Dead people are alive!

[Guest]

Why according to the NKJV [see Job 26:5] the dead people ARE ALIVE and they “tremble”. Is this what Adventist teach right on the threashold of crossing Jordan? I know that this spurious translation also says that while Christ was alive on the earth He was a SLAVE and only appeared to be like man. See Phillippians 2:5-7. Why I thought that a slave free will is taken from those in bonds. If He was a slave as this NKJV suggest then a robot died for us...is that what you believe???

When an individual steps off the platform of truth, it’s only down/down/DOWN after that. But then holy laughter is engaged as they were trained to just keep grinning they way to heaven, why “your behavior has nothing to do with your salvation” is words coming from lips of their hireling shepherds.

[bevin]

The original KJV also says that dead people are alive

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1 Sam:28

11. Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.

12. And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.

13. And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.

14. And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

15. And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

16. Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the Lord is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?

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/Bevin

[Guest]

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The original KJV also says that dead people are alive

Quote:

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1 Sam:28

11. Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.

12. And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.

13. And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.

14. And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.

15. And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

16. Then said Samuel, Wherefore then dost thou ask of me, seeing the Lord is departed from thee, and is become thine enemy?

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/Bevin

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The bible [KJV} teaches from cover to cover in all 66 books that death is a sleep with narry a thought/desire or any "trembling" [NKJV] or vocal cords to tell bare face lies as Satan's agents did when the witch of Endor beconed Samuel to speak from the dead.

If you believe this was the real Samuel that appeared, then you must enjoy being fooled.

But keep reading brother, being exposed to truth on a daily basis from reading my posts may neturalize all the error you are clinging to. I have hope in your direction.

[bevin]

I agree with your analysis. But it is ANALYSIS. The actual text clearly says that Samuel appeared and spoke to Saul.

I am simply pointing out the the actual text of the original KJV has exactly the same 'mistake' that you are complaining about in other editions.

In both cases, a reading-with-understanding shows the real meaning. Your criticism of the NKJV is equally a criticism of the original KJV, and can not be used to justify using one and not the other.

/Bevin

[Kevin H]

Although for us we need to beaware of contact with the dead, and the lesson FOR US would be to look at what happened at endor to be the dangers of Satan's conterfit, when studying the text we do not find anything in it that contradicts the teaching that the dead are sleeping (from which we infer unconscious)

First, Saul was God's anointed to lead Israel to victory. Saul kept asking for signs and never gained a trust for God, dispite early signs and victories after victories, once even giving Jonathan and his sword bearer the victory while Saul was busy praying for signs.

The Philistines were camped where earlier a group of Middianite raders had camped, and Saul was camped where Gideon was camped. To get to Endor Saul had to follow the same path Gideon had to take to get to his spring.

In Endor, the woman screamed as if something unexpected happened. Samuel complains like someone being awakened from a deep sleep, had to be updated as to the events that occured after his death, and could only repeat what he had earlier told Saul and the deuteronomic message that those who consult the dead are as good as dead (thus the prediction of the impending death.) All this fits with what we would expect if God were allow someone to wake up for a few minutes. There is nothing in the story to contradict our understanding

Of course the promices and threatenings of God are alike conditional. Saul had to climb the same path to camp that Gideon climed with his 300. Gideon decided to forget the signs and start trusting in God. This should have encouraged Saul to forget trusting in signs and to simply trust God. Besides if you read between the lines of the accounts of Saul's death, you learn that Saul escaped alive, but since his sign said that he was going to die, if the enemy couldn't do it he would do it himself.

None of us are in Saul's position, but due to his unique position I see no reason why God would not try this last minute attempt to win Saul, by waking up Samuel for a short time.

[bevin]

An interesting, and plausible, explanation.

We now have three possible explanations

1 - The story is written as a history, and can contain mistakes of fact and understanding - God or Satan shows the woman something, or she invents it herself

2 - God awakens Samuel from a death

3 - Samuel is allowed to come down from heaven

Of these, the third contradicts the basic theme of deadness in the Bible, the first two are both plausible and consistent with the rest of the Bible

I have a couple of quibbles, but they are not important...

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In Endor, the woman screamed as if something unexpected happened

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Maybe she screams because it is Saul, the witch-hunter?

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had to be updated as to the events that occured after his death

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which text shows this?

/Bevin

[Gregory Matthews]

Re: "Why according to the NKJV [see Job 26:5] the dead people ARE ALIVE and they “tremble”. Is this what Adventist teach right on the threashold of crossing Jordan? I know that this spurious translation also says . . ."

Ed, you have born misquoted the verse that you referenced. Job 26:1 states: "Then Job replied:" In other words Ed, the 26th chapter of Job is telling us what Job said. When it comes to the 5th verse it is telling us what Job said. It does not tell us that Job spoke truth.

Ed, go on the the 42nd chapter of Job.In verse 3, Job says: "Surely I spoke of thing I did not understand, things to wonderful for me to know." Then in verse 6, Job says: "Therefore I despise myself, and repent in dust and ashes."

That, if there is any question, makes it clear that the reference you cited is not taught at truth, simply the thoughts of Job, which were wrong.

[Robert]

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I saw gods ascending out of the earth....And Saul perceived that it was Samuel

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First of all was Samuel a god? NO!

Saul was deceived that it was Samuel....So will anyone who buys into this nonsense that the dead aren't really dead....