Constant condemnation...does it make matters worse?

[Gerr]

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No Gerry...you do not "keep the commandments" strictly out of love...

you keep the law out of obligation

and use love as a camouflage to hide your true intentions - to be seen of men!

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[:"blue"]Oh, since when have you been given insight into my motives? When you take your wife out to dinner, or buy her some flowers, do you do that out of obligation? To get brownie points? "He who does not love does not know God, for God is love."

Robert, if my idolatry, my adultery, my cheating, etc. etc. put Jesus on the Cross, if my disobedience breaks the heart of God, if every willful sin is like pounding nails into the hands & feet of the One who loves me & saves me all over again, who can I possibly keep doing those things and still maintain a relationship? [/]

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Jesus doesn't say if you love me keep my commands or else...after all it was He who said, "The spirit (person) is willing, but the flesh is weak." Jesus came to save us from the law...not put us back under it.

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[:"blue"]God says, "those who hate me love death." Is He saying, "Love me or I will kill you?" [/]

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That's why Paul asks, "Is the law sin?"....And his answer is "no"! Then why do we need to be delivered from the law? Because we are sinful [even though growing]....I mean read Paul dude:

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[:"blue"]You keep talking about growing, but won't come out a say what it means to be growing. Growing in what? Meanness? Ability to cheat? Successfully hide taxable income from the gov't? [/]

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Rom 7:8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment [i.e., in the absence of a understanding of its spiritual requirements], produced in me every kind of covetous desire....10

I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.

11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment

put me to death.

12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, just and good [i.e., it legally has a right to condemn us to eternal death]....14 We know that the law is spiritual;

but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin."

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[:"blue"]If you think a slave has any inheritance, think again! Jesus said: [:"red"] "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. NOW A SLAVE HAS NO PERMANENT PLACE IN THE FAMILY, but a son belongs to it forever. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed." [/]Jn 8:34-36 NIV.

If you are still a slave to sin, then get to know the One who can set you free. [:"red"] "For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, THAT WE SHOULD NO LONGER BE SLAVES OF SIN." Rom 6:6 NKJ. [/] [/]

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Yes we grow...but in the law's eyes we will always be 100% sinners!!!! Only "in Christ" are we righteous by faith! What part of that can't you understand?

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[:"blue"]Well, enlighten me by what you mean by "grow". You keep talking about growth, but you refuse to expound on what you mean by it. Grow taller? Older? Meaner? Expert cheater? Serial killer? [/]

Gerry

[Gerr]

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benherndon said:

Would you just please do what you said you would do months ago---go through those texts I listed for you first and just a few days ago for Shane and interpret them??. I don't think Shane wants to get into it. Maybe you feel the same. I hope you are not uncomfortable dealing directly with them.

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[:"blue"]Just keep your eyes open. I will probably be starting on Eph 2:14-17 soon. I will be going for surgery Fri & I will probably be home for a week, so I don't think I will be doing only board review at that time. [/]

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Do you personally know of anybody, SDA or otherwise, whom you would suspect would be in the following category? Read this again: "But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars----their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." Rev 20:8-----I don't personally know of any Christian, SDA or otherwise, that I could say make me suspicious that they might be considered by our Lord to be amongst those referenced in this text!!

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[:"blue"]I knew a dentist who left his wife for one of his dental hygienist. A married female pastor in Riverside just ditched her husband for another man. Don't tell me you haven't seen all those things? Why don't you take your Bible & read Ez 8, and see what abominations the prophet saw right IN God's temple!!! [/]

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So, what I am saying here is that you, Gerry , are making it way to hard to be a 'born again' Christian when you try to emphasize that God is so severe against ordinary 'sin'. Christ died for sinners & came to save them..... and ALL who call on His name believing in Him as the Son of God who was raised from death to life, will be saved---Adventist or otherwise.

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[:"blue"]On the contrary, Jn 3:16 tells us how easy it is to be born again. Is it me that is severe on sin? If God could countenance sin, why the death of His Son? Was it me who said, "The soul who sins shall die?" Was it me who said, "the wages of sin is death?" No, God does not look at sin so kindly, but He does give the solution to the sin problem.

[:"red"] "We know [absolutely] that anyone born of God does not [deliberately and knowingly] practice committing sin, but the One Who was begotten of God carefully watches over and protects him [Christ's divine presence within him preserves him against the evil], and the wicked one does not lay hold (get a grip) on him or touch [him]. 1 Jn 5:18 Amp.

"No one who abides in Him [who lives and remains in communion with and in obedience to Him - deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] commits (practices) sin. No one who [habidually] sins has either seen or known Him [recognized, perceived, or understood Him, or has had an experiential acquaintance with Him]. 1 Jn 3:6 Amp. [/]

Do you believe that, Ben? One of the things God wants us to know by experience is, "the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead..." Eph 1:19,20 NKJ. [/]

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This above IS my point in everything I have posted. What I post is to specifically refute the teaching that Christians need to be constantly on guard against losing their salvation.

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[:"blue"] Then you would have to refute what Jesus taught. It was He who said, "Watch." "Take heed." Refute Peter who said, "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour." 1 Pet 5:8 NKJ. [/]

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The same power that justifies also sanctifies and ALL of it is a gift. Wages are NOT gifts. Obedience to 'the Mosaic Law' is not a qualification of being a Christian IMO after reading the NT over and over and over again. But that point cannot be learned by SDAS so long as one considers extraBiblical sources are 'authoritative' like the NT is. That is 'reading Moses' which produces the 'vail' of 2Cor 3.

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[:"blue"] We expect our citizens & even visitors to the USA to abide by our laws. Are the citizens of God's kingdom free from obedience to the laws of His kingdom? [/]

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It is an egregious error for any SDA to criticise others for not accepting some of the things about which EGW wrote or were published over her name. She is "Pastoral"--quit fighting against that or you'll never understand the NT. This has been observed and shown over and over again.

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[:"blue"]Show me a post of mine where I have been pushing EGW for anyone to swallow. [/]

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Now if you aren't going to go into those texts I listed for you months ago and for Shane recently--- with all the credibility you can muster----then my comments on this thread are over.

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[:"blue"]Just keep you eyes open, Ben. [/]

Gerry

[Robert]

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So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

"...knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with,

THAT WE SHOULD NO LONGER BE SLAVES OF SIN.

" Rom 6:6 NKJ.

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By your own admission...you claim to be free of sin! Therein is your problem. [bTW both statements have been lifted out of their context.]

Gerry face it, you are legalistic.

[Gerr]

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ROBERT said:

Quote:

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So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

"...knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with,

THAT WE SHOULD NO LONGER BE SLAVES OF SIN.

" Rom 6:6 NKJ.

---

By your own admission...you claim to be free of sin! Therein is your problem. [bTW both statements have been lifted out of their context.]

Gerry face it, you are legalistic.

---

[:"blue"]And to prove that I am not legalistic I should disregard God's law? Great theology, Rob

The promises to set the believer free from the slavery to sin was made by God Himself!!! Do you believe what He says?[/]

Gerry

[benherndon]

In the intensity of discussion late in the evening I forgot you mentioned earlier some couple of weeks ago, I think, that you had a health problem. I'm sorry!!!! Hope it all turns out OK for you. Don't be concerned about commenting on anything I've said or challenged you with. I forgot your health problem and I am doubly sorry!!!!

God bless your surgeon and you and yours! I mean that, too!

Ben

[Robert]

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Gerry Cabalo said:

Quote:

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ROBERT said:

Quote:

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So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

"...knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with,

THAT WE SHOULD NO LONGER BE SLAVES OF SIN.

" Rom 6:6 NKJ.

---

By your own admission...you claim to be free of sin! Therein is your problem. [bTW both statements have been lifted out of their context.]

Gerry face it, you are legalistic.

---

[:"blue"]And to prove that I am not legalistic I should disregard God's law? Great theology, Rob

The promises to set the believer free from the slavery to sin was made by God Himself!!! Do you believe what He says?[/]

Gerry

---

-PC- RH

-PT- Advent Review and Sabbath Herald

-DT- 09-25-00

-AT- Self-Exaltation

-PR- 10

“Many see much to admire in the life of Christ. But true love for him can never dwell in the heart of the self-righteous. Not to see our own deformity is not to see the beauty of Christ’s character. When we are fully awake to our own sinfulness, we shall appreciate Christ. The more humble are our views of ourselves, the more clearly we shall see the spotless character of Jesus. He who says, “I am holy, I am sinless,” is self-deceived. Some have said this, and some even dare to say, “I am Christ.” To entertain such a thought is blasphemy. Not to see the marked contrast between Christ and ourselves is not to know ourselves. He who does not abhor himself can not understand the meaning of redemption.

[LifeHiscost]

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What I post is to specifically refute the teaching that Christians need to be constantly on guard against losing their salvation.

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[:"red"] "Examine yourselves to see if your faith is really genuine. Test yourselves. If you cannot tell that Jesus Christ is among you, it means you have failed the test. I hope you recognize that we have passed the test and are approved by God." [/] 1 Cor 13:5,6

Keep the faith!

[benherndon]

I understand what your point is by quoting that text which says to examine yourself. I believe in that but what I was referring to was the 'constant', tiring, moment by moment examining every thought action intentions etc etc ad infinitum that I have experienced in my association with some family members (now deceased) and others I find doing that today. Rom 14 refers to "righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" Maybe I am reading it wrong, LHC, but I just can't be constantly worried about whether I'm sinning or not, or whether I'm going to be saved or not----this world's life is more than worry about our standing with God every single second and minute of life. How can anybody have 'peace and joy' in that sort of milieu? Not me! I trust Jesus to do what He says He'll do. I've been so depressed by the reading of impossible life goals in the earlier 50 yrs of my life, I had to go to the Bible itself to find peace and joy in the Lord. I believe in Him and 'call' on His name and believe He was raised back to life---- There is ONE Text that really is the most important text in the Biblel to me and it is THE reason that I confess Christianity. What text is that? It is:

"He is risen!" If He had not been 'risen' neither you or I would have ever heard about Christianity!!!!

That's my 2 cents----you do your 'thing'---it's OK with me.

Ben

[Clio]

Dr. Ben -

The only way to have Jesus Peace that passes all understanding is to also have Jesus Peace about whether or not one's name is found in the Lamb's book of life.

If you have peace about your salvation, an intimate relationship with Him, and a lively spiritual life... then constant examination is unnecessary.

Those who must ad infinitum and ad nauseum constantly examine themselves and every deed, thought, tendency, and action, have lost sight or focus on Jesus. It must be such an uncomfortable way to live. We are told His yoke is easy and His burden light... come to Jesus all who are weary and heavy laden, He WILL give you rest.

Is not rest Peace? There is no more precious gift, after His salvation for me of course, than the Jesus Peace He gives regarding the surety of my salvation and rest in Him.

Now... granted, I do read my Bible in a way most people do find to be excessive, I do spend sufficient time in prayer that most people would also find excessive... but I also cultivate an attitude of prayer... and prayer can be as simple as having a conversation with Jesus and ponderin'... but I know Him. I know Jesus well. I know Him like I know my husband or my children. He is present in my life in a tangible way. For which I am very, very grateful!

I don't always feel His presence, and sometimes I feel alone even in a room crowded with angels, the Holy Spirit and Jesus too. But I feel that way with visible humans at times too.

But it doesn't send me running to examine every waking thought.

I don't really think LHC meant his post in quite that way either. I think he rather meant to test ourselves, make sure we're in the center of His will, and move on....

Jesus and all He is, His commands and love are written on our hearts and we know when we are outside of His will and must then examine ourselves to see why. (We meaning any who feel this statement fits them. Not just LHC and myself or Dr. Ben. )

I find self-examination to be a very subtle trap if we allow it to become our focus. If we are examining self, we are looking to self and not to Jesus. It is by beholding, focusing on, looking to and at Jesus that we become changed. If we focus on him, then anything we might have found through self-examination is changed into what He desires it to be... usually without all the agony of spirit accompanying a self-directed effort of change. Which is very I much prefer painless change.

<------- getting off my soapbox now....

clio

[Gerr]

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ROBERT said:

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Gerry Cabalo said:

Quote:

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ROBERT said:

Quote:

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So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

"...knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with,

THAT WE SHOULD NO LONGER BE SLAVES OF SIN.

" Rom 6:6 NKJ.

---

By your own admission...you claim to be free of sin! Therein is your problem. [bTW both statements have been lifted out of their context.]

Gerry face it, you are legalistic.

---

[:"blue"]And to prove that I am not legalistic I should disregard God's law? Great theology, Rob

The promises to set the believer free from the slavery to sin was made by God Himself!!! Do you believe what He says?[/]

Gerry

---

-PC- RH

-PT- Advent Review and Sabbath Herald

-DT- 09-25-00

-AT- Self-Exaltation

-PR- 10

“Many see much to admire in the life of Christ. But true love for him can never dwell in the heart of the self-righteous. Not to see our own deformity is not to see the beauty of Christ’s character. When we are fully awake to our own sinfulness, we shall appreciate Christ. The more humble are our views of ourselves, the more clearly we shall see the spotless character of Jesus. He who says, “I am holy, I am sinless,” is self-deceived. Some have said this, and some even dare to say, “I am Christ.” To entertain such a thought is blasphemy. Not to see the marked contrast between Christ and ourselves is not to know ourselves. He who does not abhor himself can not understand the meaning of redemption.

---

[:"blue"] Is she talking about a born again person? or someone who only admire His character but has not made any commitment to Him? If you are not holy, Rob, you better find it quickly, because: [:"red"]"PURSUE.....HOLINESS, without which NO ONE will see the Lord." Heb 12:14 NKJ. [/]

God has a people whom He calls "holy". [:"red"] "To the saints [hagios - holy ones] who are in Ephesus"... Eph 1:1 NKJ. [/] If you have not been sanctified [holified, made holy], I suggest you do it quickly.

No one can claim to be sinless since Adam's fall since everyone except Christ has been conceived & born in sin & has sinned. But the promise is that, [:"red"]"whoever has been born of God does NOT sin, for HIS seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." 1 Jn 3:9 NKJ. "Whoever ABIDES in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him." 1 Jn 3:6 NKJ. [/]

This is one of my major beef about your theology, Rob. You claim to have a savior who can redeem you, buy you back, set you free from sin, and yet you claim the believer remains a slave to sin! Impossible!!! NO ONE can serve two masters! You must forsake one or the other & serve only one or the other. Our God is a jealous God, and cannot countenance any rivals.

You claim to have a savior who can take you out of the muck, but your savior cannot wash the dirt out! The Christ you present is totally & completely powerless. You claim the gospel is your hole-in-one when in fact you have completely bogeyed that one. [/]

Gerry

[Robert]

• Is she talking about a born again person? or someone who only admire His character but has not made any commitment to Him? If you are not holy, Rob, you better find it quickly, because: "PURSUE.....HOLINESS, without which NO ONE will see the Lord." Heb 12:14 NKJ.

  God has a people whom He calls "holy". "To the saints [hagios - holy ones] who are in Ephesus"... Eph 1:1 NKJ. If you have not been sanctified [holified, made holy], I suggest you do it quickly.

Then JASD (the guy who takes up for the Pope) is right...the Pope has a right to be called "His Holiness"!

[Robert]

• "PURSUE.....HOLINESS, without which NO ONE will see the Lord." Heb 12:14 NKJ.

Here's another version: "Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord."[RSV]

The fruit of a person who has accepted the gospel is technically holy if it comes from God and not our self-righteous attempts at gaining heaven. Just like James states, "Faith without deeds" is a dead faith...a sham!

But do not get this confused with actually being holy! We experience growth/fruit! No fruit ever, something's wrong....

Again remember our fruit points to which gospel we have accepted. A perverted gospel produces self-righteous fruit, which will condemn the unbeliever in the judgment. Those depending totally on Christ's doing and dying produce fruit that is free of self-righteousness. Hence the fruit is demonstrative, not meritorious.

• God has a people whom He calls "holy". "To the saints [hagios - holy ones] who are in Ephesus"... Eph 1:1 NKJ. If you have not been sanctified [holified, made holy], I suggest you do it quickly.

We are "Holy" in Christ alone!!! Proof:

Col 1:21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind [you resisted God...even hated him], engaged in evil deeds [living entirely for the flesh], 22 yet He [Jesus] has now reconciled you [where?] in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him [God the Father] holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23 if indeed you continue [in keeping the law? no if you continue] in the faith [which does produce positive fruit] firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

[jasd]

>>(the guy who takes up for the Pope)<<

Though the above will do, as one ought to do right, --the following:

>>Then JASD…<<

will not do! Non, non, forbear...

jasd 12:12 …wherefore thou art adjured, be thou ever mindful that thy name, which is scribed in the books of heaven, be not profaned. v12 It is thy birthright and it is thine anointing whereby the deeds of thy life may be kept that thou shouldest not be found forsaken upon that great day when the righteous, yea, even the holy, --receivest that which pleaseth the Lord to grant --for good, preferring not evil; v12 moreover, shouldest thou be as Esau? who sold that, which it pleased the Lord to give him, --preferring he should have red pottage for his belly, instead? nay, forbid, for whereupon such an evil are his children called Red, that is, Edom.

I must take exception;-) my name is in the diminutive --jasd, --being ever mindful…

Anyway, two things: One sober,

Exodus 22:31 And ye shall be holy men unto me:

and the other, kinda jolly…

"A cowboy walks into a bar in Texas, orders three mugs of beer

and sits in the back room, drinking a sip out of each one in turn.

When he finishes them, he comes back to the bar and orders three

more.

The bartender approaches and tells him, "You know, a mug goes

flat after I draw it so it would taste better if you bought just

one at a time."

The cowboy replies, "Well, you see, I have two brothers. One is

in Australia, the other is in Dublin and I'm in Texas. When we

all left Wyoming, we promised that we'd drink this way to

remember the days we were together. So I drink one for each of

my brothers and one for myself."

The bartender admits that this is a nice custom and leaves it

there. The cowboy becomes a regular in the bar, and always

drinks the same way. He orders three mugs and drinks them in

turn.

One day, he comes in and orders only two mugs!

All the regulars take notice and fall silent. When he comes

back to the bar for the second round, the bartender says,

"I don't want to intrude on your grief, but I wanted to offer my

condolences on your loss."

The cowboy looks puzzled for a moment, then a light dawns

and he laughs. "Oh, no, everybody's just fine," he explains...

"It's just that my wife and I joined the SDAdventist Church and

obviously I had to quit drinking.

Hasn't affected my brothers though."

[Robert]

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Exodus 22:31 And ye shall be holy men unto me:

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Old Covenant demands!

[LifeHiscost]

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I just can't be constantly worried about whether I'm sinning or not, or whether I'm going to be saved or not

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Just wanted to say that the examination of self is most likely similar to the instruction given to Adam and Eve re:

not eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

If Eve had been a little more attentive to walking away from the tree, which was not a difficult task since she was flawless at the time, she probably would have avoided the enticement of the serpent.

BTW, here's something I found most interesting. What do you think of this advice?

[:"blue"] Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, September 28, 1897, paragraph 4

Article Title: Preach the Word

[:"blue"]"Search the Scriptures, and you will find that not a son or daughter of Adam is elected to be saved in disobedience to God's commandments." [/]

Blessings!

[Robert]

Then you will be lost for you are a sinner....You "fall short of God's love!" Who are you kidding?

[LifeHiscost]

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ROBERT said:

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Exodus 22:31 And ye shall be holy men unto me:

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Old Covenant demands!

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Robert, if you recognize that the word 'shall' is interchangeable with the word 'will', it is clear that is a promise for the believer and is entirely consistent with a Father Who gives free will to all His children; past, present , and future. One need only to submit to the power that God gives to those who depend on success through that promised power, for the purpose of making all the requirements of heaven accessible to the weakest of saints.

[:"red"] "....Jesus said, " With people it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God." [/] Mark 10:27 NASB

Keep the faith!

[LifeHiscost]

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ROBERT said:

Then you will be lost for you are a sinner....You "fall short of God's love!" Who are you kidding?

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If you were God's spokesperson, your words would be frightening to me, Robert. As I recall, it is not the healthy whom Jesus came to save, but the sick. Knowing you to recognize that, at least according to the posts you present, you do cause me concern as you evidently do not believe that Jesus has the power to make the sick well.

[:"red"] "And when Jesus heard it, He said to them, Those who are strong and well have no need of a physician, but those who are weak and sick; I came not to call the righteous ones to repentance, but sinners " [/]

Mark 2:17 AMP

[:"red"] "I am the Vine; you are the branches. Whoever lives in Me and I in him bears much (abundant) fruit. However, apart from Me [cut off from vital union with Me] you can do nothing." [/] John 15:5 AMP

[:"red"] "Even the Scriptures say....overwhelming victory is ours through Christ, who loved us." [/] Romans 8:37 NLT

Keep the faith!

[jasd]

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We are "Holy" in Christ alone!!!

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Exodus 22:31 And ye shall be holy men unto me:

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Several things: Did you use “Christ” in the above as Meschiach the Promise(d)? or as the New Testamental [sinless] embodiment?

I thought the Exodus text (though not unique in OT literature) deserved to be placed upon the table for consideration, one reason being… I recall it posited that the Law made no one holy; and,

reading the verses in Exodus 22, which precede the 31st, seems to indicate a holiness by doing -- a whole bunch of things/ordinances! If performing upon ordinances elicited from Gd that the doing of them would make one holy… What then of commitment to the Law? how much more holiness would obtain under that prescription. And,

even yet, how much more holiness obtains --that one should name the name of Jesus? as did JP II, I might add :-o

(sorry, I realize the above finial may be off-thread, --though not off-topic) ;- )

Lastly, per Exodus 22:31, did Gd mean that they “shall be holy men unto me” because they kept His imperatives? or that they “shall be holy men unto me” therefore: They must do (act upon) His imperatives? which, I remind, were ordinances...

Anyway, …not intent upon interjection here, just a remind that I am, as my tag represents, --in the diminutive.

[Gerr]

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ROBERT said:

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Exodus 22:31 And ye shall be holy men unto me:

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Old Covenant demands!

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[:"blue"]But not the New Covenant? Why then would Peter say, "You shall be holy, for I am holy," quoting the OT? [/]

Gerry

[Robert]

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One need only to submit to the power that God gives to those who depend on success through that promised power, for the purpose of making all the requirements of heaven accessible to the weakest of saints.

[:"red"] "....Jesus said, " With people it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God." [/] Mark 10:27 NASB

Keep the faith!

---

Out of context!!!!

23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! 24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God! 25I t is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 26 And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, [if a rich man can't be saved] Who then can be saved? 27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

Jesus isn't teaching a works program!

The disciples were brought up to believe (according to the Torah) that a rich man is a good man blessed of God because of his law obedience. Since Jesus was denying that man can save himself through his law keeping He stated "with men it is impossible, but not with God...."

[Robert]

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Gerry Cabalo said:

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ROBERT said:

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Exodus 22:31 And ye shall be holy men unto me:

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Old Covenant demands!

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[:"blue"]But not the New Covenant? Why then would Peter say, "You shall be holy, for I am holy," quoting the OT? [/]

Gerry

---

Good one, Gerry....

Context: 13 Therefore gird up your minds, be sober, set your hope fully upon the grace that is coming to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Where's our hope...in our works? No! "Upon the grace that is coming to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ."

Does that mean there's no fruit? No:

14 Like obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance, 15 but as he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in all your conduct; 16 since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy".....

Peter is simply quoting from the Old Testament. He isn't introducing the Old Covenant....He is setting before the believer a high calling. He is in no way stating we are Holy!!!! Yes the fruit can be holy (because it comes from God), but we in and of ourselves are not holy.

Rob

[Robert]

Bottom line Gerry is that Holy people do not sin!!!

Ecc 7:20 Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.