cooldude Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 That we have the truth is without question one of the most hackneyed phrases in the rhetoric of the Remnant. Whatever exactly it means—whether it’s a challenge to take full advantage of the church’s reservoir of resources in the quest for the truth, or it’s a general reference to truth at a very rudimentary level, or it’s just an expression of denominational ego—is yet to be determined. But to credit ourselves with having the truth about an infinite God all tied up reeks to high heaven of hubris. And isn’t it a bit rash to summarily disqualify other churches from having spiritual gifts just because they don’t teach the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Who does? With our own plethora of internal differences on issues—hat wearing; music; Christmas; Easter; the Trinity; birthday celebration; wedding rings; what may or may not be done on the Sabbath; attitudes to Sister White’s writings; gender roles; political involvement etc.—not to mention some of our entrenched social policies, where does that leave us individually—and, by extension, collectively? Look how long it took our church to take seriously a notion as fundamental to our salvation as righteousness by faith, let alone come to a complete consensus on it. Also, there was a time when, for whatever reason, we were not quite sold on the Trinity idea. Or it may have been just the term ‘Trinity’ that didn’t sit well with us. Almost invariably it bothers me when I hear a fellow Adventist say that we have the truth. First, because it has the ring of an empty boast. Let us say that somewhere in its reservoir of creed, code and hermeneutics our church has the truth accurately and exhaustively laid out. All too often the claim is made with the smug implication that it is true of every Adventist including the individual making it. All too often the persons most eager with the claim wouldn’t know what truth was if it crawled up their nostrils and died there. cooldude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted August 17, 2012 Moderators Share Posted August 17, 2012 I've posted it here before, but I think it's apposite: "trust those who are seeking the truth, doubt those who find it". (won't attribute it because people tend to go off ranting about the author - evaluate the quote on its own merits) Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooldude Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 I love that quote. So many are dogmatic about so-called truth that they have, it's not easy task sorting out the real from the deluded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I like the phrase "The truth is out there." It is most often taken as being too simple, because people do not often go beyond the words. When one sits and thinks about it, it should begin to open more doors in the mind, some are uncomfortable with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Love the topic, cooldude! Love the quote, Bravus! I am a convert to Adventism. I left Catholicism to become a JW because I sought the truth. I left the JW's to become an SDA after being shown the Sabbath because I was seeking the truth. I have recently become a fan of all 28 Fundamentals (thanks to a faithful member of this forum) because I was seeking the truth. I continue to seek the truth through study and dialog. I think it's about time we quit heaping judgement and condemnation on each other on this forum because of the "I'm right and you're wrong" or the "I have the truth and you don't" mantras. There is an ultimate truth out there; but I doubt that anyone but Jesus has ever grasped it in its entirety. Shouldn't we a Christians (not just SDA's) put our energies into seeking it with an open mind rather than closing our minds and condemning those who don't think exactly as we do? BTW, Bravus - good idea not attributing the quote. I have been advised by Moderators that quotes are verboten in "Original Thoughts" Blessings, JoeMo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted August 18, 2012 Administrators Share Posted August 18, 2012 The author is not what's important ... it's the statement. - That's one of the quotes that can create friendly debates all night long ... thinking of the 70ties Coffee House days. Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted August 18, 2012 Administrators Share Posted August 18, 2012 JoeMo, I do agree so completely concerning your statement that it time we quit heaping judgement and condemnation on each other on this forum (and in life) because of the "I'm right and you're wrong" or the "I have the truth and you don't" mantras. Think I have tried to say it a 100 times in different ways. Our energies most certainly should seeking with an open mind. Thank you. Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Love your quote Bravus - no matter whom the author might be. Although might I guess - it ain't from Ellen White? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted August 18, 2012 Administrators Share Posted August 18, 2012 I wonder if people get stuck on one aspect of truth because it is meaningful to them and they just want to milk it for all they can get out of it. I still think that the picture is bigger than that, that rather than protecting that one perspective with everything we have we might be further blessed if would let God reveal more to add to it. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Yeah. It's like Gail said - some get so stuck on the side issues that they miss the richness of the Gospel. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. T. Cross Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 I have mentioned this over and over down in the Theological Townhall. I think almost every belief system has a hint or thread of truth in it. Some may have more than others, but I am convinced that no one single system has all the truth. Honestly I am not sure the human mind could handle the whole truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 Good Point EC. And in the SDA Christian tradition - we are taught that we will not know of or understand all of truth for eternity. For we are told that we will be studying it for all of eternity. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted August 19, 2012 Share Posted August 19, 2012 All may not agree with this opinion; What is "saving" truth for one may not be "saving" truth for another. For example; one may have problem with anger management and holding grudges; and God will point this problem out as a barrier between Himself and this person. If that person does not heed God's counsel and control His anger through the power of God's grace, his salvation may be in jeopardy. Another person may not have that issue; and God will never bring it up; so it is not part of this person's requirements for salvation. The Bible (Logos) is not the only source of inspiration and life rules. The Spirit speaks to all of us individually (Rhema); and we are to follow those rule sfor our personal lives, as well. How do we know it is revelation from the Holy Spirit? See Isaiah 8:20. Blessings, JoeMo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooldude Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 I can't help seeing the mantra "We have the truth" as a crafty tool to encourage smug adherence or blind faith and discourage questioning. Those of us who came to Adventism from elsewhere on the religious spectrum are supposed to have come as a result of taking a critical look at where we were. Yet it seems now that we are in, that attitude to discernment must be quashed. What about all the questions we still have to grapple with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Well....now that you have the 'truth'...you have no questions!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 I think there are different facts to take into consideration. One I know of was an elderly couple I was semi-caregiver to. They were SDA and some of their family fell for the Shepherd's Rod. I was always studying my bible and the poor old gent was always trying to get me to stop. It wasn't til some later I realized it was because they were afraid that I either was Rod, or was heading that way. That was before I knew anything about the Rod other than the name. A few years later after going head to head, online, with a Rod offshoot, RB himself, I pointed out to them that if it hadn't been for my studying the bible as much as I had I wouldn't have known that the person was teaching error, or how to counter him. (I was also able to learn generally what Ezekiel 9 meant which I hadn't known before---not the Rod interpretation, for the easily confused) Given the many 'new light' people out there I can see why the reaction for some is to shut down any real study out of fear someone else is going to go off the deep end. Another reason perhaps is that studying another's position is a lot of work! that unfortunately too many do not seem to want to do. I just tend to be on the studious side for one thing and an info freak for another...not that I get into everything that comes along. Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted August 20, 2012 Administrators Share Posted August 20, 2012 Yes, the lack of capacity to handle the whole truth is a thought expressed by Jesus to his disciples in his last talk with them before he was crucified. Each generation and each of us will experience this lack of capacity and it is often much later or later generations that we can get our minds around such things. That is why truth as being continually progressive rather than absolute or static makes more sense. The other phrase that rings in Adventist history of present truth means to me that this is the truth for the present, not known in the past and potentially subject to revision, or even abandonment, in the future. Without that concept, openness to new light is impossible. I think that those who cling to the mantra of having The Truth have completely lost sight of that important truth about truth. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Frequently on this website and in the Sabbath School I teach, I end my posts/lessons with the statement that "I reserve the right to change my mind and to be wrong". I have evolved spiritually so much over my 60+ years of life - raised Catholic, been a "hippie", joined the JWs, learned of the Sabbath and joined the Worldwide Church of God,converted to "Shiite" Adventisim (Hoe International, Hartland College, Steps to Life, etc); to become the liberal recovering legalist I am now. Like Teresa, I'm kind of an info freak;and want to keep my mind open. As one can see from my history, I have been wrong in the past. I really feel that God is leading us into an end-time spirituality where He will place the emphasis on relationship with Him and with each other; rather than absolute doctrinal purity on every single point. Having said that, I reserve the right to be wrong and to change my mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Perhaps something like this: {CW 35.2} Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted August 20, 2012 Members Share Posted August 20, 2012 AMEN JoeMo, great post. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Very cool cooldude, you have excellently showcased multiple-truth-issues in a two paragraph nutshell.. As for the corner of the world I live in.. I am making a sorta new habit of telling fellas of the local ideology how mighty fortunate & lucky upon the certainty that not a single soul of them will perish and instead after paying off their time in hell's sentence (which can't be endless cos they didn't have endless lives); they all and entirely will be rightfully placed in heaven's paradise, eternally.. And how tragic & unfortunate Christians are cos only a miniscule leftover drop from the unnumbered multitudes of earth's humanity that ever lived will be save from both earth's and God's wrath of hell.. Am I dangerously in the category of that "hammering empty boast" of our infamously well-known mantra? Or can it pass off as a genuine compliment..? Stay Cool. Quote Test me with thy might but grant me safe passage. Now, who said that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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