How do I become a Christian?

May 28, 2005

How do you answer someone who asks this question, in practical terms?

May 28, 2005

A Christian is one who surrenders a life of sin and guilt to the cross of Christ and follows after Christ in response to His matchless love and grace.

Sincerely,

Mrs. Gray

May 29, 2005

But a definition is not practical. We can define what a car is, but standing around inside a garage will not turn you into one. I'd like to see this question answered in practical terms myself, because it often seems to me like I'm stuck on a pseudo-spiritual treadmill of the proverbial trying to become a car by standing around in a garage. I am keenly aware that neither going to church, nor listening to Christian music, nor reading the Bible, nor praying can make someone into a Christian.

I'd like to hear the practical terms myself, David ...

May 29, 2005

Dear people,

If it were just a series of steps one could take, the work of Christ would be meaningless. Christ instead comes in and makes the difference - each person's steps from that point on will different.

In the Bible, we see that Saul (later Paul), the thief on the cross, Nicodemus, Thomas, and the woman at the well had different stories of how they became Christians.

A Christian is simply a follower of Christ. The Scriptural requirements are quite simple: Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved. Back then, in their language, there was not a distinction between belief and action. So a Christian will become a follower, and once the belief is there, the path will be different.

If we asked everybody on this forum how they really became a Christian, the stories would all be different. Some may seek to "organize" the process by making it a series of regulated steps, but that would not be in alignment with the Biblical approach.

If you want to be a Christian, believe and follow. It's that simple. Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and you'll get all the other stuff.

Sincerely,

Mrs. Gray

May 29, 2005

How do I become a Christian?

And I would ask, "What motivates you to become a follower of Jesus Christ?"

If he/she replied, "So I can be saved?"

I would reply, "Saved from what?"

If he/she said, "Saved from hell"

I would reply, "Apparently you've been listening to someone's view of Christianity. Would you like to hear what Christ came to save you from?"

Hopefully he/she would say, "yes!"

If so, I would first explain what sin really is!

If he/she accepted that the root of sin is selfishness - our natural born love of self...then I would proceed to show him/her - his/her problem "under law"!

After this I would show him/her that Christ came to save "us" from the curse of the law...."For cursed is he that does not continue to do all that is written in the book of the law." Gal 3:10

If he/she saw their need to be delivered from "under law" I would give the everlasting gospel - "the truth as it is IN CHRIST"....

Rob

May 29, 2005

Well, for me, I wouldn't be a Christian in my adult life IF I didn't accept as fact that Jesus was the Son of God AND was raised back to life from death. The latter fact is the most important evidential evidence that He is/was God in human form on earth. That's pretty impressive to me, who was a surgeon and like all doctors and all people have seen death many times. Jesus said He came to save sinners. Well, I know I'm a sinner----so how can I get 'on His train'?

I like the jailer in Acts 16 when the earthquake broke open the jail freeing Paul and Silas. They nor the other prisoners escaped though apparently they could have had at least some brief freedom. The jailer was so impressed and so humbled the prisoners didn't escape, and, knowing Paul and Silas were imprisoned for spiritual reasons(I presume), he asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

They, Paul and Silas (presumably) said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved----you and your household." A brief discussion about 'the Lord' occurred, and they were "immediately baptized. The whole family was filled with joy, because they had come to BELIEVE in God!!"

That's how one becomes a Christian far as I can tell. How does one continue to be a Christian?--by continuing to believe in the heart, confess with your mouth and live as best as you can in respect and love for God and His Gift of salvation/promise of eternal life, and, show it by your 'good deeds' in your life of 'belief'.

Ben

May 30, 2005

I like alot of what you said Dr. Ben!

To me, becoming a Christian means that I allow God to be in the driver's seat of my life. It means that my opinions come secondary to how he leads and directs my life through the Bible, prayer etc. It means that I can relax in a sense, because God will help me "fight my battles" for me and I no longer have to be completely in "controll". The weird thing about giving God controll of your life, is that there is much more freedom and joy than before. That doesn't work with anything else that I am aware of.

He is awsome!

Taylor

May 30, 2005

What if you offer Him control and He declines (or doesn't take it)? What if the God you are seeking just isn't really there? That is the difficulty I'm running into and it is leaving me feeling like everything I do to try to connect with Him is nothing more than the proverbial "trying to turn myself into a car by standing in a garage" -- that is, trying to turn myself into a Christian by mimicking what Christians do.

I contend there has to be Someone Else on the other end of that line or it is all bogus and futile and for naught!

May 31, 2005

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...SNIP That is the difficulty I'm running into and it is leaving me feeling like everything I do to try to connect with Him is nothing more than the proverbial "trying to turn myself into a car by standing in a garage" -- that is, trying to turn myself into a Christian by mimicking what Christians do. ...SNIP

Feelings are "seated" in the heart.... Jeremiah 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

We cannot trust our feelings. We can trust in the Word of Abba as revealed in the Bible.

It has been for sometime now that I cannot call myself a Christian with all the implications that has come to mean in this society. I am a follower of Jesus. He is my Shepherd and I hear His Voice. When I cannot see past the deceitful feelings of my heart, that tell me I am guilty, guilty, guilty... or that I am all alone... walking in a maze of confusion...I go looking in Psalms or the Words of Jesus in the Gospels, for the Word and the Truth, and the very LIFE in which I need to trust, when my emotions hold sway.

To become then, a believer, means that we must trust the Word of Abba Father as revealed in the Bible, and through the life of Jesus of Nazerath come in the flesh, to be a more sure foundation than anything we have previously held to be true, no matter what that truth might have been.

And according to the Word, all that is necessary is to confess Jesus with our mouth, believe He was raised from death to life by the power of Abba Father, and be baptized of spirit and water.

We can condition our minds to doubt everything. We can also condition our minds and wills to believe. When I begin to doubt Abba's Word, I am reminded 2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Belief is an act of will. It is making a choice for, or against Jesus. Either what He says is true in all things, or nothing He says is true. I choose to believe that Jesus died for me, in my place, as an atonement for my sin. I choose to believe that He was killed, placed in a tomb, and raised from death to life by the Power of the Most High. I have been baptized, and I daily choose these things... renewing my committment to all that it means each time.

I am firmly behind His battle standard because I choose to be. Not because I "became" something. I choose to stand with Jesus. It's that simple.

The steps... how He led me there? totally different.

Clio

May 31, 2005

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Feelings are "seated" in the heart.... Jeremiah 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

We cannot trust our feelings. We can trust in the Word of Abba as revealed in the Bible.

You know what? No offense to Clio or anyone else, but I'm [bleep]-ing sick and tired of hearing this line thrown at me. I'm tired of having my feelings as a human being dismissed and told they are not valid. Christianity is supposed to be a two-way thing: a relationship with Jesus Christ. I don't know about the rest of you but a [bleep]ing relationship involves [bleep]ing feelings, and when a relationship isn't reciprocated, you FEEL that, like it or not, and when you are not connecting with someone, you FEEL THAT TOO, like it or not. There is NO SUCH THING as having a relationship where you feel that no relationship actually exists. When I talk about how I feel I'm talking about what I EXPERIENCE, not just some fleeting emotional sensation (or lack thereof) inside of me. I'm tired of having this [censored] thrown at me like I'm [bleep]ing stupid. It is frustrating the [bleep][bleep] out of me and it makes me want to [bleep]ing kill something because you are all being so [bleep]ing smug and infuriating. Go ahead and SIT on your freaking secret and don't share it, see if I care AT ALL. I'm DONE with all this jank. I mean I am DONE. I am so DONE.

And it is only out of respect for Stan that I'm not writing what I really feel exactly how I really feel it because then he'd just have to delete it anyway as it would not be acceptable for this board. So feel free to insert the ugliest, nastiest swear word you can think of for all the "bleeps" above because that's how ticked off I am right now.

May 31, 2005

-ing sick and tired of hearing this line thrown at me.

No offense taken, nor did I mean to just "throw" the line at you. My apologies if what I posted came across that way. I was answering and did quote from your post.

I will be more careful. My intent was to say I do not believe feelings can be a reliable indicator of Abba Father's attitude towards us. Not that feelings anyone, including you, has are invalid.

I will be the first to step up and say that feelings anyone has, for whatever reasons are valid, and should be accepted and worked through. Pain is pain, regardless of it's source, and every hurting human spirit is worth all compassion and assistance necessary to help heal hurt.

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I don't know about the rest of you but a [bleep]ing relationship involves [bleep]ing feelings, and when a relationship isn't reciprocated, you FEEL that, like it or not, and when you are not connecting with someone, you FEEL THAT TOO, like it or not.

I agree... on a human level. From experience, I do not agree with that statement on a spiritual level. There are too many times when if I relied solely on how I "felt" Abba Father's attitude to be towards me, that I would have been certain I was alone, abandoned, bereft of all salvation, when in fact the opposite was true.

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There is NO SUCH THING as having a relationship where you feel that no relationship actually exists.

That is true... again on a human level. But on a spiritual level, I can have a relationship based on faith that Abba Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit speak only truth, and I can experience them through the prism of the Holy Bible, as long as I believe They speak only truth.

I know this. My relationship with Them encompassed either no feelings, or only loss, abandonment, or sorrowful feelings for years. Yet They did honor Their Word as described in the Bible. It was solely faith, in Scripture and what was revealed of Them there, that was my relationship with Them.

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When I talk about how I feel I'm talking about what I EXPERIENCE, not just some fleeting emotional sensation (or lack thereof) inside of me.

I agree. I experienced those same emotions of rejection, guilt, certainty of eternal damnation, anger, rage, and pain. Every one of them, spiritually, physically, mentally, emotionally in every way it is possible to feel them. It didn't change the choice I made, which was to believe Jesus 100% when He said He came to save, NOT to condemn the World.

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I'm tired of having this [censored] thrown at me like I'm [bleep]ing stupid. It is frustrating the [bleep][bleep] out of me and it makes me want to [bleep]ing kill something because you are all being so [bleep]ing smug and infuriating.

In no way am I being smug, nor do I think you are stupid. I am not throwing this at you. I am sharing with you the only way I know how, the concept of choosing to believe something even in the face of having zero proof... including emotions... and simply saying, I believe because You say so, Jesus.

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Go ahead and SIT on your freaking secret and don't share it, see if I care AT ALL. I'm DONE with all this jank. I mean I am DONE. I am so DONE.

Nico, no one here is sitting on a secret. Me least of all. I am totally open about what Jesus, Abba Father, and the Holy Spirit have done in my life. I am sharing the trials I walked through, the embarrassing moments as I plead for Him to change ME, not others.

Jesus loves you, Nico. He died so that YOU may live. All you have to do is confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, that Abba Father raised Him from death to life eternal, and be baptized. While the veil of mercy still covers the earth, all is forgiven simply for the asking...and accepting of His forgiveness.

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And it is only out of respect for Stan that I'm not writing what I really feel exactly how I really feel it because then he'd just have to delete it anyway as it would not be acceptable for this board. So feel free to insert the ugliest, nastiest swear word you can think of for all the "bleeps" above because that's how ticked off I am right now.

I do not understand why you are ticked off Nico. You ask for information, and when it is given to you, explode in anger. Nico there is no secret. There is only belief. Belief in the face of no proof at all. You refuse to accept any answer that doesn't include getting to have happy emotions.

The emphasis on emotion is a ploy to get so many off on the wrong track. Our emotions are no reliable barometer of our relationship with Jesus. Whether or not we "feel" His presence, is irrelevant to our relationship with Him on this earth.

During the final days of earth's history, we will stand before a Holy JHVH with no intercessor. The Holy Spirit will be removed from the earth. What will happen to our emotions then? Will we believe our emotions which will tell us we are abandoned, left to the wiles of the enemy? ... or trust in the Word of Jesus that He is with us always, even to the end?

We will have to stand on faith at the end Nico, not emotions. We must learn to do this now, in establishing our relationship with Jesus so that we are not deceived in the final hours of this reality.

Jesus loves you Nico. He promises He is with you always, even unto the end. He loves you and He wants you to be saved. He came, not to condemn, but to save. To save Nico.

Clio

June 1, 2005

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I do not understand why you are ticked off Nico. You ask for information, and when it is given to you, explode in anger. Nico there is no secret. There is only belief. Belief in the face of no proof at all. You refuse to accept any answer that doesn't include getting to have happy emotions.

That is a complete bald-faced LIE and a malicious and false judgment, and I do not accept it as reality. Nor do I accept you stating that, nor do you have any right to judge me that way. It is completely and utterly false. I don't care about "happy emotions" -- I care about reality of experiencing God as opposed to lack of experience or false experience.

When I spoke of feeling like the proverbial "trying to become a car by standing in a garage" it had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with whether I experience "happy" emotions, sad ones, or any emotions at all. It had nothing whatsoever to do with "emotions", OK? [bLEEP] emotions. I don't GIVE A [bLEEP] about them. It had to do with what I am experiencing -- a complete and utter lack of "becoming" a Christian by submerging, immersing, and marinating myself in Christian activity and Christian cultural trappings (church, praise music, fellowship with other Christians, etc.) It had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with my "emotions" or emotional state. One can be a Christian and still experience unhappy emotions.

You obviously have mistaken me for someone else. I'm concerned only with whether I am being/becoming connected with Christ or not, and it isn't happening. Sorry, but having HAD that connection before, I happen to KNOW when it exists and what it is like to have it. Don't feed me that horse puckey about "feelings" and "emotions" because I don't give a [censored] about that, it is completely and utterly irrelevant to what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a connection -- and sorry, yes, I DO know when it exists and when it doesn't, at least for inside of ME and in MY life.

Just like you know when you are drowning because you FEEL the water going into your lungs and you EXPERIENCE yourself flailing about in it unable to stay afloat, one simply cannot avoid any use at all of the word "feel" in describing how one knows something, but that doesn't mean one is focused on emotional states. How DARE you judge me in so despicable, belittling and dismissive a fashion. Just WHO do you think you are??? You know perfectly well AS I CLEARLY DEFINED IT that my anger came from having that tiresome [censored] shoved down my throat YET AGAIN and had nothing to do with "being given information" NOR was it simply "exploding in anger" for no reason. I had, and have, PLENTY of reason. Moreover, it isn't even anger so much as frustration because you people won't even freaking LISTEN to what I am saying or take it seriously. You just keep regurgitating the same TOTALLY INAPPLICABLE nonsense about "feelings" just because I can't describe experiencing something without saying "I feel" and then accusing ME when it is YOU who have failed to comprehend what the *%(*#$ I am saying in the first place. You better believe I am frustrated!! Or ANGRY if you prefer that condemnatory word so you can be condemnatory.

Like I said, I've had it. I'm not putting up with the garbage anymore. You try to shove it down my throat it is YOUR FAULT, NOT MINE, if you have to hear back from me on it. Do NOT feed me your toxic waste. Now, if you have something REAL to say about my situation that is APPLICABLE, of course I will be willing to listen and consider it, but I am NOT taking that ABUSE ANY MORE. It has NOTHING to do with emotions or emotional states just because I used the word "feel" to describe an experience. Either deal with the reality of what I'm saying and what I'm going through, or feel free to ignore me -- you don't "owe" me anything -- but don't sit there and feed me a line of INAPPLICABLE, IRRELEVANT JUNK that just ticks me off. It would tick you off too if every time you wanted to discuss the pain in your hand, the doctor insisted the problem was your trick knee instead, when the two are UNRELATED.

June 1, 2005

How to become a Christian according to what I'm being told all the time:

(1) Feel nothing -- feelings are bad, MMMkay?

(2) Feel nothing for God -- feelings don't matter, especially yours

(3) Have no connection to God

(4) Never experience God in your life

(5) Pretend you do have a connection and that experience anyway -- this is called "believing". (*SNORT*)

(6) Proceed accordingly, behave like a Christian should, and don't let on that you're faking it the whole time, that you're empty, miserable, and desperately missing GOD. After all, having God really there in your life apparently doesn't matter. It's pretending to that matters.

(7) As often as possible, encourage and teach others to do likewise, rather than teaching them how to really connect with God which is what they are truly needing, thirsting for, and craving.

(8) When they protest, tell them it's not about how they feel.

(9) When that jank ticks them off, blame them.

(10) Keep lying to yourself till you believe all this is the only One True Way to Become a Christian.

The above is not meant to judge anyone else or anyone else's experience. It is meant to reflect what I feel like I'm being told when I try to seek help and advice/input/counsel on my own spiritual needs. Not that anyone gives a rat's rear, but I wrote it to get it out how frustrating this all is for me, and so some of you -- if any of you care -- can hear how your messages sound to me and to thousands others like me who matter more than I do (in case you think it's JUST me and you don't care whether I live or die).

June 1, 2005

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That is a complete bald-faced LIE and a malicious and false judgment, and I do not accept it as reality. Nor do I accept you stating that, nor do you have any right to judge me that way. It is completely and utterly false. I don't care about "happy emotions" -- I care about

reality of experiencing God as opposed to lack of experience or false experience.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I have been only honest with you regarding my experience Nico.

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When I spoke of feeling like the proverbial "trying to become a car by standing in a garage" it had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with whether I experience "happy" emotions, sad ones, or any emotions at all. It had nothing whatsoever to do with "emotions", OK? [bLEEP] emotions. I don't GIVE A [bLEEP] about them. It had to do with what I am experiencing -- a complete and utter lack of "becoming" a Christian by submerging, immersing, and marinating myself in Christian activity and Christian cultural trappings (church, praise music, fellowship with other Christians, etc.) It had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with my "emotions" or emotional state. One can be a Christian and still experience unhappy emotions.

I think that's exactly the same thing I said. I know I still experience negative emotions, and, I don't base my experience on them. I do not believe that "immersing oneself in the Christian activities and trappings" will make anyone anything. It is a culture risen up out of a belief system. In and of itself there is no life-changing power in it.

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You obviously have mistaken me for someone else. I'm concerned only with whether I am being/becoming connected with Christ or not, and it isn't happening. Sorry, but having HAD that connection before, I happen to KNOW when it exists and what it is like to have it. Don't feed me that horse puckey about "feelings" and "emotions" because

I don't give a [censored] about that

,

it is completely and utterly irrelevant to what I'm talking about

. I'm talking about a connection -- and sorry, yes, I DO know when it exists and when it doesn't, at least for inside of ME and in MY life.

I never said you didn't Nico. I said that connection is independent of emotions... at least it has been so for me. It is and has been a faith-only based relationship with occasionally the added blessing of being able to "feel" the connection.

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How DARE you judge me in so despicable, belittling and dismissive a fashion. Just WHO do you think you are??? You know perfectly well AS I CLEARLY DEFINED IT that my anger came from having that tiresome [censored] shoved down my throat YET AGAIN and had nothing to do with "being given information" NOR was it simply "exploding in anger" for no reason. I had, and have, PLENTY of reason. Moreover, it isn't even anger so much as frustration because you people won't even freaking LISTEN to what I am saying or take it seriously. You just keep regurgitating the same TOTALLY INAPPLICABLE nonsense about "feelings" just because I can't describe experiencing something without saying "I feel" and then accusing ME when it is YOU who have failed to comprehend what the *%(*#$ I am saying in the first place. You better believe I am frustrated!! Or ANGRY if you prefer that condemnatory word so you can be condemnatory.

I have not judged you Nico. You are the only one who thinks I am judging you. I can only tell you what it has been for me. I can only continue to tell you that Jesus loves you, that He knows what you are going through, and whether you feel a connection to Him or not, He has one to you. He loves you and He died for you. And even with everything you've told me, I know, because the Bible says so, that He loves you. He came to save you, and not condemn you. I am His, and I do not condemn you.

I have not accused you Nico. I have made statements regarding my own experience. I accept that you are frustrated and angry, and those are valid emotions.

BUT I am not going to lie about my relationship with Jesus or Abba Father. Nor am I going to lie to you. It's not you I have to answer to but Them... and They know my heart, just as They know yours. Jesus knows you are seeking Him, Nico. And in Jeremiah 29:13 He promises that all who seek Him will find Him.

I can only give you the information that I have. And all that I have is a message of faith, trust, and love as it is given in the Bible. For me, the faith portion has to over-rule the emotions, because mine are not trustworthy. I feel abandoned too easily when things don't go well.

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You try to shove it down my throat it is YOUR FAULT, NOT MINE, if you have to hear back from me on it.

I'm not trying to shove anything down your throat Nico. I'm sharing my experience and the way something extremely subjective appeared to me.

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Do NOT feed me your toxic waste. Now, if you have something REAL to say about my situation that is APPLICABLE, of course I will be willing to listen and consider it, but I am NOT taking that ABUSE ANY MORE.

There is nothing toxic about Jesus and His loving you. There is nothing toxic about a belief and faith in things unseen in the absence of proof. I have not abused you in any way.

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It has NOTHING to do with emotions or emotional states just because I used the word "feel" to describe an experience.

Then, what does it have to do with Nico? Almost everything I've seen you write about has dealt with emotions and mostly the negative ones... What is it that I'm not understanding? Jesus loves you, He wants to heal your hurts, He came to save, not to condemn you... and whatever He wants for you is what I want for you.

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Either deal with the reality of what I'm saying and what I'm going through, or feel free to ignore me -- you don't "owe" me anything -- but don't sit there and feed me a line of INAPPLICABLE, IRRELEVANT JUNK that just ticks me off. It would tick you off too if every time you wanted to discuss the pain in your hand, the doctor insisted the problem was your trick knee instead, when the two are UNRELATED.

Nico, having a connection with Jesus based on faith is not irrelevant or inapplicable to what you have described so far. A relationship with Jesus, Who loves you with a safe, forever love, that is always healing and never hurting is always applicable.

We are healed through His Blood. You understand about blood, I know you do. We are healed through His Blood. Isaiah 53:5 But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. and 1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Jesus loves you, Nico. Enough that He shed His Blood for you. There is no condemnation in Him, nor is there any in me, for you. The veil of mercy from the Sacrifice of the Lamb still covers the earth, and all may still ask for and receive forgiveness and a covenant relationship with Jesus and Abba Father. They love you Nico.

I'm sorry that I seem to be so dense and not understanding what the situation really is. I'm trying Nico, and I continue in prayer for you.

Clio

June 1, 2005

Look, I am NOT going to sit here and argue with you over what is essentially mine to state. You are wavering, prevaricating, and pretending innocence and I will not accept it, and you WILL hear back from me on it.

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I'm sorry you feel that way. I have been only honest with you regarding my experience Nico.

WRONG. You were not speaking of YOUR experience when you made those statements. You were speaking of MINE.

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I never said you didn't Nico. I said that connection is independent of emotions... at least it has been so for me. It is and has been a faith-only based relationship with occasionally the added blessing of being able to "feel" the connection.

And I'm saying there is a real connection that can be experienced and felt that is separate from one's emotional state. One can be happy or sad, frustrated or content, and still experience that connection. You are the one refusing to listen to what I am saying and insisting that I am making it out to be emotional when I am NOT.

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I have not judged you Nico. You are the only one who thinks I am judging you.

WRONG. You judged me as being someone who "won't accept any answer unless it means having happy emotions". You were wrong, and you need to admit it instead of prevaricating and waffling and pretending you don't know what I'm referring to.

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I can only tell you what it has been for me.

Correct. You CANNOT PRESUME to tell me how it will be for ME. NOR can you presume to tell me HOW I feel and WHAT I think.

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I have not accused you Nico. I have made statements regarding my own experience.

WRONG. You accused me of what I noted above, and your statement was completely false and I demand you acknowledge it as such where I am concerned. If you wish to state that YOU have a problem with "any answer that does not let you have happy emotions" then YOU may feel free to state as much about YOU. But you have NO RIGHT WHATSOEVER to PRESUME to state that this is how **I** feel, think, or operate.

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BUT I am not going to lie about my relationship with Jesus or Abba Father. Nor am I going to lie to you.

Totally freaking irrelevant. No one has asked you to lie about anything.

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I'm not trying to shove anything down your throat Nico. I'm sharing my experience and the way something extremely subjective appeared to me.

Then make statements about YOUR experience, do NOT PRESUME to judge MINE or make statements about what **I** supposedly think or feel. that is NOT sharing YOUR experience but making judgments on MINE and THAT IS WHAT YOU DID WHETHER YOU ADMIT IT OR NOT.

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Do NOT feed me your toxic waste. Now, if you have something REAL to say about my situation that is APPLICABLE, of course I will be willing to listen and consider it, but I am NOT taking that ABUSE ANY MORE.

There is nothing toxic about Jesus and His loving you. There is nothing toxic about a belief and faith in things unseen in the absence of proof. I have not abused you in any way.

You know perfectly well what you did -- I spelled it out 15 different times at least. Stop playing games. You know perfectly well I was not talking about Jesus or His love when I mentioned toxic waste. I was talking about your stupid, irrelevant, LYING statement about ME that was totally FALSE AND A LIE. Not to mention the garbage about "happy emotions". [bLEEP] THAT JANK.

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Then, what does it have to do with Nico? Almost everything I've seen you write about has dealt with emotions and mostly the negative ones... What is it that I'm not understanding?

That the connection with God is not dependent upon emotional states and it is the connection I am seeking, not some particular emotional state. When I write about negative emotions it has nothing to do with that except that it is the natural result and fallout from not having that connection -- of COURSE I'm going to feel unhappy as a result. What I'm saying is that what I want is the CONNECTION, whether I feel "happy" or not is IRRELEVANT.

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I'm sorry that I seem to be so dense and not understanding what the situation really is.

If you really care to know, then just LISTEN to what I am SAYING, NOT to what you want to turn it into or make it out to be. If you don't care to know, then FINE, but don't DO ME LIKE THIS if that's the case. Just ignore me.

June 1, 2005

p.s. - I suggest we take this off the thread and either into email or private messages from this point on. Maybe get Stan to move those posts or something, this isn't stuff everyone needs to be reading.

June 1, 2005