Robert Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 I'm suggesting that you have free will, and a choice to make. Being imperfect doesn't change that. But if you have Christ why aren't you perfect in your walk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 But if you have Christ why aren't you perfect in your walk? I don't have Christ if I haven't allowed him into my life. You keep wanting to leave that part out for some reason. You have to let Him in. And if you let Him in, He's going to proceed with making changes. I know this much for a fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 He's going to proceed with making changes. Right, in your mind/heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Originally Posted By: RLH He's going to proceed with making changes. Right, in your mind/heart. Exactly. And what do you think guides/directs every one of your actions? That's right, your mind/heart. You can't separate the two. You can't have a pure heart, but unclean hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Exactly. And what do you think guides/directs every one of your actions? That's right, your mind/heart. But your converted mind (what Paul calls "the law of my mind") is no match for "the law of sin" (our bent to self). It takes "the law of the Spirit" to defeat "the law of sin" as temptation comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted December 9, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 9, 2012 Originally Posted By: Robert Are any of you keeping the outward rules (i.e., don't kill, steal, commit adultery, etc...), but failing to keep the spirit of the law? If so, there's hope because "in Christ" there is no condemnation. Outward rule: Matt 5:27 You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.' Spiritual rule: 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart (mind). Since according to you, we can only keep the outward rule and not the spiritual rule, and since we cannot live Christ's life, and since according to you the man of Rom 7 who says, "For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want," Rom 7:19 NASB has the law written in his heart and is spiritual, a serial killer can keep on killing and is still saved, like the man of Rom 7:19? A fornicator can still practice fornicating and like the man of Rom 7, is still saved? A thief can keep on practicing his trade like the man of Rom 7 and still remains saved? Well, you get the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted December 9, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 9, 2012 It takes "the law of the Spirit" to defeat "the law of sin" as temptation comes. Soooo, can believers have the "the law of the Spirit" to defeat "the law of sin"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Originally Posted By: Robert It takes "the law of the Spirit" to defeat "the law of sin" as temptation comes. Soooo, can believers have the "the law of the Spirit" to defeat "the law of sin"? Not if they are not resting in Christ....I doubt many SDA are resting...they are busy working. Hence my charge of legalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Since according to you, we can only keep the outward rule and not the spiritual rule, and since we cannot live Christ's life... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted December 10, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 10, 2012 Gerry: Soooo, can believers have the "the law of the Spirit" to defeat "the law of sin"? Robert: Not if they are not resting in Christ....I doubt many SDA are resting...they are busy working. Hence my charge of legalism. Well, isn't that what God through Paul prescribed? "WORK OUT your OWN SALVATION with fear and trembling, FOR IT IS GOD WHO WORKS IN YOU, BOTH TO WILL AND TO WORK FOR HIS GOOD PLEASURE," Phil 2:12-13 ESV. So for those who are resting in Christ, you are saying then that IT IS POSSIBLE to stop the works of the flesh. My question to you then is - is the man of Rom 7 resting in Christ? My problem with your position is what the Apostle James describes - all faith and no work. As soon as you hear the word work, you start spraying everything with legalism. As John says, the proof of our knowing Him is in our obedience to His commandments. Of the two sons in Christ's parable, who did his father's will? the one who said "I go" but didn't, or the one who said "I will not" but went anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted December 10, 2012 Moderators Share Posted December 10, 2012 Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo Since according to you, we can only keep the outward rule and not the spiritual rule, and since we cannot live Christ's life... Where did I say that? When I say spiritual rule I mean rules that are not written in stone. The spirituality of the law goes beyond 10 brief commandments. In fact anything outside of agape is sin. Are you telling me that everything you do has its roots in agape? Well, you just said it again! You are saying that because everything we do are not all rooted in agape love and therefore sinful. Whenever the obedience is brought up, almost invariably you ask, "are you living Christ's life?" Quote: 1prac•tice also prac•tise \ˈprak-təs\ verb prac•ticed also prac•tised; prac•tic•ing also prac•tis•ing [Middle English practisen, from Middle French practiser, from Medieval Latin practizare, alteration of practicare, from practica practice, noun, from Late Latin practice, from Greek praktikē, from feminine of praktikos] verb transitive 14th century 1 a : CARRY OUT, APPLY 〈practice what you preach〉 b : to do or perform often, customarily, or habitually 〈practice politeness〉 c : to be professionally engaged in 〈practice medicine〉 2 a : to perform or work at repeatedly so as to become proficient 〈practice the act〉 b : to train by repeated exercises 〈practice pupils in penmanship〉 3 obsolete : PLOT verb intransitive 1 : to do repeated exercises for proficiency 2 : to pursue a profession actively 3 archaic : INTRIGUE 4 : to do something customarily Merriam-Webster, I. (2003). Merriam-Webster’s collegiate dictionary. (Eleventh ed.). Springfield, MA: Merriam-Webster, Inc. I may say to myself, "I don't want to steal, kill, fornicate," but if I keep on doing those things my actions belies my words. Notice that what the RSV translates as "I do" is translated by the ESV & NIV as "keep on doing." Why? Because it is present tense - an ongoing action done again and again and again. That's why the NASB renders it "practice." If good intentions were enough, I'd be a multibillionaire! Quote: Gerry: a serial killer can keep on killing and is still saved, like the man of Rom 7:19? Robert: That's the letter of the law. If you hate someone you've murdered them. In fact anything outside agape is sin. I really don't care whether it's the letter or the spirit of the law that the believer is breaking. My question to you is = can one keep on killing/murdering, cheating, fornicating like the man of Rom 7:19 and still be granted entrance into heaven? And you continue to ignore my question - are the foolish virgins & the rocky soil hearers saved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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