Are We Redeemed?

[JoeMo]

It is only when we feel our need that we are open to be satisfied.

[M. T. Cross]

EC, You state,

"If you don't believe in sin, are you still a sinner?"

If you believe in righteousness are you righteous?

That would be a good start to work on! But to finish it we must go to Him that He could finish in us our right desire.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

I can't answer that really Gibs. I don't believe in sin, righteousness or redemption in a religious sense. I think they are all subjective ideals dependent on culture, upbringing and situation.

[JoeMo]

MTCross,

We are glad to have you here - someone with no religious bias at all. Thanks for being so responsive and objective.

[M. T. Cross]

Oh I likely have religious bias of some degree, I think we all do whether we want to admit it or not. But thank you

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

IOW, can we be redeemed while pursueing behavior purposely contrary to the revelation of God's character?

Good Question LHC.

And the answer is YES. Praise B the Lord.

FOr I certainly don't deserve His Grace.

But it is GIVEN to me despite that.

Praise B the Lord

What should this instruction mean to our behavior?

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die... " Ezekiel 18:20 ASV

"For the dead cannot praise you; they cannot raise their voices in praise. Those who go down to the grave can no longer hope in your faithfulness."Isaiah 38:18 NLT

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

Doggone it Woody, but we can have power over it, it then is not a part of us. I just opened up EGW and here this one was and Woody she has stated this so very many times in different ways and this has to be the true way.

This read of hers is one of the best I've caught for awhile and I pray you will be blessed by it,

"We need not retain one sinful propensity. . . . As we partake of the divine nature, hereditary and cultivated tendencies to wrong are cut away from the character, and we are made a living power for good. Ever learning of the divine Teacher, daily partaking of His nature, we cooperate with God in overcoming Satan's temptations. {FLB 23.4}

How this is accomplished, Christ has shown us. By what means did He overcome in the conflict with Satan? By the Word of God. Only by the Word could He resist temptation. "It is written," He said. And unto us are given "exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature. . . ." Every promise in God's Word is ours. . . . When assailed by temptation, look not to circumstances or to the weakness of self, but to the power of the Word. All its strength is yours. {FLB 23.5}

Grasp His promises as leaves from the tree of life: "Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37. As you come to Him, believe that He accepts you, because He has promised. You can never perish while you do this--never. {FLB 23.6}

The power He had to overcome can be ours for the taking, free, not works, He does that dwelling from within.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

God blesses!

[cheddar]

Doggone it Woody, but we can have power over it, it then is not a part of us. I just opened up EGW and here this one was and Woody she has stated this so very many times in different ways and this has to be the true way.

This read of hers is one of the best I've caught for awhile and I pray you will be blessed by it,

"We need not retain one sinful propensity. . . . As we partake of the divine nature, hereditary and cultivated tendencies to wrong are cut away from the character, and we are made a living power for good. Ever learning of the divine Teacher, daily partaking of His nature, we cooperate with God in overcoming Satan's temptations. {FLB 23.4}

How this is accomplished, Christ has shown us. By what means did He overcome in the conflict with Satan? By the Word of God. Only by the Word could He resist temptation. "It is written," He said. And unto us are given "exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature. . . ." Every promise in God's Word is ours. . . . When assailed by temptation, look not to circumstances or to the weakness of self, but to the power of the Word. All its strength is yours. {FLB 23.5}

Grasp His promises as leaves from the tree of life: "Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37. As you come to Him, believe that He accepts you, because He has promised. You can never perish while you do this--never. {FLB 23.6}

The power He had to overcome can be ours for the taking, free, not works, He does that dwelling from within.

Dog gone it Gibs - you're not an overcomer so why don't you put you're money where your mouth is.

Jesus has a right to tell me to overcome - you don't!!!!!!!!!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

you're not an overcomer so why don't you put you're money where your mouth is.

The one who stops doing wrong is not necessarily the one who is redeemed. It is the one who is sorry for his/her sin and asks for the gift of repentance, coupled with refraining from that which makes them sorrowful, who is redeemed.

"That is why the LORD says, “Turn to me now, while there is time. Give me your hearts. Come with fasting, weeping, and mourning."Joel 2:12 NLT

The thief on the cross was sorry for his sin and Jesus surely promised him life eternal, but maybe if he had repented earlier he wouldn't have had to go through the hardships his behavior brought into his life.

Many when arriving at that heavy an earthly penalty, are tempted to give up. Why hazard that possibility?

God blesses!

[Woody]

Being perfect is not my responsibility. It's up to God. If He does that in my life - fine. If not - then He has other things in mind for me. Either way - I AM SAVED.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Being perfect is not my responsibility

Let's see, who would this be talking to? Definitely only those who believe God speaks through His Word.

"Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect"Matt 5:48 NKJV

Notice the Word "shall". Same as "will". The meaning would seem to be, it will happen. I would suppose the question

©would be, "when will it happen"? For me it's a journey to get where God wants me to be. I'm not there yet but if I'm not walking toward that place, I will never get there.

"Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth." Matthew 6:10 ASV

God blesses!

[Gibs]

Woody,

You better believe it is your resposibility. That's who it is laid upon, not me or someone else for sure. Christ died and shed His blood for remission of your sins that they could be forgiven and He has done that for any who come and ask in true sincerity. Then He tells you go sin no more unless a worse thing, - -

Joh 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

He wasn’t just whistling Dixie there!

"The prince of this world cometh," saith Jesus, "and hath nothing in Me." There was in Him nothing that responded to Satan's sophistry. He did not consent to sin. Not even by a thought did He yield to temptation. So it may be with us. Christ's humanity was united with divinity; He was fitted for the conflict by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. And He came to make us partakers of the divine nature. So long as we are united to Him by faith, sin has no more dominion over us. God reaches for the hand of faith in us to direct it to lay fast hold upon the divinity of Christ, that we may attain to perfection of character. {CD 152.4}

Excuses we have none. All power is ours for the taking to be the overcomer He needs and wants us to be. "DO IT" like the hdw sign says at our local hardware store here.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[cheddar]

Excuses we have none. All power is ours for the taking to be the overcomer He needs and wants us to be. "DO IT" like the hdw sign says at our local hardware store here.

'You can do it - all night long!' You tell em Waterboy.

Just one question, are you adventist or Roman Catholic?

The bible teaches that we can't do anything good so if by chance we do something good it simply means that our weak faith is slowly laying hold on the promises of God.

Your willingness to push others into legalism disgusts me.

[Woody]

Quote:

The bible teaches that we can't do anything good so if by chance we do something good it simply means that our weak faith is slowly laying hold on the promises of God.

Exactly.

I've given my life to God.

What He does with it is HIS business. After all He is GOD.

Those that squawk the loudest - usually have the most sins. But this is not a contest as to who is the least of sinners. I am happy to proclaim that I am a sinner. For I am a sinner saved by GRACE.

I have to confess - there have been times that my prayer was to be a perfect Saint. But God didn't answer that prayer. So, now my prayer is to be a perfect Sinner. (Saved by Grace)

And I am much happier now that I've been humbled and have been willing to follow God's will for my life.

[JoeMo]

In God's word, there are so may examples of "saints who sinned". To name just a few:

- By his faith Noah condemned the world and became an heir to righteousness; yet he was a drunk.

- Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness, in spite of the fact that he himself was a liar and an an adulterer; and encouraged his wife to commit adultery.

- David was the apple of God's eye because of his faith, despite the fact that he was an adulterer and a murderer.

- Peter denied Jesus 3 times and suffered from severe foot-in-mouth disease, but I'll wager that he is saved because of his faith

- Paul admits that he was the chief of sinners; but I'll wager he is saved, as well.

I admire those in this forum who admit to their shortcomings, yet trust in the grace and mercy of God for their salvation. Based on precedent, it is my opinion that their faith shall be accounted to them as righteousness. I believe my faith will be credited to me as righteousness.

Jesus is our example. How many people who came to Him, confessing their sins, did Jesus harshly rebuke or punish (You sinner! Here - have some leprosy!)? I find none. He forgave their sins loved them, and gently encouraged them to "sin no more". Who did Jesus harshly rebuke? Those who proclaimed their righteousness - the Pharisees. Who killed Jesus? Those who proclaimed their righteousness - the establishment church of that time.

Jesus is not only our example, He is our substitute. He died the second death for our sins, fulfilling the requirements of the law, so we wouldn't have to. Yet, if we who believe are "in Christ" and part of His body,is it possible that we were crucified with Him and (in a spiritual sense) died the second death with Him?

It's time for us to quit beating each other up over this and sieze our heavenly destiny! God be praised; I am saved by His grace!

JoeMo

[JoeMo]

Amen Woody. I picture myself as a "saint who sins". God and I are in a partnership to correct my sin problem by His power in His timeframe - not mine!

Prised be the Lord!

JoeMo

[Woody]

Amen Woody. I picture myself as a "saint who sins". God and I are in a partnership to correct my sin problem by His power in His timeframe - not mine!

Prised be the Lord!

JoeMo

Yes indeed. After we pray for it - God could instantly make us a perfect Saint. But He usually doesn't. So, we have to accept His will and His timing. For now - I am a perfect Sinner till HE decides otherwise.

[Woody]

Quote:

Jesus is our example. How many people who came to Him, confessing their sins, did Jesus harshly rebuke or punish (You sinner! Here - have some leprosy!)? I find none. He forgave their sins loved them, and gently encouraged them to "sin no more". Who did Jesus harshly rebuke? Those who proclaimed their righteousness - the Pharisees. Who killed Jesus? Those who proclaimed their righteousness - the establishment church of that time.

Wow Brother JoeMo - you really hit the home run this time. Preach it brother.

[Woody]

Quote:

It's time for us to quit beating each other up over this and sieze our heavenly destiny! God be praised; I am saved by His grace!

Amen Brother. Reminds me of the song:

"Sinner Saved By Grace"

If you could see what I once was

If you could go with me

Back to where I started from

Then I know you would see

A miracle of love that took me in its sweet embrace

And made me what I am today

Just an old sinner saved by grace.

I'm just a sinner saved by grace

When I stood condemned to death

He took my place

Now I live and breathe in freedom with each breath of life I take

Loved and forgiven

Back with the living

I'm just a sinner saved by grace

How could I boast of anything I've ever seen or done?

How could I dare to claim as mine the vict'ries God has won?

Where would I be had God not brought me gently to this place?

I'm here to say I'm nothing but a sinner saved by grace

I'm just a sinner saved by grace

When I stood condemned to death

He took my place

Now I live and breathe in freedom with each breath of life I take

Loved and forgiven

Back with the living

I'm just a sinner saved by grace

[JoeMo]

Great song, Woody!

Were you ever a country music fan? I was when I was between wives. Do you remember one that started out with:

"I'm just an old chunk of coal;

But I'll be a diamond someday!"

Blessing be on you, bro!

JoeMo

[Woody]

No Brother JoeMo - I don't recall that song.

But I just found this on Facebook and thought it was good as a comment regarding all the perfection Saints here and what they do:

When you live right, people talk;

When you live wrong, people talk;

When you stop living, they still talk!

Yes Brother JoeMo - people are always going to be talking. But we need to just go on and live our lives despite all the Saints yak.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Jesus has a right to tell me to overcome - you don't!!!!!!!!!

Let's see what the response from the Word might be.

"And [Peter] solemnly and earnestly witnessed (testified) and admonished (exhorted) with much more continuous speaking and warned (reproved, advised, encouraged) them, saying, Be saved from this crooked (perverse, wicked, unjust) generation."Acts 2:40 AMP

God blesses!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

God and I are in a partnership to correct my sin problem by His power in His timeframe - not mine!

Would this be His timeframe?

For He says: “In an acceptable time I have heard you, And in the day of salvation I have helped you.” Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation. 2 Corinthians 6:2 NKJV

The accepted time does appear to be on the same day He hears from us. To me, that means I'm going to make sure He hears from me every day.

God blesses!

[Gibs]

JoeMo,

For sure all the saints HAVE sinned but it is very clear though that only the overcomers of it will win the prize. All power is given us to do it, all we need do is take it as He has Prescribed and He in us is our strength and stay and impervious covering that only the Saints will have in the coming firestorm Satan is going to bring down upon the Saints and that time is right upon us now.

All must be overcomers, please read all these and most are from Jesus,

Re 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Re 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Re 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Re 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Re 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Re 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Re 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Samie]

Aren't we all holy? Yes, we are. Scriptures say so:

Quote:

NIV Hebrews 10:10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

In the first dimension of the gospel, God, through Christ, made us all holy. Unconditional. For Adam & Eve and all their descendants.

On the cross, God fashioned us into the body of His Son. When Christ, the Head, died, His body died with Him and we were all saved and FREED from sin, holy in God's sight.

To be made holy is to be sanctified. Sanctification, the act of sanctifying, is God's work FOR man, a fact God wants us to know and remember:

Quote:

NIV Ezekiel 20:12 Also I gave them my Sabbaths as a sign between us, so they would know that I the LORD made them holy.

How is the Sabbath a sign?

In creation, God already made the Sabbath holy. He gave it to man, saying, "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy". In like manner, God already made us all holy, and by the Sabbath which He wants us to keep holy, He wants us to keep ourselves holy.

In the second dimension of the gospel, man's part is to live a sanctified life, not to become holy because he already is, but rather to keep himself holy. We have absolutely NO PART in our being holy.

But we still commit sin. Yes, but the sin committed is NOT imputed against us (2 Cor 5:18, 19), having been forgiven on the cross (Col 2:13). In fact God REFUSES to remember this sin anymore (Heb 10:16, 17). Christ justifies us continuously (Rom 4:25) and we remain holy in His sight (Heb 10:10, 14). Unconditional. What a grace!!!

Sadly, the sin man commits is proof he is not yet an overcomer. He needs to come to a point where when faced with the opportunity to commit sin, he chooses not to commit the same sin again but do good instead (Rom 12:21). When a person dies, judgment is meted out (Heb 9:27), whether to retain his name in the book of life or not.

Our Saviour had explicitly said overcomers will not be blotted out from the book of life (Rev 3:5) and will, in the 3rd dimension, inherit life eternal (Rev 21:7, 27).

May we all become overcomers. Let the redeemed of the Lord say so.

[Gibs]

Hebrews 10:10 gives no one the license to continue in sin but is telling us of the action of being "sanctified" through the offering of Him.

Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

We have every thing we need to be "dead" of sining. He in us is ALL POWER!

Ro 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Ro 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Ro 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Ro 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Ro 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Ro 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Ro 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Ro 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

Ro 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

Ro 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

With Christ within man can make Satan a liar. Man can keep God's Holy Law!

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.