Moderators John317 Posted October 27, 2012 Moderators Share Posted October 27, 2012 Please watch the videos (at least one of them) and then post your thoughts or ask questions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1gp9osPTWo&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKeQ0i3fxw4&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhk0ffSzcvA&feature=youtu.be http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAQmTYWgg2Y&feature=relmfu If anyone wants to post a link to a video favoring spiritual formation, please feel free to do it. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted October 27, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 27, 2012 1) Experience in spiritual formation of student at Oakwood University: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQNZqV34WBY&feature=related 2) 3abn discussion on spiritual formation and contemplative prayer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozl_sUM9djI&feature=related 3) Spiritualism and the Seduction of Seventh-day Adventists-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmxIjSNxxOE&feature=related Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted October 27, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 27, 2012 Are any of those videos helpful in understanding spiritual formation and the problem they pose for the church? Or do you think any of them-- or perhaps all of them-- give an invalid analysis of spiritual formation? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 I am concerned about the mystical elements of "spiritual formation." Rick Foster said no who "goes into the silence" can come out of - save by miracle. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted October 28, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 28, 2012 What is the "silence"? How do people attain or arrive at this "silence"? I think I know but I am interested in what you think. Back in 1968-1973, I was very interested in Eastern religions, especially Taoism and Buddhism. I used to study various Eastern scriptures and attend meetings in San Francisco where we would chant and listen to people's testimonies about the benifits of chanting and meditation. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted October 28, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 28, 2012 Here's what one web-site on Buddhism has to say about "Nirvana," which some people find through chanting and meditation: Quote: So how do you reach Nirvana or enlightenment? In Buddhism, enlightenment can be explained as the liberation from our thoughts. Instead of being our thoughts, we shift perspective to watching our thoughts-we are observing our thoughts without identifying with our thoughts. This is the liberation from thought identification to thought observation, and this is what it means for the brain to get out of its own way. Beyond the brain and its thoughts we experience that we are still there, and this experience is liberation-the experience of our true nature. To explain this, a mirror is often used as a metaphor for the mind, or consciousness. Our mind is an empty mirror in which thoughts occur as reflections. We are the mirror. Our thoughts, as reflections in the mirror, are our subjective self, or ego. By observing our thoughts we can see that these reflections come and go in the mirror, but when we watch closely we find something behind these reflections that is clear and stable. This is the mirror-our true nature. Knowing our true identity, we can observe the reflections as they change from pleasant to unpleasant thoughts and back again, but since we no longer identify with the reflections we have now become liberated from them. This simply means that we are no longer controlled by our thoughts. We now control our thoughts, and can select positive and happy thoughts, instead of negative and unhappy thoughts. This is enlightenment and freedom from our thoughts, which leads us to the essence of our nature. This was what the Buddha taught, and all his 84,000 teachings can all be condensed into one line: Recognize your essence. Source: http://ezinearticles.com/?Buddhism---Nirvana---How-Do-You-Reach-Nirvana?&id=2332049 Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted October 28, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 28, 2012 I would really like to hear from SDAs who favor "spiritual formation" and also from students or former students in our universities who've been through the spiritual formation classes. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Thanks so much for those addresses, John317. I'm neither a formal student or professional Bible worker. Only a fallible disciple of Christ. However I believe this statement "My grace is sufficient for thee", is most highly fulfilled by constant contact with the Word and reliance upon the Holy Spirit as promised by Jesus for the safety of His own. Security and assurance are without permanent failure when one submits their will to God's plan of salvation and accepts His will above their own. The danger of the Alpha and the Omega is something to be feared only as one believes themselves able to fight their own battles, instead of relinquishing themselves over to the King of kings. "Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand."Ephesians 6:11-13 NKJV God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 THE second chapter of our Manual For Ministers, is called Spiritual Formation. This topic, which is in a lot of places, would be like saying DON'T DO VEGETARIANISM, because Wicca's promote it. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 *Correction. Rick Howard - not Rick Foster. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted October 28, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 28, 2012 In this discussion, "spiritual formation" is being used in the sense that we find it in the videos that I posted, such as the discussion on 3abn or the interview with the student from Oakwood University. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQNZqV34WBY&feature=related What is President Ted Wilson warning the church about in his sermon? Is he correct? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted October 28, 2012 Administrators Share Posted October 28, 2012 There is enough material in the Bible about the spiritual walk to keep me busy! I have a feeling that some people's Christianity is lacking some vitality, otherwise why would they be looking for more? Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted October 28, 2012 Administrators Share Posted October 28, 2012 Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted October 28, 2012 Members Share Posted October 28, 2012 Interesting. I posted that very interview with the former Oakwood student quite some time ago - and I got royally slammed here on C/A. I still think the "spiritual formation" movement in the Adventist church is alarming... (along with other wacko ideas, such as using reflexology, reiki, and other "energy" healing practices garnered from New Age thinking) But, I really don't care anymore about the status of the Adventist church... people are going to do what they *want* to do, regardless of the consequences.. (typed as I eat a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup)... :D Quote Pam      Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted October 28, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 28, 2012 Yes, I agree with you. But the question here is whether the videos that I posted are telling the truth about "spiritual formation." Are they accurate descriptions of what's going on in the SDA church and on our college campuses? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted October 28, 2012 Moderators Share Posted October 28, 2012 Is there any truth to the charge that SF has gotten into some of our large churches and even seminary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon1 Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 ...and even seminary? I think you'll find the seminaries are the source of the trouble. Try watching the Oakwood College testimony. Or you could check out Behind the Door by Jim Arrabito: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPbSYNt77KA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Yes, it is true, Gerry. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted October 29, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 29, 2012 Is there any truth to the charge that SF has gotten into some of our large churches and even seminary? That is the very question this discussion is designed to investigate and answer. But to do it, we will need to stay on topic. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted October 29, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 29, 2012 THE second chapter of our Manual For Ministers, is called Spiritual Formation. This topic, which is in a lot of places, would be like saying DON'T DO VEGETARIANISM, because Wicca's promote it. This discussion is about the same "spiritual formation" which John Bradshaw, Mark Finley and other prominent SDAs warn us against in the following video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKeQ0i3fxw4&feature=related What is that video talking about and is it true? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted October 29, 2012 Administrators Share Posted October 29, 2012 THE second chapter of our Manual For Ministers, is called Spiritual Formation. Stan, could you please share a synopsis of what the second chapter in our Manual for Ministers says concerning Spiritual Formation? Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Here is a photo I did of this earlier. This is from Manual for Minsters, an Adventist publication. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Speaking against Spiritual Formation, is one of the best fundraising goals we have today. It is a very misused phrase. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibs Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I'm afraid we don't need to go out of the Bible and the SOP for Spiritual formation. Our Spiritual Formation must be around Jesus Christ and Him Only, He only is the safe guide. Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. oh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. Quote A Freeman In Jesus Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted October 29, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted October 29, 2012 In the videos posted, are Mark Finley, John Bradshaw, and Ted Wilson, etc., talking about the second chapter of the Manual for Ministers? What are the people in those videos I posted talking about? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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