Ted Oplinger Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 Unlike Iran, though, North Korea still has a declared war ongoing with the US. The Korean War never ended - the armistice put in place in the 50's only stopped the shooting on both sides...but the war never ended. This is something most Americans simply do not know - the Korean front could erupt and it would not be a "new" war - it would only be a resumption of hostilities in a current war. It is one of the few areas of the world where the US DOES have a moral obligation to be - due to the entanglements that got us in there 60 years ago. Should North Korea attack, it will be without China's blessing this time. While initially the Chinese leadership would love to see a economic competitor get taken down, a militarized Japan and strengthened US presence there in response is definitely NOT desirable by the Chinese. A nuclear exchange over Korea would escalate to a nuclear exchange between China and the US - something neither side really wants. World War IV would be a severe interruption to the movers and shakers of this world to construct their vision of a one-world government. Iran, run by its fundamentalist Shi'a Islam, does not care about starting a nuclear exchange, as the ayatollahs there simply see that as a fast track to their apocalypse and their hopes of a global caliphate. An exchange there would eventually draw Russia and China into a war they really don't want - but they know as well as we that a triumph over US forces there would embolden Islamic forces to take on the other world powers. As for Israel - they have been extremely in their forbearance with both Islamics and the world. Stripped of the media's PR against Israel, the Arabs really have a poor argument for their campaign against Israel - their goal now of seeking another Arab state was previously given to them as an option back in 1948...and they turned it down in favor of a war to eliminate Israel. While neither side is "clean" is this brawl (just like the Serbs and their surrounding cultures), Israel does have a right to exist - and until the Islam nations recognize that right, Israel has the right to defend that existence. Does that mean Israel takes down Iran first? Can't say...but I do know Iran wouldn't mind pulling that trigger first - especially if it can be through a proxy - and get away with it. That should be enough to irritate the politically correct for now.... Blessings, Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClubV12 Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 HC says, "We are on the second and final go around and at vs. 31-36 now that we made it through 43." Thats not what the Church teaches or believes HCH. There is no dual fulfillment of Daniel 11. It doesn't repeat itself with any verse. There are many winds of doctrine blowing on Daniel 11, but the Church has at least established some fundamentals. Your theology is well outside those parameters. Iran using a Proxy for a first strike? Interesting idea. Turkey has nukes, by the way. In fact, Turkey has a very large, well equipped military force that should not be under estimated! But Turkey is allied with NATO, you say? In the same way lots of people go to the Seventh-day Adventist Church and will stop the minute it becomes difficult to continue. Turkey could (and will) turn on NATO in a heart beat when the time is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 HC says,"We are on the second and final go around and at vs. 31-36 now that we made it through 43." Thats not what the Church teaches or believes HCH. There is no dual fulfillment of Daniel 11. It doesn't repeat itself with any verse. There are many winds of doctrine blowing on Daniel 11, but the Church has at least established some fundamentals. Your theology is well outside those parameters. Iran using a Proxy for a first strike? Interesting idea. Turkey has nukes, by the way. In fact, Turkey has a very large, well equipped military force that should not be under estimated! But Turkey is allied with NATO, you say? In the same way lots of people go to the Seventh-day Adventist Church and will stop the minute it becomes difficult to continue. Turkey could (and will) turn on NATO in a heart beat when the time is right. To date, Iran has always worked with proxies in its stabs against Israel. Should Iran actually achieve its goal of nukes, it would not nuke Israel directly, the direct attack would come from either Hamas or Hezbollah. Iran is also pushing to destabilize Jordan, hoping to put its own puppets in power there. That would give Iran another proxy bordering on Israel. Yes, currently, Turkey is a NATO member - a consequence of being participant in the Cold War against the USSR. You are correct - Turkey does have a top-notch military. So does Egypt - courtesy of being non-combatant to Israel since the 70's, the US has completely renovated Egypt's military - it no longer is comprised of the inferior Soviet equipment seen in the '67 and '72 wars, where Egypt's military was embarrassed on the world's stage by the Israelis. I think Turkey is correct to be very hesitant in going toe-to-toe with the Israelis. Israeli intelligence has already found, and is ready to exploit, Turkish weaknesses that come inherent with the NATO set-up. However...it is all a game of balance. Sure, Turkey and Egypt may succeed where in times past, Arabs have failed. A question to ask, though, would be what would that do to the balance of power among all the various Arab factions? In the earlier wars, it was largely a Sunni united front out of Saudi Arabia - the Shi'a countries were largely also-rans tagging along for bragging rights. Now, that is no longer the case, as the Shi'a factions have the capability to wage their own war against Israel. Now, if Iran (being Shi'a) were able to claim the forefront in the war against Israel by its role allying Turkey and Egypt...that would put the royal family of Saudi Arabia in an untenable position in its claim to be the leader of Islam AND keeper of the two most holy sites of Islam. The Saudis are much more concerned with direct competition against the Shi'a power of Iran, currently, than they are with taking Israel off the map. Israel would have to cross Saudi airspace to reach Iran...having jets with Israeli markings crossing Saudi airspace would be a no-no...but jets with Saudi markings that the Saudi government could have plausible deniability on...that's another. Middle east politics make for some VERY strange bedfellows...and some VERY strange twists in the unfolding of end-times prophecy there. Blessings, Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planey Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 World War IV would be a severe interruption So... When did World War III happen? Did I sleep through it or what? (Could have happened - Australia is a long way from anywhere...) Graeme Quote Graeme____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Textus Receptus Posted April 3, 2013 Share Posted April 3, 2013 Read Daniel 8 (I was going to post it; but it's rather long). The angel's interpreation clearly says the two-horned ram is Media-Persia (modern day Iran).The angel also clearly stated twice that the vision concerned the end of time. Speculation (not historical SDA viewpoint) - Could the goat coming out of the west be the United States (or a coalition led by the U.S.)? Note that the word "Greece" in verse 20 could just as accurately be translated as "westerner". Could the broken horn represent the demise of the U.S. as a superpower? Could the four kings be four nations that would replace the U.S (say - China, India, Japan, and Russia and/or the EU)? Speculating on the book of Revelation is treading on dangerous ground. The book of Daniel and Revelation must be addressed together as one explains the other. The events referenced in Revelation and Daniel or not cyclical for it is a precise time prophesy which delinates the world powwers which would rise and then fall. As such, using current events to define this prophesy would violate the chasms which exsist throwing prophesy into a free for all. Greece can not mean "Westerner" since Alexander the Great and his reign fulfilled the prophesy. Remember, the horn split into 4 horns (powers) which we can not dismiss. The four horns represent the four generals who took over parts of the empire when Alexander died. 1. Cassander 2. Seleucus 3. Ptolemy 4. Lysimachus. As such, it is clearly fulfilled. Again, we must not violate the Chasm. Daniel 8:21,22 - The rough goat is the king of Greece; and the great horn that is between his eye is the the first king. Now that broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation. The male goat represents Greece and the big horn is a symbol of the first ruler, Alexander the Great. Josephus records that when Alexander the Great arrived to attack Jerusalem, Jaddua the High Priest went out to meet him and showed him a copy of the book of Daniel, wherein Daniel declared that one of the Greeks should destroy the empire of the Persians "And when the book of Daniel was showed him; wherein Daniel declared that one of the Greeks should destroy the empire of the Persians, he supposed that himself was the person intended; and as he was then glad, he dismissed the multitude for the present, but the next day he called them to him, and bade them ask what favors they pleased of him."(Ant. 11.337): The High Priest understood this fact, so should we. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Originally Posted By: Ted Oplinger World War IV would be a severe interruption So... When did World War III happen? Did I sleep through it or what? (Could have happened - Australia is a long way from anywhere...) Graeme More people are now beginning to regard the Cold War as WWIII... Blessings, Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Korea... Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted April 4, 2013 Share Posted April 4, 2013 Israel - Iran or N Korea? I see North Korea is getting another vote, Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Textus Receptus Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 I say whoever the Jesuits want bombed is who will be next. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 HC says,"We are on the second and final go around and at vs. 31-36 now that we made it through 43." Thats not what the Church teaches or believes HCH. There is no dual fulfillment of Daniel 11. It doesn't repeat itself with any verse. There are many winds of doctrine blowing on Daniel 11, but the Church has at least established some fundamentals. Your theology is well outside those parameters... So you speak for the church? "There is no dual fulfillment of Daniel 11." I attended a lecture presented by the Adventist Theological Society at Southern Sabbath and they did mention that there are some SDA's that do not pay any heed to the writings of Sister White. She clearly states, "The prophecies of the eleventh of Daniel have almost reached their final fulfillment."--RH Nov. 24, 1904 In Letter 103, also written in 1904, she states more clearly: "We have no time to lose. Troublous times are before us. The world is stirred with the spirit of war. Soon the scenes of trouble spoken of in the prophecies will take place. The prophecy in the eleventh of Daniel has nearly reached its complete fulfillment. Much of the history that has taken place in fulfillment of this prophecy will be repeated. In the thirtieth verse a power is spoken of that 'shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.'" [Verses 31-36, quoted.] {13MR 394.1} So on the one hand Ellen White states that verses 31-36 will be repeated, while you declare the churches official position that "There is no dual fulfillment of Daniel 11." EGW also writes, "Revelation is a sealed book, but it is also an opened book. It records marvelous events that are to take place in the last days of this earth's history. The teachings of this book are definite, not mystical and unintelligible. In it the same line of prophecy is taken up as in Daniel. Some prophecies God has repeated, thus showing that importance must be given to them. The Lord does not repeat things that are of no great consequence."--Ms 107, 1897, pp. 1, 2. (Search the Scriptures," undated.) I cannot say with certainty for example that Iran will attack the American fleet on 4/18/2013. But as I read the prophecy it will happen. It will be soon and when Daniel 11:30-36 is repeated to have its final fulfillment, by God's grace I will understand the complete fulfillment and be able to connect the dots showing the prophecy and the appropriate fulfillment in our day. club 12, the more I read the erroneous self-confident things that you type, the more I pray for you. And I wonder; when these things come to pass, will you be able to correct your course in time? And will you be able to undo your evil work or will it be too late for those poor souls that have lingered in the light of your shadow that is interposed between Heaven and earth? But alas, I will have to leave that in God's hands. Daniel is standing in his lot now. And the promise is sure that the wise will understand. Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Originally Posted By: BobRyan Israel - Iran or N Korea? I see North Korea is getting another vote, It boils down to going by sight or by faith. By faith it is to be understood that the image beast is formed in the image of the beast. To understand the image beast we must study the beast. The beast uprooted 3 Arian tribes when it arose from the territory of the Western Roman Empire. The image beast (USA) fell two Islamic tribes (Afghanistan and Iraq) of the ten tribes that divided the Eastern Roman Empire as it is arising. The third Islamic tribe is Iran as I read it. I cannot say without a doubt that Iran will attack the US fleet on 4/18/2013 (I actually thought it would have come long before that) but by faith I know that it will happen. The only question is my faith based on a correct understanding of the word of God? When the events prophesied come to pass, the answer to that question will be self-evident. Regarding N.Korea. Does the Bible mention it specifically? It may be one of those nations rising against nations. We will have to watch. But no matter what N. Korea does, Iran is still going to do that which the prophecy of Daniel states that it will do. And I read the US and Iran as being the conflict described in Daniel 11:30-36 Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 I think April 15 was "precious leader's" birthday. It will be interesting to see how that problem in Boston works out - if they catch a N. Korean agent of "precious leader" then the answer to the question about Iran vs N.K might be N.K. in Christ, Bob Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I think April 15 was "precious leader's" birthday. It will be interesting to see how that problem in Boston works out - if they catch a N. Korean agent of "precious leader" then the answer to the question about Iran vs N.K might be N.K. in Christ, Bob Boston rejoices that the night of terror is ended until the next city takes its place in the infamous roll of terror attacks: Oklahoma City, New York, Boston... When we think it can't get worse, somebody else pops up with a vendetta. But it has not shed any light on Iran or N.K. Good time to Sound the Third Angel's Message before it is to hard to work the work that needs to be done. Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I am of the conviction the work will go to completion, regardless of how we think the work will be "easy" or "too hard". Revelation 18:1-8 - the loud Cry and final warning of the 7 Last Plagues to come - will light up the world with God's glory in a time when it will look humanly impossible to finish the Gospel work. Whenever I see an earthly Goliath, I know God's David, so physically small and weak by comparison, has the victory in hand. David's weapon? A fist-sized, water-shaped ROCK applied to the forehead... Blessings, Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Why is it that that the Seventh Day Adventist Church are free and able to operate in Israel but are not permitted to operate in Iran? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Why is it that that the Seventh Day Adventist Church are free and able to operate in Israel but are not permitted to operate in Iran? Because the Gospel is not allowed to freely operate in Islamic countries. The will change one day... Blessings, Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted April 26, 2013 Members Share Posted April 26, 2013 Actually under Sadam Hussein the Adventist church in Iraq fared very well. I thought that was very interesting. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Yes, the SDA there did. However, Saddam Hussein's reign was not your average Islamic rule, either - he was very, very secular. That is why the Ayatollah Khomeini next door declared war against him in the 1980's...he was an infidel Muslim in the fundamentalist's eyes. That such secular reign was over "traditional Irani territory" was just a bit too much to bear. How is the SDA faring under much more fundamental Islamic rule should be the question asked...and there, if I am not mistaken, we are just as unwelcome as other faiths are. Blessings, Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted April 26, 2013 Members Share Posted April 26, 2013 Yes, the SDA there did. However, Saddam Hussein's reign was not your average Islamic rule, either - he was very, very secular. That is why the Ayatollah Khomeini next door declared war against him in the 1980's...he was an infidel Muslim in the fundamentalist's eyes. That such secular reign was over "traditional Irani territory" was just a bit too much to bear. How is the SDA faring under much more fundamental Islamic rule should be the question asked...and there, if I am not mistaken, we are just as unwelcome as other faiths are. Blessings, No one ever said otherwise, now did they? I believe the churches have been closed down now? But not sure, I have not heard! Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 True - no one said otherwise. As far as I know, what churches we have over there are now underground churches, and have been for a couple of years. Blessings, Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted April 27, 2013 Author Share Posted April 27, 2013 The current Syrian gov't has a strong separation between Church and State... if they fall.. we will loose all we have gained there. The media in North American is selling us on the rebels.. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Oplinger Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Th Ba'athists (current rulers of Syria, and once ruled Iraq) are indeed cruel and poor rulers - but they gave the SDA church a lot of leeway, simply because we pose no threat to their rule...and because we DO have more in common with them than other Christian denominations do... Fundamentalists, though, do not care how much "in common" one has with them - that one is still an infidel. Blessings, Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 I cannot say without a doubt that Iran will attack the US fleet on 4/18/2013 (I actually thought it would have come long before that) but by faith I know that it will happen. Interesting coincidence. Right day 4/18/13 wrong event Christian regards Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 I am of the conviction the work will go to completion, regardless of how we think the work will be "easy" or "too hard". Of course you are right, BUT to loose 50% of the virgins when the Bridegroom arrives is not the desired outcome. We should and could do more. Christian regards Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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