Moderators Gerr Posted June 8, 2012 Moderators Share Posted June 8, 2012 Much has been said about the need to be overcomers or conquerors. But just what are we to overcome? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Much has been said about the need to be overcomers or conquerors. But just what are we to overcome? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyblue888 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 "In Him was found the perfect ideal. To reveal this ideal as the only standard for attainment; to show what every human being might become; what, through the indwelling of humanity by divinity, all who received Him might become--for this, Christ came to the world." Education,73,74. What are we to overcome by the indwelling of humanity by the divinity of Christ? All our inherited and cultivated tendencies to evil and to have the character of Christ impressed upon us until the full corn is in the ear. Mark 4:26-29. Until the Lord can accomplish this work in and through a company of people from all nations, people, and tongues, the great controversy will go on. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted June 8, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted June 8, 2012 Yes, we are to overcome evil & all our inherited evil tendencies. But is that where the REAL battle lies? When Eve was tempted, where was the real battle, was it over the fruit? When Jesus was tempted in the wilderness, was the real battle over control of His hunger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Yes, we are to overcome evil & all our inherited evil tendencies. But is that where the REAL battle lies? When Eve was tempted, where was the real battle, was it over the fruit? When Jesus was tempted in the wilderness, was the real battle over control of His hunger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibs Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 To overcome evil, Satan, and the world, 1Jo 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 1Jo 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one. Ro 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. Joh 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In th1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.e world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. 1Jo 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Much has been said about the need to be overcomers or conquerors. But just what are we to overcome? ...overcomers of self..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Amen Co-asp. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 We place too much value on ourselves. Like CoA mentioned or inferred - IT'S ALL about Him. (Not us) Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 How much value did God place on individuals through Jesus on the cross? Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Whatever righteousness we bring is as filthy rags. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 You are confusing righteousness with intrinsic redemptive value methinks. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted June 8, 2012 Administrators Share Posted June 8, 2012 Amen Co-asp. Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted June 9, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted June 9, 2012 The answers as to what we are to overcome are all good. But I believe there is a battle that underlies all of them. Eve lost the battle because she did not believe what God said. King Saul lost his throne (and life) because he did not believe what God said. The first generation of Israelites that left Egypt did not enter Canaan because they did not believe what God said. The real temptation that undergirded all that Jesus went through in the wilderness was to distrust His Father. Scripture says: Jesus was "in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin," Heb 4:15. "In every respect?" Was Jesus ever tempted to shoot heroin or snort cocaine? Not a chance. But I believe that before a sin is committed, the issue of trust/distrust of God comes into play. I think the "fight of faith" 1 Tim 6:12, is where the battle is. And the greatest sin, the sin that underlies all other sins is the sin of unbelief. Unbelief is the root/trunk, and all the other sins are just the twigs and branches. This is where Jesus was tempted "in every restpect" as we all are. What think ye? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibs Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Gerry, We certainly know Satan knew he had to overcome Him or he would be doomed. So we can know he, Satan left no stone unturned to try to bring Him down. If Satan would have known he did not have a chance he would not have tried. I really doubt that any man was tempted as hard and in as many ways. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted June 9, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted June 9, 2012 Amazing! Simply amazaing, Gibs. When the Bible says, "You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect," you interpret it to mean we are to be exactly perfect as God. Yet when the same Bible says that, "in every respect has been tempted as we are," yet you believe that His temptation was much greater!!! Amazing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Much has been said about the need to be overcomers or conquerors. But just what are we to overcome? What did Jesus, in our humanity, overcome? "The love of self". Like Christ, the last generation of Christians will "love not their lives even unto death." That's why Christ made statements such as the following: John 12:25 "He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world (i.e., our humanity indwelt with sin) will keep it to life eternal." Heb 12:4 "In your struggle against sin, you haven't resisted yet to the point of shedding blood...." Keep in mind that the shedding of blood, in Christ's mind, meant goodbye to life forever. He loved His enemies more than Himself. He was willing to say goodbye to His life so that His enemies could take His place. This is truly loving not only your neighbor, but your enemies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 ...yet you believe that His temptation was much greater!!! In Luke 23:35-39, at least three times the devil approached Christ—once through the Roman soldiers, once through the priests, and once through the thief on the left-hand side. Then, in Matt. 27:35-46, the people also added to that temptation. The temptation was the same, “Come down from the cross and save yourself.” Can you imagine what that temptation was like? We can’t. I’m glad Desire of Ages makes that clear: “The temptation that Christ experienced can never be fully understood by men.... The withdrawal of the Divine Countenance from the Savior in this hour of supreme anguish pierced His heart with a sorrow that can never be fully understood by man.” (EGW) "The prince of this world cometh," said Jesus, "and hath nothing in Me." John 14:30. There was in Him nothing that responded to Satan's sophistry. He did not consent to sin. Not even by a thought did He yield to temptation. (EGW) Jesus was tempted by the same bent to self that has plagued ever child of Adam. The temptation is always the same - love self - to heck with everyone else! Why then was Christ tempted more then we are? Don't we too have a bent to self? Yes, but unlike Christ we never faced the 2nd death. Keep in mind Christ was depending on God the Father for His resurrection. When the Father abandoned Him, the hope of resurrection was gone. Do you realize what Christ was tempted to do on the cross as He hung there? As I said, the Father had forsaken Him. But remember, He was still God. He could have taken hold of His divinity independent of the Father, against the Father’s wishes, and come down from the cross to save Himself. Can you image that temptation? None of us have been tempted like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibs Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Amazing! Simply amazaing, Gibs. When the Bible says, "You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect," you interpret it to mean we are to be exactly perfect as God. Yet when the same Bible says that, "in every respect has been tempted as we are," yet you believe that His temptation was much greater!!! Amazing! It surely does Gerry as He has given you the power to do so and shown you it could be done. We actually have an advantage as now Satan is a defeated foe by Him who will come and dwell in us. Yes ole Satan didn't miss a trick for he knew well he must if at all possible get Jesus or his ole goose was cooked, Read EGW and what she sees of this, "The Commander of heaven was assailed by the tempter. . . . From the time that He was a helpless babe in Bethlehem, when the agencies of hell sought to destroy Him in His infancy through the jealousy of Herod, until He came to Calvary's cross, He was continually assailed by the evil one. In the councils of Satan it was determined that He must be overcome. No human being had come into the world and escaped the power of the deceiver. The whole forces of the confederacy of evil were set upon His track. . . . Satan knew that he must either conquer or himself be conquered. Success or failure involved too much for him to leave the work with any one of his agents of evil. The prince of evil himself must personally conduct the warfare. . . . {AG 162.5} The life of Christ was a perpetual warfare against Satanic agencies. Satan rallied the whole energies of apostasy against the Son of God. {AG 162.6} On not one occasion was there a response to his manifold temptations. Not once did Christ step on Satan's ground, to give him any advantage. {AG 162.7} The Power to Overcome is free to all, we just need to reach out and take it and we too can be the victor over sin, the world and Satan and his angels. Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Joh 14:18 ¶ I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted. Mt 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. "Christ in You", no excuse. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 "Christ in You", no excuse! Keep in mind that the law of God (which is all encompassing) not only examines the act, but the motive behind that act. If your thoughts are tainted with one ounce of selfishness it defiles the outward act. For example, you might refrain from adultery, but Jesus said "if you lust after a woman" in the eyes of God you have committed adultery. You might have never murdered, but if you have hated a brother or sister in the eyes of God you murdered him or her. Keep in mind God's definition of love (agape) in 1 Cor 13:3 If I give all I possess to the poor ..., but have not love (agape), I gain nothing. In other words you are still controlled by the flesh. You can do the right thing outwardly, but motivationally (indwardly) you are doing it for selfish motives - i.e., to get your name in the paper...to get the praise of people, etc, etc.. So according to God agape is a love that is "not self-seeking" (verse 5). We may have flattered ourselves, as did Nicodemus, that our life has been upright, that our moral character is correct, and think that we need not humble the heart before God, like the common sinner: but when the light from Christ shines into our souls, we shall see how impure we are; we shall discern the selfishness of motive, the enmity against God, that has defiled every act of life. [sC 28] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibs Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 True enough Robert. It is also true "we have no excuse". Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 True enough Robert. It is also true "we have no excuse". Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Yes, these statements are true, why then are we failing to live Christ's life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibs Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 "Yes, these statements are true, why then are we failing to live Christ's life?" Yes Robert that is the question and only one answer for it. Is Christ truly within? None can be victorious without Him as we are nothing of ourselves to overcome. The supplicant needs go back, do the full surrender of will and his all to allow Christ to be the Master. Self and pride broken and given and the old man dead. Beginning a new life in Him and He in us. Then, - Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Quote: None can be victorious without Him as we are nothing of ourselves to overcome. And none have Him to that capacity so - let's pick up our marbles and move on. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Quote: None can be victorious without Him as we are nothing of ourselves to overcome. And none have Him to that capacity so - let's pick up our marbles and move on. Good point.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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