wicklunds Posted May 31, 2005 Author Share Posted May 31, 2005 There is also this from here: http://www.adventist.org/beliefs/statements/main_stat24.html A Statement of Confidence in the Spirit of Prophecy We, the delegates assembled in Utrecht for the fifty-sixth session of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists, express praise and thanksgiving to God for His gracious gift of the Spirit of Prophecy. In Revelation 12, John the Revelator identifies the church in the last days as the "remnant . . . which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" (verse 17). We believe that in this brief prophetic picture the Revelator is describing the Seventh-day Adventist Church, which not only keeps "the commandments of God" but has "the testimony of Jesus Christ," which is "the spirit of prophecy" (Revelation 19:10). In the life and ministry of Ellen G White (1827-1915), we see God's promise fulfilled to provide the remnant church with the "spirit of prophecy." Although Ellen G White did not claim the title "prophet," we believe she did the work of a prophet, and more. She said: "My commission embraces the work of a prophet, but it does not end there" (Selected Messages, Book One, p 36); "If others call me by that name [prophetess], I have no controversy with them" (ibid., p 34); "My work includes much more than this name signifies. I regard myself as a messenger, entrusted by the Lord with messages for His people" (ibid., p 36). Ellen G White's chief burden was to direct attention to the Holy Scriptures. She wrote: "Little heed is given to the Bible, and the Lord has given a lesser light to lead men and women to the greater light" (Review and Herald, January 20, 1903). She believed that although her writings are a "lesser light," they are light, and that the source of this light is God. As Seventh-day Adventists, we believe that "in His Word God has committed to men the knowledge necessary for salvation. The Holy Scriptures are to be accepted as an authoritative, infallible revelation of His will. They are the standard of character, the revealer of doctrines, and the test of experience" (The Great Controversy, p 7). We consider the biblical canon closed. However, we also believe, as did Ellen G White's contemporaries, that her writings carry divine authority, both for godly living and for doctrine. Therefore, we recommend: 1) That as a church we seek the power of the Holy Spirit to apply to our lives more fully the inspired counsel contained in the writings of Ellen G White, and 2) That we make increased efforts to publish and circulate these writings throughout the world. Though I do not concur that the canon is closed, I do believe the rest fits the issue at hand. Dennis Quote It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the Papacy. {ST, February 19, 1894 par. 4} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wicklunds Posted May 31, 2005 Author Share Posted May 31, 2005 Quote: Quote: ...SNIP Let Jesus be lifted up, but not at the expense of His own messenger and message....SNIP So to your mind... there are times when Jesus should not be lifted up, but His messenger should be? Or Jesus should only be lifted up if someone deemed by a select few as His messenger is also lifted up? *shakes head* I'm really trying to follow your reasoning on why someone who is definitely human, should be granted the same place as Jesus, Who is both human and Divine. clio If you read the WHOLE post, you will see that what I meanst by that statement was that Jesus reveals HIMSELF through His prophets. That is all that means. Nothing more. And EW does not take Jesus' place. Lets stop with the needless picking Clio!!! Quote It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the Papacy. {ST, February 19, 1894 par. 4} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clio Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Quote: If you read the WHOLE post, you will see that what I meanst by that statement was that Jesus reveals HIMSELF through His prophets. That is all that means. Nothing more. And EW does not take Jesus' place. Lets stop with the needless picking Clio!!! I did read the whole post Dennis. Nowhere did you make that plain. I have not read anything from you that places Jesus above EGW. As long as someone chooses to place a fallible human on an equal footing with Jesus, or even above Him, I will not be silent. Clio Quote A heart where He alone has first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasd Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 wicklunds The manner in which you post steadily improves; you see, sometimes it is fire that allows the amalgam to separate-out the dross. Each believer is a stone or a pillar in the Temple of the Lord having his/her own contributing design or function, as purposed, --from before this (aion) creation of the world. There are those set upon the outer walls of the court, and there are such, as I, howling at the moon that those watchmen on the walls --should not nor ought not --sleep :-o As the Lord purposes, He leads. Addendum: What do you do with the Apocrypha? per the exhortation of its acceptance by EGW? y’know, the third ‘witness’ during the French Revolution? Following… “… I saw that the Apocrypha was the hidden book, and that the wise of these last days should understand it. …” --Manuscript 4, 1850, (A copy of E. G. White's Vision which she had at Oswego, N.Y.) And of its healing specific of smoke from fish offal --curing cataracts, --what will you make of it? and its witness to the two-and-a-half-year journey of the ten Northern Tribes (together with those of the Southern Kingdom carried away before the Babylonian Captivity) through the Caucasus Mountains to emerge on the Eurasian steppes --as ultimately, --Caucasians? or yet, what is to be done when the witness of the manuscripts presently resting upon the seventeen miles of Vatican library bookshelves --are made available to the scholastic community? It is certain there will then be moves toward a new canon… (an ecumenically new Xtianity?) What will happen to the Theological beliefs of the millions of SDAs who (as evidenced by the paucity of numbers that visit the Bible and Theology Board on this forum) prefer ticky-tacky as the armor of Gd? As the Lord purposes, He leads; and if you believe, hang on!… Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; … The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. … And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born? --Yeats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wicklunds Posted May 31, 2005 Author Share Posted May 31, 2005 Quote: Quote: If you read the WHOLE post, you will see that what I meanst by that statement was that Jesus reveals HIMSELF through His prophets. That is all that means. Nothing more. And EW does not take Jesus' place. Lets stop with the needless picking Clio!!! I did read the whole post Dennis. Nowhere did you make that plain. I have not read anything from you that places Jesus above EGW. As long as someone chooses to place a fallible human on an equal footing with Jesus, or even above Him, I will not be silent. Clio And nowhere have I elevated EW above the Lord, for it is impossible to do in quoting her work friend. I will not sit and joust about EW being equal to or greater than Jesus as that was never a part of my post, even if you CHOOSE to see it that way and twist my words to make it seem so. Quote It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the Papacy. {ST, February 19, 1894 par. 4} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wicklunds Posted May 31, 2005 Author Share Posted May 31, 2005 Quote: wicklunds The manner in which you post steadily improves; you see, sometimes it is fire that allows the amalgam to separate-out the dross. Each believer is a stone or a pillar in the Temple of the Lord having his/her own contributing design or function, as purposed, --from before this foundation of the world (aion). There are those set upon the outer walls of the court, and there are such, as I, howling at the moon that those watchmen on the walls --should not nor ought not --sleep :-o As the Lord purposes, He leads. Addendum: What do you do with the Apocrypha? per the exhortation of its acceptance by EGW? y’know, the third ‘witness’ during the French Revolution? Following… “… I saw that the Apocrypha was the hidden book, and that the wise of these last days should understand it. …” --Manuscript 4, 1850 , (A copy of E. G. White's Vision which she had at Oswego, N.Y.) And of its healing specific of smoke from fish offal --curing cataracts, --what will you make of it? and its witness to the two-and-a-half-year journey of the ten Northern Tribes (together with those of the Southern Kingdom carried away before the Babylonian Captivity) through the Caucasus Mountains to emerge on the Eurasian steppes --as ultimately, --Caucasians? or yet, what is to be done when the witness of the manuscripts presently resting upon the seventeen miles of Vatican library bookshelves --are made available to the scholastic community? It is certain there will then be moves toward a new canon… (an ecumenically new Xtianity?) What will happen to the Theological beliefs of the millions of SDAs who (as evidenced by the paucity of numbers that visit the Bible and Theology Board on this forum) prefer ticky-tacky as the armor of Gd? As the Lord purposes, He leads; and if you believe, hang on!… Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; … The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. … And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born? --Yeats I honestly havent considered those portions of her work as of late... I am not sure about the apocrypha... seems likely that when the time is right, the Lord will open the door to the necessary light if it is his will. I, for one, am overwhelmed with the light I possess now. Not sure what to make of your poetic quotes. Should I be able to derive any personal application of them? But thanks for the support...I think..? Dennis Quote It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the Papacy. {ST, February 19, 1894 par. 4} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wicklunds Posted May 31, 2005 Author Share Posted May 31, 2005 Quote: Yet, Dennis, you do the very same thing... I suppose I am guilty of doing the opposite (calling my critics Liberal), but only because I have been through what I have. I never saw believers as falling between extremes of Conservative and Liberal before I came to Walla Walla College. If you want to blame someone, don't blame Ellen White or Jesus. Quote: Is not the same fault of which you accuse then found in you? I am only guilty of using the labels that my professors of religion and theology insist I use to describe points of view in papers and assignments. This doesnt mean I hope to one day shed these adjectival nouns. I would like to think of myself as a preservative rather than a conservative if you can swallow that one. Quote: Surely, if we each keep our focus on Jesus, listening for His Voice, and praying earnestly for one another, these disputes will melt away under the guidance and tutelage of the Holy Spirit and our Beloved Jesus. Amen Quote: What purpose the dispute over authority when it all comes from Jesus anyway? Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. All come to the Father through Him and no other. Abba Father is perfectly capable of convicting those who seek Him of any truth which they need to understand. Even if they don't want to be convicted. Because He is the one who calls individuals for a special purpose. Think of the prophets of old. If we say we want You Lord, but we don't care to listen to your prophet, we are in essence saying we are seeking a sign or a wonder in order to believe. We are admitting to the Lord that His humble instrument is not good enough for us. If your eye offends you, pluck it out and throw it away. Quote: For myself, I know I have been convicted of truth much against my desire to be... and when I finally surrendered and said, "Yea Lord," it was sweet indeed for the conflict to be settled. Holy Spirit heart-convicted truth is the kind of truth that when your back is against the wall, you know that you know that you know it's truth. You say you know truth, but you refuse the chastening of the Lord through the counsel of His prophet. Why do you call me Lord, Lord and do not do what I say? The Lord chastens who He loves. Do you see what I mean here? Don't fear to let the Spirit guide you into ALL truth. Dennis Quote It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the Papacy. {ST, February 19, 1894 par. 4} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clio Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Quote: You say you know truth, but you refuse the chastening of the Lord through the counsel of His prophet. Why do you call me Lord, Lord and do not do what I say? The Lord chastens who He loves. Do you see what I mean here? Don't fear to let the Spirit guide you into ALL truth. Dennis Aren't you going just a tad overboard here? You have insufficient information to make that statement about my beliefs and now you are making judgements about my salvation. Are you calling into question the truth Abba Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit have been pleased to rain down in my life? Clio Quote A heart where He alone has first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wicklunds Posted May 31, 2005 Author Share Posted May 31, 2005 Naw, just that you may be a bit recalcitrant against a certain duly-appointed prophet of God for believers in the end-time. You might have some truth, but are you growing into all truth if you disqualify the sacred visions and messages of EW? Something to consider. Where did I make a comment about you being saved or lost in that quote? This is why you misunderstand me Clio. Maybe we could learn to read through several times before a response. Dennis Quote It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the Papacy. {ST, February 19, 1894 par. 4} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clio Posted May 31, 2005 Share Posted May 31, 2005 Quote: Naw, just that you may be a bit recalcitrant against a certain duly-appointed prophet of God for believers in the end-time. You might have some truth, but are you growing into all truth if you disqualify the sacred visions and messages of EW? Something to consider. Where did I make a comment about you being saved or lost in that quote? This is why you misunderstand me Clio. Maybe we could learn to read through several times before a response. Dennis You do not know if I am recalcitrant or not Dennis. I have very carefully refrained from giving any indication one way or the other. I simply choose to focus on Jesus. He forgives me, she doesn't. He loves me, she's dead. He saves me, she doesn't. And you still don't know what credence I place on her. Only that I place MORE on Jesus. Clio Quote A heart where He alone has first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasd Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 >>…for the support...I think..?<< Assuredly. I respect one who --having placed his or her hand to the plow --persists, --although some of the furrows might resemble a serpent’s trail :-) >>…a certain duly-appointed prophet of God for believers in the end-time. …disqualify the sacred visions and messages of EW?<< [ed.] Someone lent me tapes by SDA Leslie Warren (I think it was) in which he stated that there are three Biblical functions, which define a prophet, --none of which, consists in ‘foretellings’… Considering that, all Xtians may attain to prophet-status. Considering also, that almost the entirety of Adventist doctrines have been formulated by others-than-EGW, and for the reason that others of this list may benefit… please expand upon how it is you perceive that EGW should be thought of as more than another worker (though granted, exceedingly gifted) in the fields of the Lord, as you, or as I, might be. In other words, how, in your opinion, is it that she is established --a prophet in the manner that you seem to be putting forward? --Yeats…, Apocalyptic, yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted June 1, 2005 Moderators Share Posted June 1, 2005 Re: " . . .you refuse the chastening of the Lord through the counsel of His prophet." Statements like the above reflect a personalization that goes beyond what we allow here in CA. Be careful. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wicklunds Posted June 1, 2005 Author Share Posted June 1, 2005 Greg, Thank you for your commitment to the enforcment of high standards. I only wish there were more like you willing to take a stand for defending SDA, present truth, and the words of the ordained mouthpiece of God. Dennis Wicklund Quote It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the Papacy. {ST, February 19, 1894 par. 4} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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