs]

Lysimachus,

I'm afraid she did include herself in with the rest as she used the word "OUR", notice, here is part of her statement from my original post,

"Investigation of Doctrine.--There is no excuse for anyone in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without an error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people, is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. {CW 35.2}

Many things were not set in "concrete" yet as she knew much needed to be changed and she couldn't get them to do it, she tried on things and was defeated solidly after 1903, read some of her statements after that year, she had changed her testimony of the church.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Lysimachus]

"Our", meaning, the Church's. She is not including what she wrote in The Great Controversy, the book that she wanted everyone in the world to be exposed to.

Imagine what you are setting up for yourself Gibs.

You have a book, The Great Controversy, which is worthless, as it is filled with errors.

Then you take on the monumental task of spreading this book into every home!

Then guess what?

Now you have to go to each home, and say...

..."however, I need to tell you some things...there are errors in this book....let me explain..." Then imagine the people giving you a glare..."but I thought you said this book was full of truth...why would you share this with us?" And you will have no answer.

You will throw everyone into confusion. At this moment, we, as Adventists, lose our identity. It creates a total mess which the Lord would never want us to go through.

The Lord God of Heaven would never allow a book--the ONLY book that exposes the Papacy for who it really is--to be filled with so many errors, such as Revelation 13 being applied to the future and not applying to the 1260 years.

This is not new light. As pointed out by proving from the Bible alone that it is not pointing to the future, this is error, not new light.

Whatever things we must learn, or unlearn, one thing is for sure...it is not our prophetic pillars of the time periods. The 42 month prophecy and the deadly wound of Revelation 13 is past, not future. To conclude otherwise is to breathe life into Jesuit philosophy, and injure the Adventist cause.

[skyblue888]

I agree with lysi. And there are many things from the Bible and the SoP that we, as a people, have understood or interpreted wrongly, and many things that still need to be discovered both in the Bible and in the Testimonies. I believe we have only got a glimpse of the gems of truth yet to be discovered in the Bible and the Testimonies. And what the Lord has already revealed is to shine more brightly as we near the end.

sky

[Gibs]

Sky, Lysi, Here is an example of what is in the G. C. book.

"It has been shown that the United States is the power represented by the beast with lamblike horns, and that this prophecy will be fulfilled when the United States shall enforce Sunday observance, which Rome claims as the special acknowledgment of her supremacy."{GC 578.3}

She didn't really believe this, please read a statement she made only in the book shown here and in a manuscript. Why? Because it would have been too much in conflict with what the church and U. Smith got embedded. Please read this,

"In Revelation we read concerning Satan: "And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, and deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: and that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name" (Revelation 13:13-17). . . . {3SM 393.1}

She quotes Rev 13:13-17 verbatum KJV and I included here verses 11, 12 to show they cannot be separated from verse 13.

Re 13:11 ¶ And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

Re 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Re 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

Re 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Re 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Re 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Re 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Also with any discerment at all one can plainly see from verse Rev 13:11 on to the end of the chapter it is Satan and don't let up, the text holds it together. The 666 in verse 18 is Satan's number! And yes Satan is the man God is speaking of, some reading of Eze. clears that up,

Eze 28:9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.

Eze 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Ladies and Gentlemen, Brothers and Sisters, this should show you EGW was not the "KING" of the church.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Kevin H]

Mrs. White was always willing to study and to grow. Her visions had a specific structure that she saw as more important than the multi applications, however we have come to where we no longer see the forest for the trees. As we learn how to see what SHE saw as important, we don't have to run into the problem that Sky and Lysimachus are worried about. Also, Mrs. White gave us what was to keep the church on the right track, the best option of things that the church would consider at the time, not the definitive answer.

We have so much more light to learn. There have been so may discoveries in Biblical Studies over the past century. However while we have had some who have been open to this evidence, most have shut it out, or only accept what can be used to support what we already believe as we cling to where the pioneers fell asleep or worst yet, speculations based on what they knew that grows into more speculations and these speculations become traditon, and as we face last day events, we will be as unprepared for them as the Pharicees, who had the prophecies, were as they compaired THEIR UNDERSTANDING of the prophecies with Jesus.

[Gibs]

EGW knew the scroll of prophecy was not fully unrolled yet in their time, here is one example,

"This is our work. The light that we have upon the third angel's message is the true light. The mark of the beast is exactly what it has been proclaimed to be. Not all in regard to this matter is yet understood, and will not be understood until the unrolling of the scroll; but a most solemn work is to be accomplished in our world. The Lord's command to His servants is: Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and show My people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins." Verse 1.

A message that will arouse the churches is to be proclaimed. Every effort is to be made to give the light, not only to our people, but to the world. I have been instructed that the prophecies of Daniel and the Revelation should be printed in small books, with the necessary explanations, and should be sent all over the world. Our own people need to have the light placed before them in clearer lines. {8T 159.3}

Why? Because those prophecies were and are still future!

The Historic view of prophecy don't stand. What is apparent among Adventists is the refusal to truly see the points brought out that all is not past.

All of Revelation Chapter 13: has to happen after 1798 and the beast of Rev. 13:11 is the beast who gives the first beast of the chapter HIS seat HIS power and HIS great authority, until he is allowed by Yahweh to come forth in a body personating Christ taking over the earth as it's king. Then folks it will be finished in short ordeer!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Kevin H]

Gibs, I'd have to look as what you wrote in the above post again a few times, my first impression is not too comfortable but at least you seem to be studying. It is by these studies and discussions that the Holy Spirit leads us.

Now I see Mrs. White as first applying the second beast to the US, then expanding it to when Apostate Protestantism replaces the American Republic and joins the healing of the deadly wound.

Over the past few decades this has been happening as we have been getting farther and farther from the constitution and forming into a new world empire. The way the federal goverment has turned into a puppet for the Federal Reserve (not a part of the goverment, but who picks our major candatates: currently everyone running for President, except for Ron Paul, are involved with the Federal Reserve and counsel of Forigen Affairs) and how they are getting even more powerful through the Patriot Act, at the expense of the constitution. We are seeing the American Republic transforming into a whole new system as the American Empire grows. Protestants are supporting this change, and pushing to remove the wall of sepperation between church and state and to have this new form of goverment use laws to push their form of godlyness instead of allowing the power of the Holy Spirit to change hearts.

Our traditions are blinding us to this situation. Yesterday I posted an article about the major role that the Pope is playing in the building of this system. Few have looked at it and only Sky replied but if I have not misunderstood Sky's post, it seemed like a "We don't have to worry about this, we start worrying when the Pope fulfills our tradition about what the role of the Pope in the last days will be" when I see this article as the fulfillment of what Mrs. White and the Bible predicted about the Pope (of course this comes from the traditon that sees the Pope as the WHOLE beast instead of seeing the Pope as a part of the 5th head and that he would be playing a role in the formation of the 7th head)

[Kevin H]

Gibs: I see you just posted another post, while not fully comfortatable with it, I like it a lot better than the one before.

[Lysimachus]

I hope you will respect that I disagree with you Gibs. Ellen White would not have allowed those writings to go on in the Great Controversy if they were false. She had 5 years from 1911 to notice the errors!

Even if it was Smith's idea, she agreed with it, otherwise, she would not have given the final "okay" for the final version of the GC.

[Lysimachus]

The Historic view of prophecy don't stand.

It blows my mind Gibs how you can go this far to make a statement this blatant. In a nutshell, you are giving the Jesuits, Darby and ALL the Protestants the credit for being right about Futurism, and Adventism and all the Protestants were wrong that the Historicist application of Bible prophecy and the Papacy is false.

In other words, the very platform for which the entire reformation rested was a false platform.

Not to mention that you even love to develop your own little "off-shoot" ideas, such as the 70 weeks ended in 33 A.D., even though Bob Pickle has proven this mathematically impossible.

How long is this going to go on Gibs?

You are distracting us from the important messages that we need to be bearing to the world. You are so "hung up" and pushing these ideas, aren't you?

[skyblue888]

Sky, Lysi, Here is an example of what is in the G. C. book.

"It has been shown that the United States is the power represented by the beast with lamblike horns, and that this prophecy will be fulfilled when the United States shall enforce Sunday observance, which Rome claims as the special acknowledgment of her supremacy."{GC 578.3}

Gibs

______________

It is the Holy Spirit who is stating the truth in that statement above and nothing but the truth. I read your commentary but I can't for the life of me figure out what you are trying to say. As to the number 666 I suggest you double check with A Word To The Little Flock and you will see that on page 19 Ellen White is saying that this number has not been made up yet and will not be made up until the buy-and-sell decree. I realize not many adventits know this but it is plainly told there on that page in that booklet where she also says that this number is not the number of the beast but the number of the image beast.

sky

[Gibs]

Kevin,

For me there is no doubt about it, she began to see the the USA could not be the beast of Rev 13:11.

For one is the USA going to bring down fire from heaven to prove it is God. the verse says "he" not it. Does the USA give the first beast of the chapter HIS seat HIS power and HIS great authority? No, it don't jibe up, it don't fit in the building. Is the USA the man at the end that is the 666 that the verse speaks of.

It don't take any discernment at all to see it is very plain the beast is Satan coming up out of the earth where he was cast into.

Re 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Re 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

You see right now Satan is not visible to man and yet he is very much alive as and invisible spirit.

It is going to happen and not far down the road of time. It will get ROUGH though first, perilous times are upon us.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Lysimachus]

Kevin,

For me there is no doubt about it, she began to see the the USA could not be the beast of Rev 13:11.

For one is the USA going to bring down fire from heaven to prove it is God. the verse says "he" not it. Does the USA give the first beast of the chapter HIS seat HIS power and HIS great authority? No, it don't jibe up, it don't fit in the building. Is the USA the man at the end that is the 666 that the verse speaks of.

Paul in Romans 13 calls the Roman power a "he", who wields the sword. Also, the USA does call fire down from heaven, 1. Through their nuclear missile power, and 2. Through the voice of false protestantism calling fire (which is a symbol of the Holy Spirit) down from heaven. Ever see those videos with Benny Hinn calling fire down from heaven?

A "man" is a symbol of a "power". A beast is referred to as a "he".

You are espousing spurious ideas that emanate straight from the Psuedepigraphal writings---did you know that this is where Ireneaus and Hippolytus got their "one-man Antichrist" idea, possessing all the power of the Devil? They didn't get it from the Bible. They got it from the Beliar Man myth, that came from Paganism, ---he was an "anti-Messiah" creature that called fire down from heaven and moved mountains. This was extra-Biblical trash, that had pagan elements infused into it stemming from Persian Zoroastrian Dualism.

Futurism is the "epotome" of the voice of the false prophet. It is the most Satanic driving force for the last-day deceptions, so that ALL the world will wonder after the beast.

You have me more worried about you Gibs every day.

[skyblue888]

Yesterday I posted an article about the major role that the Pope is playing in the building of this system. Few have looked at it and only Sky replied but if I have not misunderstood Sky's post, it seemed like a "We don't have to worry about this, we start worrying when the Pope fulfills our tradition about what the role of the Pope in the last days will be" when I see this article as the fulfillment of what Mrs. White and the Bible predicted about the Pope (of course this comes from the traditon that sees the Pope as the WHOLE beast instead of seeing the Pope as a part of the 5th head and that he would be playing a role in the formation of the 7th head)

Gibs

____________

"We don't have to worry about this, we start worrying when the Pope fulfills our tradition about what the role of the Pope in the last days will be"

Please Gibs, if you are going to quote my words, quote them as posted k? Because these are not my words you have quoted. What i have said is that for now the focus is not to be on the Pope per se but on the United States where church and state are to unite to enforce Sunday worship. The papacy cannot regain her lost supremacy until this is fulfilled. The image of the beast must first be made in the US and every country on the globe to follow her example in making an image to the beast enforcing Sunday worship and then when apostate protestantism shall give her power and authority to the papacy, then her wound will be healed, not before. This is what I have said.

sky