Could you opine about www.adventistalternative.org?

[phkrause]

not that awfully impressed with the website. almost like the GC should stop whatever that are doing and listen to him.

People leaving the Church in droves? Really? There is on the average 200,000 people a year leaving for various reasons, there are about 1,000,000 joining a year, according to an article in the Salt Lake City Triubune a few years ago, my the Mormons, we have the highest average retention of all Churches and 80% average over 5 years.

I quite frankly get tired of theologians or their clones, who say "Everyone pay attention to me" I will pay attention to those who are winning souls to Christ and not viewing their mission as retreating on where we have learned in the past.

[CoAspen]

Quote:

I am a person who can think for himself and am on the review board of a SDA institution.

Walk the talk, review board of what SDA institution?

Please no disclaimers about 'you can't tell', just be open and honest. If you have nothing to hide, lets here it!!

We have a number of naysayers of the church through out this forum who sole purpose seems to b e criticism of the .org or to push their own version of the real 'truth'. So, here is your chance to set your self apart from such!

[phkrause]

Quote:

I am a person who can think for himself and am on the review board of a SDA institution.

Walk the talk, review board of what SDA institution?

Please no disclaimers about 'you can't tell', just be open and honest. If you have nothing to hide, lets here it!!

We have a number of naysayers of the church through out this forum who sole purpose seems to b e criticism of the .org or to push their own version of the real 'truth'. So, here is your chance to set your self apart from such!

[skyblue888]

Sky:

The best way to go about this is to listen to an 8 minute or so spoken intro. The idea is that the SDA church ought to be tolerent to members who have changed their minds on some of the doctrines. Could they still be members IF they do not believe ALL the requirements of the Baptismal certificate? The author believes many who left the church through the years could be motivated to come back and the critics will be robbed of fodder to use against the church. Very good, VERIFIABLE statistics, excellent presentation on topics such as Godhead, Comforter, Salvation, Judgment, and a unique take on "no one goes to heaven" and the Millennium, which is right now under review in some circles. Also a stunning observation on John 10:22,23. Dr. Barkhuizen is obviously not a Fordite and speaks AS an SDA! Same author wrote The Fourth Dilemma, which was a best-seller for Review&Herald in 2009. This can be downloaded, I believe, from the site. Shalom!

I recognize the face. I did listen to some of it one day and if I remember correctly he questions the doctrine of the Investigative Judgment, doesn't he? What about the Godhead and the millenium? Could you in a few words tell us what is his stand on these?

Thank you.

sky

[Umfundize]

SKY:

Let your fingers do the walking and visit www.adventistalternative.org The only beef our Board has with the GC, is that they apparently refuse to answer any requests for their opinion on the Manuscript. It seems like they WANT members to visit the site.

Simply download Adventist Alternative. It is easy reading and seems to come from a sincere heart. Tell me what you like and dislike. We are also looking at The Fourth Dilemma, where the Sabbath is presented as CREATION decree outside ANY law, and a second look is taken at the Wednesday crucifixion. In Adventist Alternative, the exegesis of John 14:1-3 is absolutely astounding. Praise the Lord, He provides some trusted guides to explain the Word. I have discovered that the Bible is one of the most confusing and difficult books any human can try to understand! It offers no systematic theology and that's why all churches can use the SAME Bible to "prove" what they believe! And then The Clear Word Bible offers a MIXTURE of the Bible PLUS EGW! Amazing.

[Overaged]

Yes membership in a structure of men where so much error is being taught and forced home to the soul is worthless as unless the Presence of the High and Holy One is there you do not have Church.

Jesus had a membership in a church where they were so vicious that they ended up killing Him. If any church ever taught "error;" it was the Church that Jesus personally attended. The Scriptures say "as was His custom" He went to church on Sabbath. There is no reason to suppose that we should do any different than our Savior. Following His example is what it's all about. It is impossible to "overcome" unless we do.

[Samie]

I meant to write: The sixth plague is the wicked turning on each other followed by the hail and the great earthquake, the translation of the 144,00, the special and general resurrections, and the coming of Christ in the clouds of Heaven.

Not to derail this thread, but I just want to point out it is easy to show from Scriptures the 7 last plagues are post-advent rather than pre-advent. And there is no special general resurrection in Scriptures. The resurrection in Dan 12:1,2 is the same resurrection referred to in John 5:28, 29 and will occur when Christ returns as these verses themselves indicate.

[Gibs]

Originally Posted By: Gibs

Yes membership in a structure of men where so much error is being taught and forced home to the soul is worthless as unless the Presence of the High and Holy One is there you do not have Church.

Jesus had a membership in a church where they were so vicious that they ended up killing Him. If any church ever taught "error;" it was the Church that Jesus personally attended. The Scriptures say "as was His custom" He went to church on Sabbath. There is no reason to suppose that we should do any different than our Savior. Following His example is what it's all about. It is impossible to "overcome" unless we do.

I'm not so sure of that OV, as to be a member would be to be a go alongwe and party of. I will not be a member where the truth is not the theme. I am one who had my membership removed. If having ones name on a worldly church book would save, then I would have it there.

The important place is the Lambs Book of Life and not blotted out

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Overaged]

[

I'm not so sure of that OV, as to be a member would be to be a go alongwe and party of. I will not be a member where the truth is not the theme. I am one who had my membership removed. If having ones name on a worldly church book would save, then I would have it there.

[Gibs]

Just because He went in to teach them the truth as I used to do until I was cast out and He was too don't mean He was a supporting member of it. Far from it, eventually they crucified Him. And eventually they will want to crucify me if Jesus allows it.

Teach the Truth OV of the True Gospel and Salvation that actually saves from sin and see how popular you become. Jesus won't cast you out but the church structure of men will!

The Truth has been compromised on these two for so long that few know the Truth of them.

A good quote read of EGW,

"But while God can be just, and yet justify the sinner through the merits of Christ, no man can cover his soul with the garments of Christ's righteousness while practicing known sins or neglecting known duties. God requires the entire surrender of the heart, before justification can take place; and in order for man to retain justification, there must be continual obedience, through active, living faith that works by love and purifies the soul. {FW 100.1}

James writes of Abraham and says, "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only" (James 2:21-24). In order for man to be justified by faith, faith must reach a point where it will control the affections and impulses of the heart; and it is by obedience that faith itself is made perfect."

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Gibs, is it part of your message to call people out of the adventist church, out of Babyon the great?

I know that there are some who have already made that their message but they are wrong because Babylon the Great will not be fallen until her sins have reached unto heaven and that won't happen until the law of God is made void in the land by the enactment of the Sunday law through the union of church and state. This is what the SoP says in no uncertain terms. You should be acquainted with those statements. I have quoted them before in the series of the order of last day events.

sky

[Gibs]

Sky, the SDA church structure is in deep apostasy without doubt. It's up to each whether he sees to come out of it. She is close to falling back all the way from where she came out of and became the furthest in reform movement of them all.

Well no doubt the things she has fallen back into are seen in heaven and with the light she has received it is a grave situation I do believe. Will she buckle on the Sabbath, we will see in a few years or less it appears, when if if she does will you have any doubt?

I will not go and stay where error is being taught and forced home to the soul so I have removed my name and self from her. No I don't call her Babylon but I can't uphold her any more.

She has taken several steps to be in union with church and state, emerging church is deeper than seen as most has a lid kept on it.

The Remnant Church is where He is in the midst of the faithful few. There is that FEW again. That strait gate and narrow way FEW find He tells us.

Matters not of my name being on any of men's church structures, His book of life and not blotted out there is the prized place.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[skyblue888]

Jesus did not uphold the Sanhedrin either but we do not find Him asking for His name to be removed from church membership or calling people to separate from the church. Even the apostles at Pentecost did not call people to come out of the Jewish church eventhough the leading men had put the Messiah to death. The call to come out did not come until the church had sealed her rejection of God's mercy and that came at the stoning of the Stephen.

The church today has not yet sealed her rejection of God's mercy. The message to the Laodicean church must again be proclaimed in latter rain power as it was in 1888. If that message is resisted again and the bearers of the message character assassinated, then the time will come when probation will close on the church and the bearers of the message will turn to the world and it will swell into the loud cry.

sky

[Overaged]

Jesus did not uphold the Sanhedrin either but we do not find Him asking for His name to be removed from church membership or calling people to separate from the church. Even the apostles at Pentecost did not call people to come out of the Jewish church eventhough the leading men had put the Messiah to death. The call to come out did not come until the church had sealed her rejection of God's mercy and that came at the stoning of the Stephen.

The church today has not yet sealed her rejection of God's mercy. The message to the Laodicean church must again be proclaimed in latter rain power as it was in 1888. If that message is resisted again and the bearers of the message character assassinated, then the time will come when probation will close on the church and the bearers of the message will turn to the world and it will swell into the loud cry.

sky

[Umfundize]

Overaged:

The problem is that NO ONE can take the BIBLE and defend the Investigative Judgment! The SDA church is the ONLY church on earth who believe in this doctrine of investigating saved sinners' WORKS! It is NOT Biblical and many of the LEADERS would love to do away with it. However, then they have to drop EGW who CONFIRMED this schemed out doctrine of Crosier et al.

You simply CANNOT refute the positions Dr Barkhuizen advanced without the help of our sister.

If you can, please share your insights. The truth is that most SDA doctrines come from the Bible PLUS Ellen White. What some scholars are doing is to see what the BIBLE ALONE has to say! The Clear Word Bible is a classic example of how SDA's MIX the Bible with the writings of EGW. THIS has caused mainline Christianity to label SDA as Cult of the YEAR!

SDA doctrines CANNOT stand on the WORD ALONE! Have you ACTUALLY read what Dr Barky had to say about John 10:22,23? Do you know, right now, what the Feast of Dedication is? If not, then you may want to ACTUALLY read Adventist Alternative...and be helped, like I was.

[Gibs]

Back first to Sky, what makes you think any in that day had names on a church list. It isn't needed now and never was. Names on a church list here on this earth is meaningless, worthless. Do you think it will or has saved anyone. I would say Jesus evangelized every where He could but He and the Apostles Home Churched, read through Acts and the outreach was from it.

Umfundize, To SDA's that know and understand it, unto 2300 days and the Sanctuary cleansed is no problem. What on earth do you think the cleansing of it was anyway? It is about the Heavenly, did it it get full of dirt or something? No of course not.

No it was the pending cases of all who had died from Adam on so I don't see any problem except for ones who don't want to see.

Da 8:13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

Da 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

"that certain saint" is Jesus Christ, Palmoni, Wonderful Numberer. And He answered their question and added "then shall the Sanctuary be cleansed". Since He would be the High Priest who would do it, I reckon you got it from "the horses mouth".

People need to read and understand more instead of having some who have no understanding tell it and believe a lie.

I tell you now, this pillar of truth will never fall or fail. Jesus Christ is the Author and the Operator of it.

What is happening is a further dip into emerging church, it isn't any good, drop it like burning coal in your hand.

True SDAdventism has died of the truth of most of what they were superior of in reformation. She'll have to come out of it and very, very quickly or she will be spewed out of His mouth. Is there a shadow of turning back to the true way? Show me where if you see a bit even.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Gibs]

Note! I didn't put the jumping critter in my post above, it replaced my word "little"

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Stan]

No, the problem is...

What happens if you want to speak and teach, and no one is interested?

[Gibs]

Gee Stan,

Makes me wonder if we aren't in this time,

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Well I still would admonish speak and teach the truth and if they all run out go on down the road and try another place.

To preach "smooth" things to please the worldly wouldn't please the Lord God as to what should be preached and as I would want to, so it would be best to please God and find maybe just one that had ears to hear and eyes to see and quickened to understand.

We need men who will read the truth, practice the truth, and explain the truth.

Brethren, Christ calls you. Will you heed His voice? Will you become His messengers? Will you seek the sheep that are lost? Will you teach the Word in all humility and earnestness to those who will hear? {UL 91.7}

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Naomi]

Unfundize, what is your purpose in coming to this forum?

[Overaged]

Overaged:

The problem is that NO ONE can take the BIBLE and defend the Investigative Judgment!

THIS has caused mainline Christianity to label SDA as Cult of the YEAR!

SDA doctrines CANNOT stand on the WORD ALONE!

Have you ACTUALLY read what Dr Barky had to say about John 10:22,23? Do you know, right now, what the Feast of Dedication is? If not, then you may want to ACTUALLY read Adventist Alternative...and be helped, like I was.

[Overaged]

Unfundize, what is your purpose in coming to this forum?

I think that is pretty evident, but the next few posts will tell the story, I am sure.

[Overaged]

Gee Stan,

Makes me wonder if we aren't in this time,

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Brethren, Christ calls you. Will you heed His voice? Will you become His messengers? Will you seek the sheep that are lost? Will you teach the Word in all humility and earnestness to those who will hear? {UL 91.7}

Seeking the lost" is not a "ministry" of tearing down a specific group you have doctrinal differences with. If that's what it is to you; then maybe you should re-examine who here really has those "itching ears" mentioned in scripture?

[Lysimachus]

Overaged:

The problem is that NO ONE can take the BIBLE and defend the Investigative Judgment! The SDA church is the ONLY church on earth who believe in this doctrine of investigating saved sinners' WORKS! It is NOT Biblical and many of the LEADERS would love to do away with it. However, then they have to drop EGW who CONFIRMED this schemed out doctrine of Crosier et al.

You simply CANNOT refute the positions Dr Barkhuizen advanced without the help of our sister.

If you can, please share your insights. The truth is that most SDA doctrines come from the Bible PLUS Ellen White. What some scholars are doing is to see what the BIBLE ALONE has to say! The Clear Word Bible is a classic example of how SDA's MIX the Bible with the writings of EGW. THIS has caused mainline Christianity to label SDA as Cult of the YEAR!

SDA doctrines CANNOT stand on the WORD ALONE! Have you ACTUALLY read what Dr Barky had to say about John 10:22,23? Do you know, right now, what the Feast of Dedication is? If not, then you may want to ACTUALLY read Adventist Alternative...and be helped, like I was.

So outdated. The Investigative Judgment is easier to defend now than it ever has. Get a hold of Mr. Heidi Heik's book, "The 'Daily' Source Book", and Bradley R. Williams', "The Silencing of Satan". These books prove from scripture alone the Investigative Judgment and the termination of the 2300 days in 1844.

It doesn't matter how one cuts it, slices it, or dices it, the 2300 evening-mornings terminate in 1844. No matter how much you may try manipulate the math, it always ends up terminating on that date.

Don't like the IJ doctrine of 1844? Deal with the fact that the 2300 days ends on October 22, 1844, and now provide us an alternative. The only "figment" alternative in your mind can exist if you reject the fact that the 2300 days do not end in 1844.

No matter how much one dislikes the IJ doctrine, the 2300 days ending in 1844 is NOT going to go away.

It will HAUNT the critics to their grave.

[skyblue888]

Back first to Sky, what makes you think any in that day had names on a church list. It isn't needed now and never was. Names on a church list here on this earth is meaningless, worthless. Do you think it will or has saved anyone. I would say Jesus evangelized every where He could but He and the Apostles Home Churched, read through Acts and the outreach was from it.

Gibs

___________

Gibs, you know that every Jew had his name entered in the register after birth.

I assume that everybody here knows that having one's name registered on the church books does not save anyone. Never has, never will. "We are accepted through Christ's merits alone." 5 B.C.1122. "There is salvation for you but only through the merits of Jesus Christ." T.M.97.

Yes they homechurched especially after the church sealed her rejection of God's mercy.

Before the church sealed her rejection of God's mercy at the stoning of Stephen, I understand that often Jesus called the disciples away from the religious assemblies of men so that He could teach them His message and prepare them for their mission. During those seasons they homechurched if you will but that is different from calling people out of the church. It was the same with John the Baptist. God took him away from the religious assemblies of men to the wilderness that He might teach him His message. (1 S.M.410) When he was ready to begin his work, the people flocked to him.

Today, there is a great work to be done beginning with the church. The principles of God's dealing with men are ever the same. As He did in the past, He will take some of us away from the religious assemblies of men to teach them His message that they may become vessels fit for their Master's use. Then He will use them as sharp sickles in the field making them fishers of men seeking for the lost sheep of modern Israel. (1 S.M.411, first parg.)

From within the confines of Laodicea, Jesus will gather those whom He can teach and through them the last message of mercy will be given to the church. Through them "the riches of His mercy, His grace, and His love, are to appear in full and final display." (D.A.680).

The revelation of His own glory (grace and love) in the form of humanity will appear in full and final display in the church of Laodicea first so that everyone will be given an opportunity to understand what the message is and make an intelligent decision before the message goes to the world and swells into the loud cry.

"The divine fullness will flow through the consecrated human agents to be given forth to others... So from every true disciple is to be diffused an influence for life, courage, helpfulness, and true healing." C.O.L.419.

Now, of course, it only makes sense to say that if this heavenly influence is resisted again by God's professed people and the bearers of the message character assassinated, then the Lord will have no choice but to turn to the Gentiles, to the world, and the bidden ones will be left behind.

sky