Is dancing wrong?

[Bob Sands]

YOU MIGHT BE AN SDA IF...

· The first thing you do when you are introduced to a woman is to look at her ears

· You went to a boarding academy that had two sidewalks: one for girls and one for boys (and the two never intersect)

· You have sex with your spouse, but you don’t dance with him or her

· You got your sex education from Mom handing you a book by Harold Shyrock, MD.

· You feel mildly guilty reading the Song of Solomon

· You or someone you know has ever been "on social"

· You have heard that SDA girls don’t drink, don’t smoke, don’t dance, but sure know how to kiss

· You ever wondered if the earth will last long enough for you to get a boy/girl friend

· You won’t watch a movie until it comes out on video

· You went to banquets instead of dances in high school

· You know who is engaged by asking for the time

· You look at someone’s hands, see no ring, and still wonder if they are married or not

· You see a watch on somebody’s right arm, and you wonder whether they are engaged, or just left-handed

· Your first date was to a vespers

· You know how to play poker with Bible author cards and wheat thins

· You have ever looked for angels outside a movie theater

[Dr. Shane]

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Shane's arguments about strip clubs are as valid as saying "children should not have beds because adults have sex in beds".

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You did not follow my arguement.

Brother Sands implied that there is no problem going into a dance club that serves alcohol if you don't drink or drink moderately. After all, you are not there for the alcohol but for the dancing.

Following that same logic I can justify going to a strip club to watch a football game. Afterall I am not there to see naked girls. I am just there to watch football.

Yes it is an extreame example but shows the folly in such logic.

[Neil D]

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What about celebrating a daughter's wedding, the Father, daughter dance as he says good bye as he marries her off. What about that happy celebration? A little foreign to SDAs granted, but I went to a wedding where it truly was a celebration.

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I see absolutely NO problem with that...In fact, it was a cool celebration that I went to, and there was beer and alcohol and yeah, some people prolly drunk, but it was civil and nothing disorderly and it was a neat experience. There was this "Adventist" table, and we did not have any drinks. But we did partake in the dancing and we all had some fun...

But for some here, it's not appropriate for them....Past expeiences and such have made it a bad thing for them...That's not the case for me, and I would make a big fuss if someone were to insist that dancing is wrong for all people ....I am sorry, folks, but dancers are NOT going to hell in a handbasket for dancing...

[Gerr]

Let me ask you from my personal experience. When I have a soft beautiful girl in my arms, inhaling her exotic perfume, her breasts pressed against mine, guess how close my thoughts are of God? Therefore I don't dance except with my wife, at home! But if you're dancing 5 ft apart just doing calisthenics, now, that might be a good workout.

Gerry

[Bob Sands]

Some suggest that is when you feel closest to heaven. With the right gal, like your wife, that's kind of special.

[Dr. Shane]

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When I have a soft beautiful girl in my arms, inhaling her exotic perfume, her breasts pressed against mine, guess how close my thoughts are of God?

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Be careful. With descriptions like that you may get accused of writing pornography. How would you like it if other men were pressed up against your new bride, smelling her prefume?

There are many in the church that are willing to compromise with the world. The represent one extreame. There are others that will not even kiss their spouse in public or show any sign of affection. They are on the other extreame. I happen to believe there is a comfortable middle ground.

The vast majority of dancing in the world today is wrong. If you want to rationalize it you can. But I will not call good what the Lord has called bad. Unmarried people should not be embracing each other and dancing to worldly music. Dancing such as ballot or traditional ethnic dances are done as an art and do not arouse sexual passions or involve alcohol. There are also many aerobic classes that use dance in a noncontact way. There certainly is no problem with married couples dancing with each other provided the music is uplifting and no alcohol is involved.

[Anthony!]

[:"red"] Gerry: [/]

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Let me ask you from my personal experience. When I have a soft beautiful girl in my arms, inhaling her exotic perfume, her breasts pressed against mine, guess how close my thoughts are of God? Therefore I don't dance except with my wife, at home! But if you're dancing 5 ft apart just doing calisthenics, now, that might be a good workout.

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Well, er... ah... maybe it's just a matter of perspective. I don't think it is a sin to be sexually aroused... it's what you do with it when you're there.

Stating my teenage public school experiences, dancing close with a girl sure can do that to a guy! However, many times it is an emotional and spiritual experience to have such an appreciated creature of beauty so close... feelings of loneliness vanish, and acceptance prevails.

Hard for you to believe? Well then, I must not have been like other boys, just as I am not like other men.

But then, I remember in 1982 it was very easy to jaw-drop watching the women aerobicize at the YMCA!

Vive le difference!

[Bob Sands]

Thank you Shane for the clarification on the standards as you see them. From your discription of a lap-dance, we know you speak from experience.

[bevin]

Gerry wrote...

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Let me ask you from my personal experience. When I have a soft beautiful girl in my arms, inhaling her exotic perfume, [:"red"]her breasts pressed against mine[/],

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The things you learn about people on CA!

/Bevin

[Dr. Shane]

Brother Sands, I would say that comment was uncalled for and malicious. While in college I went to strip clubs with my friends for a bachelor party and we got the groom-to-be a lap dance. While in the Army I went to strip bars with fellow soldiers and many of them would pay for lap dances once they got a few beers in them.

My loving Savior has forgiven me for such sins. I invite you to know Him. His name is Jesus Christ and He loves you very much.

[Gerr]

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Gerry wrote...

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Let me ask you from my personal experience. When I have a soft beautiful girl in my arms, inhaling her exotic perfume, [:"red"]her breasts pressed against mine[/],

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The things you learn about people on CA!

/Bevin

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[:"blue"]That was the kind of dance I learned, Bevin. [/]

Gerry

[Gerr]

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[:"red"] Gerry: [/]

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Let me ask you from my personal experience. When I have a soft beautiful girl in my arms, inhaling her exotic perfume, her breasts pressed against mine, guess how close my thoughts are of God? Therefore I don't dance except with my wife, at home! But if you're dancing 5 ft apart just doing calisthenics, now, that might be a good workout.

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Well, er... ah... maybe it's just a matter of perspective. I don't think it is a sin to be sexually aroused... it's what you do with it when you're there.

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[:"blue"]"You have heard that it was said of old, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Mt 5:27,28 NKJ. [/]

Gerry

[Bob Sands]

Hey Gerry, you don't have to get on the dance floor for that one, it can happen on the sidewalk when you are driving by.

[Neil D]

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[:"red"] Gerry: [/]

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Let me ask you from my personal experience. When I have a soft beautiful girl in my arms, inhaling her exotic perfume, her breasts pressed against mine, guess how close my thoughts are of God? Therefore I don't dance except with my wife, at home! But if you're dancing 5 ft apart just doing calisthenics, now, that might be a good workout.

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Well, er... ah... maybe it's just a matter of perspective. I don't think it is a sin to be sexually aroused... it's what you do with it when you're there.

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[:"blue"]"You have heard that it was said of old, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Mt 5:27,28 NKJ. [/]

Gerry

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First off, Gerry, unless both of you have very thin clothing, I don't think a man can feel the breasts with his chest. However, it is rather intoxicating to have a willing lady in your arms dancing with you. And THAT is how I am going to take your meaning of your sentence, Gerry.

Second, it occurs to me that being sexually aroused is different than being in lust. With there being varying degrees of arousal, lust is protrayed as the extreem arousal with the intent of committing adultery in the mind.

Third, while there is dance that causes sexual arousal, MOST principle loving people, [and there are more than just adventist] understand this and avoid it. Granted, there are a lot of strip clubs and bars that allow suggestive dancing, but how many here currently have personal experiences on each of those areas? If you do not have current experience [ie less than 2 years], you are relating to the rest of us from your past experiences, which may not be current.

Why is it that when traditional dance [ie the round dance, square dance] is concidered as an ok activity within the SDA church, the first arguement is " why should dance be concidered since it is the cause of sexual promiscuity"?. This type of mentality clearly shows that Adventists are people not to be trusted to do the right thing. That we are giving oppertunity for sexual promiscuity. That we need to control our own people because they will wander at the first impulse...This is just clearly not true.

Finally, What good is dance? Traditional Dancing is an artform of movement. It is very kinistethic [sp] to which over 50% of SDA women have a desire to learn. Dance is way to share with each gender, especially the young people how to behave toward each other in ways of respect. It is a way to broaden each gender's awareness and understanding of the other.

Dancing is just good exercise. You can litterally move over 5 miles in one evening. I know a few diabetics who could use that type of exercise.

Please understand, I am talking about traditional dances. I am not talking about strip clubs, lap dances and the like that clearly is an issue of immaturity, from the experiences that are written up here.

[Bob Sands]

Your post confirms the experience, and I am glad that you have moved on and received forgiveness. However, I would dare say, your "sin" was greater than Christine John's who got married within two months. I wonder who would be the better example to teach kids, HUH?

Why is it that SDAs assume whoever they are talking to doesn't know Jesus like they do, sort of a little Phariseeical wouldn't you say, " God, thank you I am not like all those others!!!!". Speak about malicious!!!!!

You may feel that my remark did not produce comity between us but certainly no maliciousness was meant, "just the facts ma'am. "

[Nicodema]

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Dancing arrouses sexual passion. If this isn't your experience you either have some medical or phychological problem or don't know how to dance.

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Our friend Shane has a proclivity for making blanket co-opt statements such as this which attempt to preclude the existence of any differing point of view. However, he is completely mistaken in the above, because (a) not ALL forms of dancing arouse sexual passion (David danced before the Lord in celebration when the Ark was returned; I do not believe that form of dance was sexually arousing); and ( it is absolutely 100% possible to recognize this fact WITHOUT having a medical or psychological problem or being unable to dance -- one has only to crack a Bible to do so.

Shane, you really should restrain yourself from this tendency to attempt to force your viewpoint by making preclusive and prohibitive statements while sharing it. If your point of view is valid it can stand on its own merits. If it is not valid, all the preclusive, co-opting, prohibitive statements in the world will NOT succeed in shoring it up. In this case, it falls flat. You have failed to take into consideration the fact that although SOME forms of dance are sexually arousing, NOT all forms are. You have generalized about ALL forms of dancing from the fact that SOME forms are sexually arousing, and this is a mistake.

Now to the general question : "is dancing wrong?" I think the question itself is too broad, and should be narrowed down to specify what is meant by dancing. Square dancing? Line dancing? Couples slow-dancing? Wild dancing at a disco or night club? Mosh pitting? Swaying and clapping to praise music in church or at a Christian "coffeehouse" night? Jumping around to music in the privacy of one's living room as a form of exercise? You see there are many types of dancing and not all of them are part of "the mating ritual" so to speak. So before the question can be answered, I believe the question itself must be more clearly defined. IF we are talking ONLY about those forms of dance that ARE sexually arousing, that would obviously point to a different kind of answer than if we are talking about ALL dancing in broad generalities, or about dancing that is not sexually arousing. The question of "playing with fire," so to speak, is a much different question from the question of jumping around one's living room as part of enjoying music.

Then of course, there is the question of why do we bother asking these questions to begin with? What are we looking for, really, when we discuss things of this nature? I'm never really clear on that. These kinds of topics themselves seem to be some form of bizarre human social ritual in and of themselves -- like a parade of peacocks so everyone can examine everyone else's "feathers" and see who is like oneself and who is unlike oneself. Rather xenophobic if you ask me.

[Amelia]

*Tacking On*

Ok clubbies, back to the topic. Lets keep it clean and cordial. Thank you.

[Nan]

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These kinds of topics themselves seem to be some form of bizarre human social ritual in and of themselves -- like a parade of peacocks so everyone can examine everyone else's "feathers" and see who is like oneself and who is unlike oneself. Rather xenophobic if you ask me.

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Sorry Amelia this is still off topic, but Nico's imagery has really tickled my fancy. I cannot or get up and dance because it is the middle of the night and it would wake Sammy and my son.....but I am doing a lot of chuckling under my breath. At the same time as considering the point Nico is making. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/129933-offtopic2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mittelgr124.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/129933-offtopic2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/coolhello.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mittelgr124.gif" alt="" />

[Dr. Shane]

Sister Nico, It seems you have completely taken my comment out of context. If you reread my posts in this thread I think you will conclude that I agree with 90% of your response to my comment.

One thing that I may not have made clear (but is very obvious) is that I speak from a male prespective. I have no idea if any kind of dancing is sexually arousing for women.

[Clio]

Nico -

I'm in complete agreement with all you have posted here... but most of all... why was this question even raised?

Is there any way in which asking the question "Is dancing wrong?" magnifies Jesus in us? Does it cause us to see Him more clearly? From the varied responses, I'd say the answer is No.

Instead it clouds our eyes with triviality and we can no longer see Him clearly.

I don't always manage to keep Jesus central to all I do, say, write, or think, but I do try. And debates such as these seem to move my eyes from Jesus as their central focus, to trying to convince someone else why my particular opinion is right, just as engaging in that discussion takes someone else's focus and causes them to try and persuade me my opinion on this is wrong...

We are not called to be cookie cutter creations. Jesus created us each with the blessing of diversity and the ability to have a relationship with Him that is intense to the nth degree. Why must my relationship with Jesus be exactly like anyone elses?

I have danced in praise when I could contain the emotion in no other way. I long to learn to dance in Heaven, for I am truly a klutz on this earth...

Clio

[Nicodema]

Clio, I agree with you, and I think your perspective is a healthy one.

[Parade Orange]

Shane says that dancing leads to sexual arousel{blushes a bit). Cause he is a man and cant speak for woman.=my words

Well I am all man and danced the night away at all kinds of

bars and clubs all over northern California and maybe once in Nevada.

Well that must be his experience. Once you hear the pulsating beat and the toe starts a tapping and then the the synthisizer starts in then the hips start moving then you hear Donna Summer wailing from somewhere then the hands go up in the air(like u just dont care). Then the trumpets start and someone hands you a baton and you start twirling it and twirling it. You throw it up in the air and spin three times and just barly catches it! Then you dance all around the bar and start your own conga line then the music breaks and the MACAREENA starts!!! You dont even stop to refill your virgin mary. Cause now we are onto a Madonna remix featering 20 years of high energy dancing!!!!.... whew!

Are we still aroused?

[Parade Orange]

Thats my male perspective and i wont answer that question posted above

[Parade Orange]

Is dancing wrong?

My friends used to go out to just dance. Thats it, just some voguing or whatever. We dressed up to Dance. A pink midrift and some acid washed jeans with high tops. Or maybe just a pair of white jean cutoffs(too short) and black boots(nothing else) Just good clean fun. Just to dance and drink and smoke and maybe a little coke or crank. Then dance some more.No sex- just good clean fun. All night. Danced like Twila. Danced like a Paula. Danced like a SheDiva with giant Japanese fans that twirled to the rhythem!. Dance Dance Dance! Then someone walks in and the music becomes mute and everything is slow motion. Its like tunnel vision. All u see is him from across the room....

I wish it was all good clean fun

but I have to stay away from places like those.

I threw out all my Dance Music. I had all kinds!

Abba,Petshop Boys,Madonna,Donna Summer,KLF,Black Box,Kylie Minogue and The Weather Girls(its raining Men!)

Trance music,Ambiant,Tribal,Deep House,High Energy,Freestyle,HipHop and my personal fav -EuroDance!

God told me to throw out all my idols.

I did it cause God gave me strength and desire.

That was a prayer answered!

[Bob Sands]

Hey Guys, look at all the discussion started by someone half a world apart in Madrid, Spain. Got-a-be a whole 'nother set of values over there, right doctortechie?