CoAspen Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Quote: Further, if one is born again there is no fear. Possibly, all fall down again and make mistakes. It is best to check when it comes to children and young people. A past history may preclude certain church positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Originally Posted By: bonnie I guess I disagree. The SDA has not based this behavior on what others have done or are doing. Very well. Upon what is this SDA behavior based? Not the Bible (which teaches personal & corporate responsibility - and urges accountability.) Not the SOP which advocates the same. Without acknowledging a root cause, denial remains a plausible defense. Solutions won't be sought or found. Is the root cause of the immorality of those that hold positions of authority in our church caused by Catholics? I think it is caused by immoral men that care more for their own positions.Regardless of what the Catholic church does if all those responsible for committing these acts and the ones allowing it,either through knowledge or passing them on elsewhere had to pay the price of their actions they might have a different view. If the offender is quietly moved five times without being called to account and the ones responsible for allowing this would at least lose their jobs and have to pay at least thru their personal finances it might be looked at differently. When the person commits abuse of a child faces a prison cell and the conference president that sat back,knew and did nothing shares a cell next to him,the powers that be would have a much different outlook Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted November 12, 2012 Moderators Share Posted November 12, 2012 Explain me, pastor? Not sure what you mean. Many pastors have NEVER had a background check for their work with the church. I have for other agencies I've worked for but not for the church. Its unfortunate but true. Churches often have an unrealistic view of these issue. All workers paid and volunteer should be checked particularly when working with children. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I agree that all church employees and volunteers (especially those who work with minors) should undergo a background check. In many cases, it is as easy as visiting your state's registered sex offender website. My own son was molested by a teacher at an SDA School. When we reported it, my son was effectively disfellowshipped (at 14 years old!); and the offending teacher quietly sent across the country to teach at a different SDA school. My son quit the church over it - never went back to any church. We had people discretely contact us about the same thing happening to their kids, with the same results. Covering up child molestation is not a Catholic monopoly! I'm with those who opine that if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear! Sure, they may be converted; but there are still secular consequences to past mistakes. Just because a convicted rapist or pedophile claims to be a sold-out "born again" SDA doesn't mean I'm gonna let him date or teach (or in any other circumstance be alone with) my underage daughter. Are there any dads out these who would? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I agree that all church employees and volunteers (especially those who work with minors) should undergo a background check. In many cases, it is as easy as visiting your state's registered sex offender website. My own son was molested by a teacher at an SDA School. When we reported it, my son was effectively disfellowshipped (at 14 years old!); and the offending teacher quietly sent across the country to teach at a different SDA school. My son quit the church over it - never went back to any church. We had people discretely contact us about the same thing happening to their kids, with the same results. Covering up child molestation is not a Catholic monopoly! I'm with those who opine that if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear! Sure, they may be converted; but there are still secular consequences to past mistakes. Just because a convicted rapist or pedophile claims to be a sold-out "born again" SDA doesn't mean I'm gonna let him date or teach (or in any other circumstance be alone with) my underage daughter. Are there any dads out these who would? Unless they go after those that allow this by coverup/moving/denying you are only applying a band aid. Those that covered up,made excuses and just plain did nothing thru five conferences for thirty years have nothing to fear.Many went on to promotions. The conference president and all those that had knowledge should have shared the same fate as the pastor finally did.If a conference president has to suffer the same humiliation and loss of any position within the church and jail time if warranted they will be a little more conscientious when it comes to the children and families of others Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planey Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 True, Bonnie. Unfortunately it seems to be as David Letterman said, "Three strikes and you're transferred." Graeme Quote Graeme____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 True, Bonnie. Unfortunately it seems to be as David Letterman said, "Three strikes and you're transferred." Graeme There can be slight improvements here and there but there will never be anything close to a solution. One pastor/teacher/? can destroy the lives of many. Think of those that allowed a pastor to continue for thirty years and five conferences.How many offenders did they do this with.They don't do it with just one Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted November 12, 2012 Members Share Posted November 12, 2012 I agree, wwe are now forster parents of our 2 grandchildren, and we had to go through a criminal check. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Amen, Bonnie. Furthermore, just like middle-aged Catholic men are suing (and winning) the Catholic Church for misdeeds covered over 30 or more years ago, SDA's that were molested as young people should do the same. That would probably motivate compliance to the criminal background check just a little ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators LynnDel Posted November 13, 2012 Moderators Share Posted November 13, 2012 It is inconceivable that when we are asking volunteers to undergo background checks that we don't have all church employees, including pastors and teachers, do the same. Quote LD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 It is inconceivable that when we are asking volunteers to undergo background checks that we don't have all church employees, including pastors and teachers, do the same. Do you realize what a nightmare that would be for the existing pastors,church employees and teachers and then have those that knew about what the background checks uncover held to the same accountability .Our chance of that ever happening is about as plausible as the sun coming up in the west. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Amen, Bonnie. Furthermore, just like middle-aged Catholic men are suing (and winning) the Catholic Church for misdeeds covered over 30 or more years ago, SDA's that were molested as young people should do the same. That would probably motivate compliance to the criminal background check just a little ... Until those sitting in positions of authority first and foremost have their own background checks,regardless of how long they have held that position and or are held accountable for what they know and allow it is a bandaid. One offending pastor is caught,how many offending pastors/teachers and?? is allowed to spread their questionable charms from conference to conference Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon1 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 And how many members let each case be swept under the rug? Well past time to appoint a traveling legal clinic to educate the laity. Intro class: #1 - Pick up phone. #2 - Call police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 And how many members let each case be swept under the rug? Well past time to appoint a traveling legal clinic to educate the laity. Intro class: #1 - Pick up phone. #2 - Call police. A lot of members are guilty of that because they see what happens to those that do stick their necks out. There is also some of this. Exact quote, "I am so sorry but he was doing some good things so we didn't know what to do" Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon1 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 The current scandal at the BBC illustrates these concerns. A national celebrity ("living saint") with a charitable foundation. Heads are rolling. See first video for panel outrage. Tip of the iceberg: http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=65&contentid=10329 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted November 14, 2012 Moderators Share Posted November 14, 2012 Do you realize what a nightmare that would be for the existing pastors,church employees and teachers and then have those that knew about what the background checks uncover held to the same accountability .Our chance of that ever happening is about as plausible as the sun coming up in the west. I disagree. The vast majority would understand and welcome a background check. Most are committed and Godly people. The new hire process for our conference is rigorous and thorough. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Originally Posted By: bonnie Do you realize what a nightmare that would be for the existing pastors,church employees and teachers and then have those that knew about what the background checks uncover held to the same accountability .Our chance of that ever happening is about as plausible as the sun coming up in the west. I disagree. The vast majority would understand and welcome a background check. Most are committed and Godly people. The new hire process for our conference is rigorous and thorough. Really?You say the new hire process,what happens to those that have been continuous employment for the last thirty years. If a rigorous process was used for all imagine the conference president or others that knew and passed them on. When the offending party is finally brought to light the fingers all over his transfers and keeping quiet are all over it.How many have been passed over,are still employed and still thought of as godly men? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzarkWoman Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Originally Posted By: Darls Explain me, pastor? Not sure what you mean. Many pastors have NEVER had a background check for their work with the church. I have for other agencies I've worked for but not for the church. Its unfortunate but true. Churches often have an unrealistic view of these issue. All workers paid and volunteer should be checked particularly when working with children. You, or anyone else for that matter, don't always know when a check is run. If I had your SS# and full name or some other information, I could run a check on you and you would never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I disagree. The vast majority would understand and welcome a background check. Most are committed and Godly people. The new hire process for our conference is rigorous and thorough. The new hire process is an important tool,that only takes care of the ones that have been reported. A much bigger problem is the ones that aren't reported and protected by the powers that be. It is not only minor children but very young adults and adults in a vulnerable position. It is a felony in most states to have an inappropriate relationship with those that are being counseled/helped etc by pastors. These go under the radar more often than not. Only when those that turn a blind eye and pass the offender on to the next unsuspecting church are held to the same standard as the offender can you expect the change there should be.When a pastor has been transferred five times,each time with the knowledge of his behavior being the reason,there are five conference presidents that should go down with him when someone finally stops him.They don't,they stand like Pilate showing their clean hands. The church hierarchy has been dragged kicking and screaming thru lawsuits and bad PR this far,not because of some true concern.True concern would mean that precautions as far as possible would have been taken without the heartache,cost and many times destroying those that dare to come forward. Those reporting inappropriate behavior would not first have to dress in the best battle gear available Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Amen, Bonnie! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Amen, Bonnie! I am not against background checks.They certainly are needed,but with the past behavior of the "church" in this regard it is like "getting a false positive" and makes the membership feel more at ease.Background checks are only as effective as the background that has been reported. Personally I would like to see those in positions of authority and responsibility with prior knowledge go to jail.Preferably before or at the same time as the offender. Jail time for a conference president should lead to a little "Come To Jesus" experience for the rest of them Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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