what is breaking the Sabbath to you?

[doctortechie]

Some people ride their bikes on the Sabbath. Some people read the newspaper. Some sit and read their Bibles at the beach. Some eat out at a restaurant. Some go to the hospital to perform surgery. Some have picnics in the park. Some go to the museum.

What do you think constitutes 'breaking the Sabbath'?

[Taylor]

It isn't nearly so much what you do as the motivation behind what you do. For instance, if it does not remind you of God, if it does not draw you closer to God and to friends and family then it isn't appropriate for the SAbbath hours. That makes trying to figure out what to do and what not to do a lot easier, as the focus is different, maybe.

Just my 2 cents

[Dr. Shane]

Some people ride their bikes on the Sabbath. [:"blue"] OK [/]

Some people read the newspaper. [:"blue"] Sin ~ unless it is a Christian paper [/]

Some sit and read their Bibles at the beach. [:"blue"] OK [/]

Some eat out at a restaurant. [:"blue"] Sin [/]

Some go to the hospital to perform surgery. [:"blue"] Sin ~ unless an emergency [/]

Some have picnics in the park. [:"blue"] OK ~ if food was prepared before the Sabbath [/]

Some go to the museum. [:"blue"] Sin if not Christian [/]

[CanadianHouse]

Isn't this typical of Adventists (myself included) that we always draw on the negitive.

When people ask "Whats the difference between Adventists and other religious beleives, we usually bring out the negitives...we don't eat this, we don't do that, we don't beleive that...etc.

Cops goto to work on Sabbath (none emergency situations), as do nurses (thats probably why most Adventists get into the health system so that they don't have to face the Sabbath challange of working on Sabbath because its alright in the health system)as do doctors, PSW's, nursing home people etc.

Sabbath breaking is self pleasure. If it deals with self (entertainment, pleasure, satisfaction) then that would be breaking the Sabbath.

[Dr. Shane]

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thats probably why most Adventists get into the health system so that they don't have to face the Sabbath challange of working on Sabbath because its alright in the health system

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I doubt that. I think they go into the health profession because they are called into it. Adventists believe the medical ministry is a calling equal to that of the clergy.

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Sabbath breaking is self pleasure.

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So why does the Bible call the Sabbath a delight?

[CanadianHouse]

It appears that you missed the first part of that verse. Let's look at it again shall we.

"If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD..."

Isaiah 58:13-14

That says it all.

[Robert]

Quote:

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your own pleasure

....

desisting from your own ways,From seeking your own pleasure, And speaking your own word,

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This Old Testament request is a bit vague. Perhaps Isaiah had something specific in mind?

Isn't going on a nature walk, pleasurable?...etc. These are principles for each to work out....

The Sabbath is really about not doing unnecessary work as an outward sign of justification by faith. Hence, "anyone who enters God’s rest [the gospel] also rests from his own work, just as God did from his" work of redemption." [Heb 4:10]

[K]

I am always amazed at how we love to be able to look at a list and say what is right and what is not right.

I have know people who won't use their boat or swim in their pools on Sabbath; but if we are out in nature and there is a stream, then it is ok to get into the water. (Don't you think God just watches all of this and smiles at how silly we really are)

It is not ok to eat out; but if you are a working woman who is up late into the night trying to get ready for Sabbath, then it is ok to work on the Sabbath. Try to prepare a meal for people to eat at your house as a single 60+hour a week working woman. I was up at 4:00 this Sabbath preparing food for the saints at church. Try to have a potluck at church that runs smoothly. If you don't stay in the kitchen during the church service, you end up with a fiasco for potluck because it takes work to do a good job in a big church with potluck.

So doctortechie what is the answer. The answer lies in each person's heart. I don't feel like it is sin to cook for others and serve them on Sabbath. I actually feel God expects us to do our best for others.

The reality of your list is that at one time answering the list the way Shane did was really important to me; but as I really study and pray, I find out that the list is the least important thing to God. The most important thing to God is my heart. I have gotten out of the list business, and more into the relationship business.

K

[doctortechie]

Thanks K. I appreciate your input. Personally, my "list" would probably be similar to what Shane said above. Now, I don't mentally make a "list" when it comes to the Sabbath because I don't want to legalize a joyous time that I spend with the Lord and my family. But then again, there are things I wouldn't do on the Sabbath so I suppose I draw my line in the sand as to how far I would go.

[Robert]

Quote:

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But then again, there are things I wouldn't do on the Sabbath so I suppose I draw my line in the sand as to how far I would go.

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But the problem is that many "church" people expect you to keep their list of Sabbath dos and don'ts! That is legalism....In fact most Adventists don't know why they keep the Sabbath. They tell me, "Because God said so...."

At least I can tell you why I "acknowledge the Sabbath" and it doesn't even come from the law.

You see I have accepted Paul's gospel and therefore I am resting in Christ's doing and dying. As a sign of my justification by faith I cease from unnecessary labor (i.e., my employment).

As God rested from His complete work of redemption "in Christ Jesus", He has asked NC believers to rest from their normal labor as a sign that they agree that some 2000 years ago He rested on the Sabbath from His work in Jesus Christ [see Heb 4:1-10].

Here's my list (Generally speaking):

1] No employment-work unless there's an emergency.

2] No TV except for maybe a few minutes of news if something is going on.

3] I listen to Christian music....Lets see; right now I am listening to Rebecca St. James. If not I listen to the music on local Christian radio, 89.7 FM

4] Yes, I will eat out at a restaurant.

5] I'll buy gas if necessary.

6] Yard work...are you kidding? Rest day....

Now I do not always keep these things perfectly, but I try to make the day different as a memorial to redemption.

Oh yeah, and I spend more time on AdventistClub debating the legalists

Rob

[Dr. Shane]

A lot of the dos and don'ts are in the Bible and not for us to establish. The Commandment itself says we are not to have others employed for us on the Sabbath day - including our animals! We are told not to do business on the Sabbath and not to bake on the Sabbath. Those commands are all Biblical. We are to remember the Sabbath all week long, not just when it arrives. I have found that when I break the Sabbath it is almost always because I failed to prepare for it.

[Robert]

Quote:

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The Commandment itself says we are not to have others employed for us on the Sabbath day - including our animals! We are told not to do business on the Sabbath and not to bake on the Sabbath.

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Ex 20:10 “in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle….

In the days of Israel work was strictly agricultural. So the idea was to put away normal everyday (unnecessary) work….Nothing else, nothing more!

[Nicodema]

I find it very difficult to transition in and out of Sabbath mind. For example when Sabbath ends I have a hard time allowing myself to do things I would not do on Sabbath because I'm still in "sabbath mode". I can see why the Israelites devised rituals to mark the beginning and end of Sabbath, it helps transition the mind.

I have done things on Sabbath I would not normally do as a way of spending time with someone I love, such as play a 2-player (cooperative) video game on Friday evening. I'm a bit fuzzy where to draw the lines because I don't feel close to God and often feel that I am lost and He is far from me. I often feel like I'm in the syndrome of trying to turn myself into a car by standing around inside a garage, so to speak, and that really interferes with anything I do to try to get to know Christ (or makes me severely avoidant of the things I could be doing like reading scripture or praying). I desperately want God to lift me out of the place I'm in right now and my desperation gets in the way too. Everything I think, feel, or do is so blatantly self-centered in my own sight that I cannot find peace or rest even on Sabbath.

One thing I do is set aside work. I won't work on Sabbath. I'll put the dishes in the sink, even, and wait till Sunday to put them in the dishwasher most of the time if I'm thinking about it. A few times I may have rinsed and put them in on Sat. evening before sunset.

My whole concept of sin is nonexistent or hallucinatory. I think my whole existence is sin, but I have no cognizance of any particular sin I could single out except for a couple things that I can't correct without sinning worse at least in my view. Like, after having lived an essentially self-serving life to the point where I treated other people like props on my stage, I want to make sure I value the people and relationships in my life instead of taking them for granted. So I don't want to do anything that will destroy a relationshp or a person's heart, which to me is a worse sin than having a relationship that could be technically defined as sinful under the strict interpretation of the Law.

I'm rambling again. Just ignore me.

[Amelia]

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But the problem is that many "church" people expect you to keep their list of Sabbath dos and don'ts!

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Hit the nail on the head here Robert. And its not just Sabbath dos and don'ts. This is why we judge our brothers and sisters so critically, when we really should be judging out own actions. Jeasus has a selfless love. We still have the self love.

[Robert]

Quote:

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One thing I do is set aside work. I won't work on Sabbath. I'll put the dishes in the sink, even, and wait till Sunday to put them in the dishwasher most of the time if I'm thinking about it.

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That's okay, but really the N.T. just asks us to rest from our normal work....Making the day different is good, however all of us need to do it for the right reason and never as a means of earning God's love and/or salvation.

When one really understands its link to the gospel, he/she will be more then happy to rest....

Think of it this way: What was Adam and Eve's first day of rest? Right...the 7th day, but it was there first day!

This is significant....First God created everything, then He made them perfect. All they needed to do was to receive what was already accomplished. They began by resting in God's perfect world....

The same is true redemption! God worked, and worked, and worked....For some 33 years God worked "in Christ" in saving the human race. When was His work finished...or better yet, when were we reconciled to God? Right, when our humanity died "in Christ"....[see Rom 5:10]

So when you rest this Sabbath, you must remember that salvation has already been accomplished some 2,052 Sabbaths ago....What did you do? Nothing! You just received His rest....You entered "His rest". Like creation, you can't do anything but rest. It's complete already.

As to sin, Nico, yes we are sinners…and yes I bring up the spirit of the law a lot. I do it to get the legalists to give up and rest in Christ….I do it to open their eyes, not to get them depressed. So the only solution to someone who sees their sinfulness is to look at Christ….Look at His love…look at that love that loves YOU more…. Remember Christ couldn’t see beyond the portals of the tomb. He completely depended on His Father for everything...especially the hope of His resurrection. So when God abandoned Him, Jesus though that this is it…no future…no heaven. In other words He was more than willing to lay His life down so that His enemies (those who were spitting on Him…calling Him names ….those who were taking delight in murdering Him could live eternally in His place. If you concentrate on that you will never be the same….And guess what...You’ll grow…you’ll start experiencing freedom form besetting habits….

Rob

[Dr. Shane]

My understanding of the Sabbath is that it is a weekly holiday. When we break the word up what do we get? Holi - Day or Holy Day. I believe it is God's intent that we have a holiday not once a month but once a week. The prohibitions for the Sabbath are for our own good.

Have you ever taken a vacation and done so much it took you a week after your vacation to recover from the vacation? I have. The truth is that such vacations don't provide us any rest but quite the contrary. God wants to prevent the Sabbath from becoming like our over-booked vacations.

Where I live we have church services to welcome in the Sabbath and church services to bid it farewell. After bidding it farewell we often have a social or go over to each other homes. Often times instead of going to vespers on Friday we will visit another member's home and welcome in the Sabbath with them.

[Restin]

When I was a teen and lived with my grandmother, I wasn't allowed to do ANYTHING but read the Bible on the sabbath. I was a hyperactive child and the sabbath was pure agony...watch the clock, sit and wait while the day drags like purgatory hell already. The adults slept all afternoon, and probably earned that right as well. Yes, I know what's in the Bible because of that rule, but I dreaded the sabbath, resented it, got red-faced angry, couldn't hardly wait for the very minute of sundown to be released from my bondage. Left the church as soon as I graduated and got out of the house. Didn't come back for 20 yrs. I'm sure my grandmother will be in heaven, no doubt about it...not so sure about myself the rebel. So what about that, you who think you know what God thinks about what to do or not do on the sabbath?

[Amelia]

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That's okay, but really the N.T. just asks us to rest from our normal work

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Robert, for a large % of the population, doing dishes is normal work. Normal everyday work. Along with laundry, cleaning, ironing, meal making, child rearing, husband rearing etc. So the SAHM should be able to set these things aside and enjoy the Sabbath.

[Morning Glory]

Right on, Amelia!! I am a bit dismayed to read the 4 th commandment and the list of everyone it says should rest from work, but "wife" isn't mentioned!! I think that it probably implies the husband and wife, however since it was such a patriachal society, I find it odd that wife isn't included. oh well.

I feel for you, Restin, about being forbidden to do anything except read the Bible on Sabbath afternoons. As a teen, I was allowed to go on hikes and spend time with my friends. I might mention that my friends were church kids who I didn't get to see during the week, they all lived too far away. My mom made sure that we had other Sabbath books and such that we could read, too.

I remember when my step daughter was young.....she was someone who couldn't sit still as a rule, so we were a bit challenged to keep her "entertained" so to speak, on Sabbath afternoons. We did a variety of things with her: Walks in the woods, parks, bike rides, nature movies, coloring books, legos, 4 wheeling expeditions. I even made cookies with her. Now before you go judging me, we only had her on Sabbaths. So, to bake cookies was NOT a "usual" activity.

I think that it behooves parents, esp, to make the Sabbath a FUN day for their children. It takes forethought and planning, to be sure, but I think that the eternal rewards make it very worth the effort.

If I understand the Bible correctly, Jesus says a number of times that we are to do good on the Sabbath. The Pathfinder Club at our church used to go to the inner city and pass out sandwiches and such on Sabbath afternoons. That is certainly doing good, and for the kids to be together is fun for them. Especially with enthusiastic adult leaders.

[CanadianHouse]

Here is what Ellen White has to say about dishes on Sabbath...

Sabbath Dishes.--We would charge all not to wash their dishes on the Sabbath if this can possibly be avoided. God is dishonored by any unnecessary work done on His holy day. It is not inconsistent, but proper, that the dishes should be left unwashed till the close of the Sabbath, if this can be managed.--Letter 104, 1901

For me, from now on they'll sit until after Sabbath.

[Morning Glory]

My understanding is that the word "pleasure" used in Isaiah and other places in referrence to Sabbath keeping specifically meant business pleasure....as in the pleasure one gets from making a super good business deal, or sale. My understanding is that that meaning has NOTHING in common with what we in the 21st century refer to as "pleasure", as in enjoying doing something such as a nature walk, spending time with family, reading a good Christian book, listening to christian music, etc. (also marital relations)

My understanding from reading and studying the OT books is that the ancient Hebrews drifted from "keeping" the Sabbath holy as in refraining from work, to using that day to hold markets and enticing the surrounding peoples to come and purchase goods on the Sabbath. Kind of like today when most of the world does a LOT of commerce on Sabbath, and we as Sabbath keepers could be tempted to think that we are missing out on profits if we don't keep our own businesses open.

By coming to this understanding of the word translated pleasure in Isaiah, it has given me freedom to truly enjoy the Sabbath. And, to NOT feel guilty about doing some of the things that in the "olden" days we were told was sin.

[Amelia]

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I even made cookies with her.

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MG, personally I think this kind of activity where the adult is not only doing something fun with the child but also instructive, is great. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

[Amelia]

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My understanding is that the word "pleasure" used in Isaiah and other places in referrence to Sabbath keeping specifically meant business pleasure

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How about pleasure = self satisfaction? Pride? Vanity?

[Restin]

I will have to admit that the Sabbath has been a major ordeal for me until I got my computer a few years ago. Now I even look forward to the Sabbath as I use that day to go all over the web to various religious and mental health forums to offer Jesus as inner self Helper. I have several websites of my own that point to God, and invite others to look at them. I'm especially interested in reaching New Age intellectuals as i came out from that background myself.

[aldona]

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Some people ride their bikes on the Sabbath. [:"blue"] OK [/]

Some people read the newspaper. [:"blue"] Sin ~ unless it is a Christian paper [/]

Some sit and read their Bibles at the beach. [:"blue"] OK [/]

Some eat out at a restaurant. [:"blue"] Sin [/]

Some go to the hospital to perform surgery. [:"blue"] Sin ~ unless an emergency [/]

Some have picnics in the park. [:"blue"] OK ~ if food was prepared before the Sabbath [/]

Some go to the museum. [:"blue"] Sin if not Christian [/]

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Thank you for that, Rabbi Shane. If I have any further doubts about any activities on Sabbath, I will bring the matter to you for your approval right away.

But I am concerned...If there are other Adventists out there who love God and want to honor the Sabbath, but see one or more of these points differently to you, are they eternally lost?

What a fine example of how we have become everything that we accuse the Pharisees of old of being.

aldona