Perplexing E.G.White comment

[Restin]

From Christ's Object Lessons, Pg. 69:

Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His Church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own.

I see this statement a lot, especially after the preacher has just commented that the present day church is not doing any better than Israel of old. Is this comment God's out? Is this His way of saying He's never coming, after all?

[skyblue888]

Of course you are not questioning or limiting the power of His righteousness to accomplish this in His people but what you are implying, I believe, is what Woody has been saying all along (just saying) that there is no question that God has the power to accomplish this (nothing impossible to God) but that His people will never let Him and for that reason alone Christ could never come again if His return is contingent upon His character being perfectly reproduced in His people.

Is that it?

sky

[Restin]

Yes,Skyblue, that is what I mean. Thanks. I'm a lifelong loyal Adventist but a very few comments in SOP are persistent stones in the road for me, and this is one.

I don't think I'm the only one smart enough by a long shot to wonder about this frequent quote. I don't want to bring it up in church because it may make trouble for the weak in faith. But the stalwart SDA warriors that persist on this website probably won't be knocked over by my question.

[Stan]

>>>When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own.

And what does that look like? A compassion people who fights for social justice? or??

[Gerr]

Corporately or individually?

[skyblue888]

"Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His Church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own." C.O.L.69.

In other words, "The revelation of His own glory--character--in the form of humanity will bring Heaven so near to men that the beauty adorning the inner temple will be seen in every soul in whom the Saviour dwells. Men will be captivated by the glory of an abiding Christ, and in currents of praise and thanksgiving from the many souls THUS won to God, glory will flow back to the great Giver." C.O.L.420.

If these words are inspired they are a prophecy that, soon or later, will be fulfilled.

sky

[Restin]

So, maybe my problem is with "His church." Who is His church? Is it all the members of the General Conference churches? Or is it those members who are shaken out by persecution over the Sunday law (when it comes)? I find myself not sure what "His church" means.

[Tom Wetmore]

From Christ's Object Lessons, Pg. 69:

Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His Church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own.

I see this statement a lot, especially after the preacher has just commented that the present day church is not doing any better than Israel of old. Is this comment God's out? Is this His way of saying He's never coming, after all?

Read the whole chapter where this quote is found and especially focus on the paragraphs immediately before it to get the essential context.

[phkrause]

Read the whole chapter where this quote is found and especially focus on the paragraphs immediately before it to get the essential context.

But that's just the thing Tom, we'd rather grab things out of context and than use it that way.

[skyblue888]

Does that quote need a context?

[Tom Wetmore]

Yes indeed it does.

[Gordon1]

>>>When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own.

And what does that look like? A compassion people who fights for social justice? or??

Honest, kind, self-controlled. No crooks or liars.

[Gerr]

What is the one aspect of Christ's character that can be reproduced in every believer? Sinlessness? That's beyond reach because we have been polluted. Every fiber of our being is infected with sin, that's why we need a glorified body. But it is possible to come to the point of trusting God exactly as Christ trusted His Father, so settled in the truth that nothing can move them.

[phkrause]

What is the one aspect of Christ's character that can be reproduced in every believer? Sinlessness? That's beyond reach because we have been polluted. Every fiber of our being is infected with sin, that's why we need a glorified body. But it is possible to come to the point of trusting God exactly as Christ trusted His Father, so settled in the truth that nothing can move them.

I that Gerry.

[Restin]

I have read the chapter. It's about the sower in the field, but I don't see that the context before or after makes it clearer. So, maybe you would explain, Mr. Wetmore, how the context defines it.

[Tom Wetmore]

The essential message and meaning is in the 4 paragraphs that precede the one which contains the quote you have posted. Please note the highlighted sentences:

Quote:

The wheat develops “first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear.” The object of the husbandman in the sowing of the seed and the culture of the growing plant is the production of grain. He desires bread for the hungry, and seed for future harvests. So the divine Husbandman looks for a harvest as the reward of His labor and sacrifice. Christ is seeking to reproduce Himself in the hearts of men; and He does this through those who believe in Him. The object of the Christian life is fruit bearing—the reproduction of Christ’s character in the believer, that it may be reproduced in others. {COL 67.1}

The plant does not germinate, grow, or bring forth fruit for itself, but to “give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater.” Isaiah 55:10. So no man is to live unto himself. The Christian is in the world as a representative of Christ, for the salvation of other souls. {COL 67.2}

There can be no growth or fruitfulness in the life that is centered in self. If you have accepted Christ as a personal Saviour, you are to forget yourself, and try to help others. Talk of the love of Christ, tell of His goodness. Do every duty that presents itself. Carry the burden of souls upon your heart, and by every means in your power seek to save the lost. As you receive the Spirit of Christ—the Spirit of unselfish love and labor for others—you will grow and bring forth fruit. The graces of the Spirit will ripen in your character. Your faith will increase, your convictions deepen, your love be made perfect. More and more you will reflect the likeness of Christ in all that is pure, noble, and lovely. {COL 67.3}

“The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance.” Galatians 5:22, 23. This fruit can never perish, but will produce after its kind a harvest unto eternal life. {COL 68.1}

“When the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come.” Christ is waiting with longing desire for the manifestation of Himself in His church. When the character of Christ shall be perfectly reproduced in His people, then He will come to claim them as His own. {COL 69.1}

It is the privilege of every Christian not only to look for but to hasten the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, (2 Peter 3:12, margin). Were all who profess His name bearing fruit to His glory, how quickly the whole world would be sown with the seed of the gospel. Quickly the last great harvest would be ripened, and Christ would come to gather the precious grain. {COL 69.2}

[Tom Wetmore]

And as I previously posted in the discussion of this same quote in the Theology forum:

I think we drifted a bit far from what EGW was talking about in the quote from COL.

Gail, the answer to your question is right close by that oft quoted but frequently misconstrued sentence.

That quote appears at the end of the chapter, which means that one should carefully read that whole chapter to get an idea from the immediate context exactly what a perfect reproduction of Christ's character would be like. I think you may be pleasantly surprised.

The chapter is talking about the parable of the sower. EGW spends a majority of her words in that chapter setting up the process of growth of the plant to maturity. She correctly points out Who makes it happen and the extent of the contribution of the sower and the seed to the final result.

The harvest happens when the reaper can see the ripe fruit. It is based on this ripe fruit ready for harvest metaphor that EGW makes the quote in question. But it is in the immediately preceding two short paragraphs that she clearly states exactly what that perfectly reproduced character of Christ is and what that ripe fruit of His character really looks like.

Here are the two paragraphs:

Quote:

There can be no growth or fruitfulness in the life that is centered in self. If you have accepted Christ as a personal Saviour, you are to forget yourself, and try to help others. Talk of the love of Christ, tell of His goodness. Do every duty that presents itself. Carry the burden of souls upon your heart, and by every means in your power seek to save the lost. As you receive the Spirit of Christ--the Spirit of unselfish love and labor for others--you will grow and bring forth fruit. The graces of the Spirit will ripen in your character. Your faith will increase, your convictions deepen, your love be made perfect. More and more you will reflect the likeness of Christ in all that is pure, noble, and lovely.

"The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance." Galatians 5:22, 23. This fruit can never perish, but will produce after its kind a harvest unto eternal life. - COL 68-69.

Let's not make it any more complicated than she meant it to be. Jesus said it ever so simply - "People will know that you are my followers by your love for one another." The sweet smell of ripe fruit is hard to hide.

Tom

[Kevin H]

Excellent post's Tom!!!

As you can guess, I would again point out that I understand the Bible and Mrs. White to teach that we have two attitudes towards the world around us: Part of us which wants to love the world on an honest basis, and part of us which thinks we are for ourselves by making less of the outside world. To give in to the lust of the flesh (what I feel is right is thus right, if you snub me I'll nurture that wound) the lust of the eyes (I'll only see things from my point of view) and the bostful pride of life (either I'm more important than others, at least better than you; or I'm so important that the world is out to get me).

I believe that we are doing a wonderful job of not loving the world. Too bad there is a hook in that text.

[Tom Wetmore]

That simple unselfish love for one another that mark (consider that in the eschatological sense...) the Christ followers is how Jesus framed the judgment part of returning to claim his own (the reaping of the fruit of the harvest). It is the "unto the least of these" sheep and goats judgment parable in Matthew 25. It is those expressing Christlike loving-kindenss to others that are ripe fruit, perfectly reflecting the character/Spirit of Christ, that are ready for harvest.

[skyblue888]

In other words, "We may be active, we may do much work, but without love, such love as dwelt in the heart of Christ we can never be numbered with the family of Heaven." C.O.L.158.

Right?

sky

[lazarus]

That simple unselfish love for one another that mark (consider that in the eschatological sense...) the Christ followers is how Jesus framed the judgment part of returning to claim his own (the reaping of the fruit of the harvest). It is the "unto the least of these" sheep and goats judgment parable in Matthew 25. It is those expressing Christlike loving-kindenss to others that are ripe fruit, perfectly reflecting the character/Spirit of Christ, that are ready for harvest.

[Restin]

This is all excellent description of perfection and righteousness-by- faith, but seems to be going astray from my question. Let me put it in other words: How many people do you know who have perfect loving kindness for others? How many do you see who never do wrong or have a fault? Have you reached the perfect character of Jesus? I can't imagine myself as ever being as good as Jesus.

But seems Sister White is saying the whole church has to be just like Jesus, or we can just wait forever.

That's my concern about what Sister White said.

[Gerr]

This is all excellent description of perfection and righteousness-by- faith, but seems to be going astray from my question. Let me put it in other words: How many people do you know who have perfect loving kindness for others? How many do you see who never do wrong or have a fault? Have you reached the perfect character of Jesus? I can't imagine myself as ever being as good as Jesus.

But seems Sister White is saying the whole church has to be just like Jesus, or we can just wait forever.

That's my concern about what Sister White said.

That's why I believe that it is the trusting character of Jesus that I think is to be reproduced in His people. His end-time people will not only keep the commandments of God, they will also "hold fast to the faith of Jesus," Rev 14:12 NRSV.

Every single one of the saints in Heb 11 was commended, not for any sinless performance, but rather for their trust in God.

[Restin]

Gerry, that seems to be what I'm looking for. Thank you for your idea on what the "Character of Jesus" means. I will be thinking on that.

[Gail]

That's why I believe that it is the trusting character of Jesus that I think is to be reproduced in His people. His end-time people will not only keep the commandments of God, they will also "hold fast to the faith of Jesus," Rev 14:12 NRSV.

Every single one of the saints in Heb 11 was commended, not for any sinless performance, but rather for their trust in God.