Just what are we to overcome?

[Gibs]

"I'm Working on a Building" and God is doing most of the work.

"For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building. 1 Corinthians 3:9. {HP 159.1}

This figure represents human character, which is to be wrought upon point by point. Each day God works on His building, stroke upon stroke, to perfect the structure, that it may become a holy temple for Him. Man is to cooperate with God, striving in His strength to make himself what God designs him to be, building his life with pure, noble deeds. {HP 159.2}

Man works and God works. Man is called upon to strain every muscle and to exercise every faculty in the struggle for immortality, but it is God who supplies the efficiency. God has made amazing sacrifices for human beings. He has expended mighty energy to reclaim man from transgression and sin to loyalty and obedience, but He does nothing without the cooperation of humanity. . . . It is by unceasing endeavor that we maintain the victory over the temptations of Satan. . . . {HP 159.3}

No one is borne upward without stern, persevering effort in his own behalf. All must engage in the warfare for themselves. Individually we are responsible for the issue of the struggle; though Noah, Daniel, and Job were in the land, they could deliver neither son nor daughter by their righteousness. . . . {HP 159.4}

Bros., Sisters, If we don't cooperate with God on that building, where are YOU going to stay?

He is your strength, stay and impervious covering all will need badly very, very soon now as it is come to the time of serious trouble.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Yes we are to be co-laborers with God but as it puts it in one of your quotes, it is God who supplies the efficiency. In another quote it is said that the Lord imparts all the powers, all the grace, all the inclination... (F.W.24) So when you think about it, even when we co-operate with Him it is because we have consented for Him to work in and through us.

Man's part (life business) is to lay right hold by faith of the merits of Christ and then man works for God works in Him both to will and to do.

Agree?

Is that your understanding?

sky

[JoeMo]

Sky,

I want to agree with you; but I still am hung up on the assertion of man's work being an "obligation" as a prerequisite to salvation. I'm not saying our works are irrelevant; but I am saying that they are the result of being saved rather than a prerequisite. By not doing the works, I may (arguably) miss out on the "reward" (something that is deserved) that He brings with Him at His coming - whatever that may be; but I don't miss out on the "gift" (something that is completely undeserved)of eternal life. Works are the fruit of our salvation, salvation is not the fruit of our works. Does that make sense? When I start thinking I have any "works" to accomplish in order to be saved (outside of having faith in His grace), it is false pride on my behalf; and it cuts me off from grace (unmerited favor). Why is that so difficult for some to understand? That is what the New Covenant says.

[skyblue888]

JoeMo, sorry I thought it was Gibs because I was expecting a reply from him.

I understand what you just posted on. I wanted Gibs to respond. So I thought it was him who had replied. Sorry.

Gibs often emphasizes the aspect of co-operating with God, that we have something to do. It is true that we have something to do and that is that "The sinner must ever look toward Calvary and with the simple faith of a little child, he must rest in the merits of Christ, accepting His righteousness, and believing in His mercy." Evangelism,315.

So, in order to become a co-worker with God we must rest in the merits of Christ. This is our first work and the last because it is our life business. (T.M.93)

"The work of God is that you believe on Him whom God sent.." To believe on Him whom God sent is to rest in the merits of His sacrifice in order to receive the blessings of the covenant of grace.

One who Believes that the merits of Christ's infinite sacrifice are SUFFICIENT to present to the Father in his behalf in order to bring His righteousness into his life, which righteousness accomplishes everything, cannot but enter into that rest which is to rest in the merits of His Redeemer. Then he can work the works of God because God is working in Him both to will and to do. This is how he is made a co-laborer with God. He works because God works in Him both to will and to do since he is resting in the merits of His Saviour.

This is what I would like Gibs to comment upon. I want to know if he agrees with that.

But you are welcome to respond.

sky :)

[Gibs]

Yes, Sky we are helpless unless we have His Divine Nature in us as we of ourselves are nothing. But never the less, we have a battle to win the prize and eternal death to shun. When we come and fall broken, OUR ALL surrendered then He will be the Winning Master in us to do of His good Will.

We then become a terror to Satan and his angels as seeing Him dwelling within they know they are sorely defeated. They know that NONE can touch one of His Own precious ones. Yes we become one of His "Jewels" when our all is given to Him.

This will take ALL of the old man we once were to be dead henceforth. We should then sing "I Surrender All" as often as it comes to our mind, a heart song.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Gibs, I have been reading your posts very closely lately. I have noticed that you put a lot of emphasis on overcoming by becoming partakers of the divine nature. You know that I agree with this as it is also my burden to emphasize this. I am sure that by now you have noticed how much emphasis Mrs. White put on the importance of appropriating to ourselves the merits of Jesus for unless we do this on a daily basis, we cannot partake of His divine nature and therefore cannot be saved.

This is what I was hoping you would weigh in on.

sky

[Samie]

Our being partakers of HIS divine nature is not because of our own choosing, brethren, as is hinted by many posts in this thread. It is because, on the cross, the Father fashioned us into the body of HIS Son. We are now part of HIS Body, and whatever nature the Son has, the body automatically partakes, being part of that glorious body. Overcoming then becomes natural, but majority refuses what is natural. It is no longer a question of INABILITY but rather REFUSAL to overcome.

The problem is, many insist on giving man portion of the credit that his being a partaker of Christ's divine nature comes because man decided to partake of that divine nature. It follows that unless man decides to become partakers of His divine nature by faith, he cannot partake of it. The credit that solely belongs to God is now split between God and man. This is not what Scriptures teach. It is not in being partakers of His divine nature that man has a part; instead, it is in overcoming!

But what is being posted mostly in this thread is the opposite: that man has no part in overcoming but he has a part in being partaker of Christ's divine nature. What is man's part? Man's FAITH in God and Christ.

That faith should have been focused on believing we are part of His Body and therefore overcoming is not an impossibility.

[Gibs]

Man can only become a partaker of His Divine Nature when the man falls broken on Him and surrenders his will, his pride, all of self, totally broken and now malleable to the Potters Hands. Humbled and teachable now and a fully willing subject only to Him whom is now the chosen Master.

Yes we must take up faith that He is able to enable us to do all things in Him, as we know of ourselves we are nothing against the evil ones and the alurements of this world placed to keep one from the WAY.

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

First The Father must draw one to Christ,

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

From beginning to end He nurtures us and has shown us the way and what He has enabled us to do.

Can we do it too? You better believe it, to not is to deny Him what He has come to do in us.

Is He going to come in by force? No, No Way.

Is His WAY hard? I would say no! He made it light for all men!

Mt 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

"The only true faith is that which embraces Him as a personal Saviour: which appropriates His merits to ourselves." D.A.347.

So where should the emphasis be, according to this statement, in order to become partakers of Christ's divine nature?

sky

[skyblue888]

Samie, we are talking about righteousness by faith as revealed to us through God's humble servant. About "The faith that lays right hold upon the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour to bring Christ's righteousness into the life." Faith & Works,65,66.

Christ's righteousness accomplishes everything. In other words, "The law of the human and the divine action makes the receiver a laborer together with God. It brings man where he can, united with divinity, work the works of God. Humanity touches humanity. Divine power and the human agency combined will be a complete success, for Christ's righteousness accomplishes everything." Faith & Works,27.

"The Lord Jesus imparts all the powers, all the grace, all the penitence, all the inclination, all the pardon of sins, in presenting His righteousness for man to grasp by living faith." F.W.24.

Thus His righteousness "is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God." T.M.92.

And what is this living faith by which we may grasp the righteousness of Christ by which the Lord imparts all the powers, all the grace, all the penitence, all the inclination, all the pardon of sins?

"That living faith is essential for our salvation that we should lay hold upon the merits of the blood of the crucified and risen Saviour, on Christ our righteousness." Ibid,64.

Again, where is the emphasis? On the merits of Christ, on the necessity of laying hold upon the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour. This is our life business. (T.M.93)

On the same page, right after stating this, we read, "The matter of salvation is just as simple as ABC. But we don't understand it."

sky

[Samie]

Gibs & Sky;

What you fail to consider is the fact that the FIRST STEP to life eternal is done by God FOR man. The surrender you speak about comes AFTER the initial step, not BEFORE. It would be an utter exercise in futility for man to surrender first ahead of God's first step done for Him.

Remember that because of sin we all are separated from God and Christ, and therefore dead in sin. Unless first made alive, we can do nothing. You seemed to have forgotten this fact. The FIRST STEP that God made FOR man is make him spiritually alive through Christ's sacrifice and resurrection. On the cross, God fashioned us into the body of His Son. Christ's death brought forth forgiveness from all sins. His resurrection gave us new birth into a living hope.

The fact that man can now do spiritual acts of repenting, believing, etc., is proof enough he had been made spiritually alive. To require man to first surrender before he can partake of Christ's divine nature, is like asking the unconscious to go to the doctor first so he could be resuscitated.

Yes, salvation is as easy as ABC, but oh, many insist on making it not only difficult but entirely impossible by requiring the dead to go to the Life-giver.

[Gibs]

No, No, Samie, neither I nor Sky miss the fact that He first draws us. To keep it short here, just one verse all must know.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

We are "quickened" if we will heed His Calling. (made alive)

We look to Him from beginning to end, He in us is our only hope of salvation. I just came across this from EGW and things like this is her theme of admonition through all her writings and is her thrust.

"We ascend to heaven by climbing the ladder—the whole height of Christ’s work—step by step. There must be a holding fast to Christ, a climbing up by the merits of Christ. To let go is to cease to climb, to fall, to perish. . . . {CTr 88.4}

The question with men and women gazing heavenward is How can I obtain the mansions for the blessed? It is by being a partaker of the divine nature. It is by escaping the “corruption that is in the world through lust.” It is by entering into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, laying hold of the hope set before you in the gospel. . . . It is by being in Christ and yet led by Christ, by believing and working—trusting in Jesus, yet working upon the plan of addition, holding on to Christ and constantly mounting upward toward God. . . . {CTr 88.5}

We point you to the mansions Christ is preparing for all those who love Him. We point you to that city that hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. . . . Climb step by step, and you will reach God above the ladder and the Holy City of God. None who will resolutely mount up on the ladder will fail of everlasting life. “For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.”Manuscript 13, 1884 (Manuscript Releases, vol. 19, pp. 353-355). {CTr 88.6}

He who sets on his "lees" and has the presumption there is nothing he needs to do to win salvation, will wake up and find himself in the second resurrection. If Christ was going to forgive all sin without a change of heart into a new man He would need not have come and died. He would have just taken sin and sinners into Heaven

Bros. and Sisters, it will not be. God who is Love must do Love's strange act. The Lake of Fire will comsume both. Sin and sinners WILL NOT be in the Heavenly Kingdom

Do His Will in this day of salvation of which is about the end of that day, for all. Our day is usually our lifetime, but it now is so close that that many will not have a lifetime. His Will is the Way He Has Made that All may be Saved!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[JoeMo]

Samie,

Good post!

Without God's Spirit awakening our dead souls, we could not even muster the faith to consider surrendering to Him. The Holy Spirit must first awaken that spark of faith and hope in us before we even consider the possibility of leaning on the merits of Christ and His grace. Verily, God does it all. Our only part is going along with God's flow. Even then, He gives us the strength, faith and motivation to jump into that River of Life and follow it to the Kingdom. Ain't God awesome?!

[Gibs]

Hey, JoeMoe,

First though He gives us strength, faith motivation to find and get through that strait scraping off gate onto that narrow upward path we must travel in this life that will get us into Gloryland where that wonderful river forever will run.

You speak of God's flow, that is the flow of the few that find that narrow way you know,

Mt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

"strait"

4728. stenos

Search for G4728 in KJVSL

stenoV stenos sten-os'

probably from the base of 2476; narrow (from obstacles standing close about):--strait.

See Greek 2476

We don't get through that "strait" gate with the baggage of the world, there is obstacles to tear them away.

We have a part to act in this work. Let none think that men and women are going to be taken to heaven without engaging in the struggle here below. We have a battle to fight, a victory to gain. God says to us, "Work out your own salvation." How? "With fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:12, 13). God works, and man works.... Thus only can we be partakers of the divine nature.

Here is the consistency of true religion. We are to be "labourers together with God," working in harmony with Him. "Ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building" (1 Corinthians 3:9). This figure represents human character, which is to be wrought upon point by point. Each day God works on His building to perfect the structure, that it may become a holy temple for Him. Man is to cooperate with God, striving in His strength to make himself what God designs him to be, building his life with pure, noble deeds...

We should sing "I'm working on a Building" as we must be with Him in it that is for a surity. Building our character!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world

[skyblue888]

I have, many a time, posted about the fact that we cannot even have a thought without Christ (F.W.73), that we cannot repent of ourselves, etc etc that we are not to feel that we must proved to the Lord that we are reformed before we may claim His blessing, etc etc

"Without Me we can do nothing."

And this is true not only spiritually but physically as well for "In Him we live and move and have our being."

I could not have have typed these words without His power for "All created beings live by the will and power of God. They are recipients of the life of the Son of God." 1 S.M.301.

This is speaking of our physical nature, of course.

sky :)

[Samie]

No, No, Samie, neither I nor Sky miss the fact that He first draws us. To keep it short here, just one verse all must know.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

We are "quickened" if we will heed His Calling. (made alive)

...

Gibs, your last sentence gave you away. How can you be able to "HEED" unless you are first "QUICKENED"? You & Sky want people to first "HEED" so they can be "QUICKENED". "QUICKENING" must come before "HEEDING"! Could you still not realize the error in what you say, brother?

You see, the verse you quoted tells us it is God Who made the initial step. He drew us all to Christ, by fashioning us into the body of His Son (Eph 2:11-19).

[Gibs]

Samie, I have posted this in more than one here on these like discussions,

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

He draws and most do not heed, He beckons and pleads but most refuse to be quickened by allowing His Spirit to come in.

Hoss He leads to water but He don't force him to drink. Yes Yahweh could make him drink but that isn't His way. Now we can lead that hoss to the water but we can't make him drink. All we can do is present it to him.

None have any excuse, he draws all but God does not force against ones will. If we will not give our will we will not be His. We have chosen then the other master, the master of rebellion, the destroyer.

He draws and quickens, makes alive those who WILL, but those who will not remain dead.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Samie]

Samie, I have posted this in more than one here on these like discussions,

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

He draws and most do not heed, He beckons and pleads but most refuse to be quickened by allowing His Spirit to come in.

Hoss He leads to water but He don't force him to drink. Yes Yahweh could make him drink but that isn't His way. Now we can lead that hoss to the water but we can't make him drink. All we can do is present it to him.

None have any excuse, he draws all but God does not force against ones will. If we will not give our will we will not be His. We have chosen then the other master, the master of rebellion, the destroyer.

He draws and quickens, makes alive those who WILL, but those who will not remain dead.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Gibs,

You simply refuse to address the issue on how the dead could possibly "HEED" the call. Could the "UNCONSCIOUS" possibly go to the Doctor so he can be resuscitated? No! And, in sin, we are not only unconscious: We are DEAD!!!

What I am telling you brother, is the fact that God "QUICKENED" us first, before issuing the call that we must "HEED". We are now able to "HEED" His call that we must be overcomers because He had already "QUICKENED" us when on the cross He fashioned us into the body of His Son. God's fashioning us did not require our consent. He did it because of LOVE, MERCY & GRACE. This is in the first dimension of the gospel.

But in overcoming, He NEEDS our consent. He ENABLED us to become overcomers, YES. But whether we CHOOSE to or REFUSE to overcome is entirely dependent on our decision. This is in the 2nd dimension of the gospel.

Only overcomers will, in the 3rd dimension, be rewarded with life eternal; all others will be rewarded with God's wrath and ultimately the lake of fire. This is why the Savior Himself emphatically said that when He comes again, all will be rewarded according to what each has done.

[Gibs]

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Then a man will choose to be moved or will choose to not to, man is given a free will to to or not to do.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.