Stan Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 How much of it has infiltrated Adventism? Good question. It reminds me of when I was becoming and Adventist and I heard so many stories that were spread by cassettes on how Speaking in Tongues had done the same. Even on video spam that was going around showed mass hysteria of a group speaking in tongues, turns out the John Osborne had actually taken a clip of a Pentecostal Church and misrepresented that as an Adventist Group. I especially remember the Cassette tape we listened to talk about 'entire Churches' in California had 'fallen'. Can anyone find those? I was told recently that a Conference President had told their ministers that they all had to do this SF prayer or they would be terminated. Ever try to make or asked a group of Adventist Clergy to all do something, they are not gullible people, trust me there. If this was the huge issue some proclaim it to be, where are all these people and what are their fruits? HOWEVER it is a good way to raise funds. Paranoia has been presented, and it has hijacked the Church in so many area when we should be proclaiming the soon coming return of our Lord. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted November 3, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted November 3, 2012 ... I am not sure... But ask for it at your nearby ABC. We get it from Ingram (distributor) The CEB is an interesting translation with parts that are very well done, such as 1 Cor. 10: 9-- 9 Let’s not test Christ, like some of them did, and were killed by the snakes. And: Phil 2:6, 7-- Though he was in the form of God, he did not consider being equal with God something to exploit. 7 But he emptied himself by taking the form of a slave and by becoming like human beings. When he found himself in the form of a human, Also this: 1 Cor 6: 9-- Don’t you know that people who are unjust won’t inherit God’s kingdom? Don’t be deceived. Those who are sexually immoral, those who worship false gods, adulterers, both participants in same-sex intercourse,[a] 10 thieves, the greedy, drunks, abusive people, and swindlers won’t inherit God’s kingdom. 11 That is what some of you used to be! But you were washed clean, you were made holy to God, and you were made right with God in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. Yet it also contains verses that are not accurately translated. For instance, Isaiah 8: 19, 20-- 19 If they say to you: “Consult the ghosts and the spirits that chirp and mutter. (Shouldn’t a people consult its gods?) Consult the dead on behalf of the living 20 for instruction and for testimony”—they will surely say such things, but they will never see the dawn. And: Hebrews 9: 12-- He entered the holy of holies [Greek has "sanctuary" or "holy places"] once for all by his own blood, not by the blood of goats or calves, securing our deliverance for all time. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators John317 Posted November 3, 2012 Author Moderators Share Posted November 3, 2012 How much of it has infiltrated Adventism? Good question. It reminds me of when I was becoming and Adventist and I heard so many stories that were spread by cassettes on how Speaking in Tongues had done the same. ...If this was the huge issue some proclaim it to be, where are all these people and what are their fruits? HOWEVER it is a good way to raise funds. Paranoia has been presented, and it has hijacked the Church in so many area when we should be proclaiming the soon coming return of our Lord. I take it, then, (Am I right?)that your answer is that SF based on Mysticism hasn't entered into the Seventh-day Adventist Church at all-- or at least not to any extent that makes it worth talking about or that should make it a legitimate cause of concern within the church. I personally have not seen any evidence of the kind of SF that president Wilson and others on the videos have talked about, but then I realize I can't possibly see everything that goes on in the church. I have to depend on other people to inform me of what's happening in the church on a world-wide scale. That's really the whole purpose of this discussion. I didn't start the thread with my mind already made up about the topic. But I do find it difficult to believe that all of these people whom I respect and admire as leaders in our church are talking & writing about something that is either unimportant, non-existent, or merely the result of paranoia. When it comes to proclaiming the soon return of Christ, I see no conflict with talking about the dangers of unbiblical SF and talking about Christ's coming for His church. In fact, most of the videos I posted make the case that Christ's soon coming makes it necessary for SDAs to be warned against accepting dangerous teachings such as those found in some kinds of spiritual formation. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted November 3, 2012 Administrators Share Posted November 3, 2012 Ironically, the paranoia on this has a certain mystical quality about it... (Look up the definition...) Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 John, I am sure more than I know exist. AND I do know of a couple, second hand info, do what you may with that comment Just like their are ordained Gay Ministers, not enough to panic about or yell and scream for a witchhunt on them. Practicing or not? Don't know not going to ask. I find the whole gay male sex act repugnant to even think about. The two that I know, are making a significant difference. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted November 3, 2012 Administrators Share Posted November 3, 2012 God is quite masterful at successfully using the wrong tool for the right job. And we seem very adept at ineptly using the right tool for the wrong job... Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 God is quite masterful at successfully using the wrong tool for the right job. And we seem very adept at ineptly using the right tool for the wrong job... Well said! Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Quote: But I do find it difficult to believe that all of these people whom I respect and admire as leaders in our church are talking & writing about something that is either unimportant, non-existent, or merely the result of paranoia. We may be able to stand firm ourselves in a knowledge of Biblical Truth as a result of our own study of the Scripture. However to watch ungodly conduct and complacently see it encroach further and further into the mainstream of church activity without any word of caution to those who wish to follow that path, is to risk becoming partly responsible for their possible eventual repudiation of God's plan of salvation, which plan is to eschew evil wherever it may manifest itself. No amount of good deeds by me, will make up for where I have destroyed another's clear view of the Holiness of God. If it is done ignorantly or purposefully, repentance and asking for God's direction of how best to relate and reveal, is something only accomplished by dependance on the Holy Spirit's guidance. May God have mercy on our souls. God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rectina Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I am concerned about the mystical elements of "spiritual formation." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted November 10, 2012 Members Share Posted November 10, 2012 I am concerned about the mystical elements of "spiritual formation." me, too Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 There are a lot of mystical elements in the Vegetarian Community. Should we avoid being one of them? Spiritual Formation is so varied. As I said before , the 2nd Chapter of manual for ministers in adventism is all about the benefits of spiritual formation. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 We can find extremes in every thing. We can find issues with most everything in life. I gave up looking for and worry about all those elements both with in the church and with out the church a long time ago. It certainly changed my attitude from being afraid to being assured...jus sayin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted November 10, 2012 Members Share Posted November 10, 2012 I'm not afraid...I'm informed. Quote: Spiritual Formation is so varied. It's the "variance" that's a problem, imho. Quote: There are a lot of mystical elements in the Vegetarian Community. Should we avoid being one of them? That's comparing apples and oranges. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted November 10, 2012 Administrators Share Posted November 10, 2012 ... or maybe apples and carrots... Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted November 10, 2012 Members Share Posted November 10, 2012 ... or maybe apples and carrots... Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daryl Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 What about the page in Jon Dybdhal's book "Hunger" where he describes how "Breath Prayer" works? That whole page is full of mysticism. Quote In His Love, Mercy & Grace Daryl http://www.maritime-sda-online.com https://www.pugwashsdachurch.org/media?page=1&sort_by=Date&is_ascending=0&search=&tags=&presenter= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I agree, Daryl. The real issue is the emergence of a dual hermeneutic among the Adventist church. Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted December 9, 2012 Administrators Share Posted December 9, 2012 one local SDA church here held "spiritual formation" classes, but had to change the name of the group because thy got so much flack over it. So they named it spiritual development. I spoke with a friend who went through it, and he seemed to have an amazing experience of learning to appreciate the sacrificial love of Christ, and he seemed far more connected to his spirituality on not only an intellectual level but total heart and emotional level. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted December 9, 2012 Administrators Share Posted December 9, 2012 A family member is an SDA minister, when i opened up the topic of the Spiritual Formation Movement,he said, What is wrong with wanting to get closer to God. He was unhappy the leaders of the SFM in the SDA church are feeling attacked. Whenever we find ways to be comfortable with sinful nature, to make peace with our fallen nature, rather than setting a divine boundary we are at risk. I would rather remain uncomfortable with the world, and with my self. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Quote: Paranoia has been presented, and it has hijacked the Church in so many area when we should be proclaiming the soon coming return of our Lord. Let those who expect to stay here on this earth spend their time and effort to building it up, while those who are called to spread the gospel, do what they are called to do. For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, Philippians 3:20 NKJV God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Derek Morris was involved in it until he discovered that it was not a good thing. Then he stopped teaching it and recanted his former involvement. Admissions against interest are powerful. He further stated that many decent people have only seen the good side of it and defend it without knowing its dark side. He could be right. g Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted December 11, 2012 Administrators Share Posted December 11, 2012 The book Hunger is not based in principles expressed in SOP. i find the "Desire of Ages", and 'Steps to Christ" inexhaustible sources of inspiration, depth, and material to deepen my walk with God. I have not found the spiritual formation material as made known in the emergent church movement useful. I hear it has torn the Baptist world apart. i live in an SDA ghetto, and find lots of members are very involved in the SFM of satisfying themselves with exercises calculated to spiritually alter ones mood or consciousness. When we are living by faith we cannot afford to attach our experience to a set of feelings or sensations of God's presence. Those are too changeable. It is fixing our focus within. I need to look out and above myself. It is the Promises and the wonderful Character of God that are unchanging. The book "God Calling" has lots of phenomenal fluff. The book "Jesus calling" is a favorite of so many SDA in my conference, it was given away as a free gift to women attending the women's seminars, and it is also very based in phenomena. The Spiritual life may have an element of mundanaity, it is humble and ordinary, rather then glorious and enthralling. Peaceful, and full of personal challenges to learn and grow and dare more and more for God. Not in a self exercised way, but in a learning way. It is not about us and how we feel, it is about God and how God is in wisdom and mercy and deep interest for every person. When we drop out the focus on beholding and making known the Character of God for his sake to others, then we can so easily fall into discontent and seek a more fulfilling experience to satisfy ourselves and gratify ourselves. It is not paranoia, the conflict over each life is real. "The work of righteousness shall be peace". Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rose_bowen Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Spiritual Formation is mystical spiritism promoted and taught by Ignatius Loyola, and it is foundational in the Jesuit philosophy. Read Great Controversy and see the history of Loyola and contrast that with his contemporary, another monk named Martin Luther. One rediscovered righteousness by faith and started the Reformation, the other refused to allow Jesus to atone for his sins and embarked on a program of righteousness by works that ultimately led to encounters with evil spirits for counsel. Knowing that brief synopsis, why should our ministers or our members be digging through the dumpsters of spiritism to find an encounter with God? There is so much we need to learn from the Bible itself, we don't need a breath prayer or a labyrinth or a chant to get us closer to Him. We have a lengthy history of avoiding the simple thus saith the Lord in favor or something that feels exciting. Quote Web developer at Global Exposures since 1996. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted December 20, 2012 Administrators Share Posted December 20, 2012 Because they are not satisfying themselves with a walk with Jesus through the Word of God, and as reiterated in Desire of Ages and Steps to Christ. They have a lingering hunger and have found satisfaction drinking from the fountains that have their origins in the darkness of this world. it is heart breaking, and deceptive. they have certainly reached out for insights in the writings of those who are opposed to "the law and the testimony". Let God be true, and let every man be a liar. debjm Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 Spiritual Formation is mystical spiritism promoted and taught by Ignatius Loyola, and it is foundational in the Jesuit philosophy. Read Great Controversy and see the history of Loyola and contrast that with his contemporary, another monk named Martin Luther. One rediscovered righteousness by faith and started the Reformation, the other refused to allow Jesus to atone for his sins and embarked on a program of righteousness by works that ultimately led to encounters with evil spirits for counsel. Knowing that brief synopsis, why should our ministers or our members be digging through the dumpsters of spiritism to find an encounter with God? There is so much we need to learn from the Bible itself, we don't need a breath prayer or a labyrinth or a chant to get us closer to Him. We have a lengthy history of avoiding the simple thus saith the Lord in favor or something that feels exciting. Can you give some examples of how it is so "mystical"? And where in the Great Controversy EGW speaks against it? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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