Woody Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Okay pk. Cool . Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted December 30, 2012 Members Share Posted December 30, 2012 Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 See, all things between friends are minor... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 pk - if you like this one also - I give up Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted January 7, 2013 Administrators Share Posted January 7, 2013 JoeMo, I have had disagreements, and disagreements with members that were deeply disturbing. it just happened at one time a friend of mine was needing to fast and pray over a personal matter and she asked me to join her, so just to support her i did. and i spent this time praying and fasting about what was also deeply bothering me. to my great delight after praying and fasting for three days, the difficulty i was having just dissolved and it never bothered me again. i deeply believe God is very involved with our lives, every thought of our hearts, and everything that is happening not only in our churches but in our world. and i find for myself i need to just give more room for God to work, and relinquish more of what i have felt i needed to control. so i would suggest pray more and focus on shining the light of God's character around you as you are empowered to do so. I believe God is in charge of everything we give to him. Give him your church, and give him your disagreements, and let God guide you in everything and i am really certain He will. deb Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 So is the Church a hospital for healing sick saints? Or is it a convalescent center for the chronically ill? In other words, is the purpose of the church to help us in the process of conforming to the image of Christ in us or is the church to comfort us while we have one foot in Heaven and the other firmly planted in the world? Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Live the light that you have. Study to show Yourself approved of God and pray for them that do not agree with you. I once was ready to give up on God and throw in the towel. I gave God 14 days to fix my life or I'm out of here. I told Him what I saw as the problem and what I was going to do when I left Him. He fixed the situation in 5 days and told me that He would have fixed it sooner if only I had asked. Then in regard to my ultimatum, God showed me that my problem was that I loved sin more than Jesus. That took longer to fix. Doctrine is not the problem. Ellen White is not the problem. And Love is not the problem. Lots of people who want to do away with doctrine and the Spirit of Prophecy in favor of LOVE, but they don't have very happy lives because they don't know what love is. For them it is a illusion that they crave, but never find; while claiming to have it. If a sufficiently large portion of church members were correctly trained in the doctrines, there would not be such confusion in our ranks. But reading this topic it is clear that some pastors are doing their thing and believing what they want and staying in good standing so that they can spread all sorts of stuff that will not bear a good harvest. I had to realize that I was broken before I could be fixed. If the church is broken, it can't be fixed if it thinks it does not have any problems. There is more hope of bringing light to a believer in another faith than to bringing New Light to our church. It "teaches" the wait and see attitude like those in Noah's day. When it was raining then it was too late for them. Likewise, when it is too late for us, the true followers of Jesus will be divided from the self-willed want-ta-bees. What to do? PRAY like your life depended on it. PRAY for those who don't see things as you do. But never consider leaving the Church if you really love God. He will take care of you and the church, (unfortunately that does not include everyone who considers themselves a member in good standing). Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted January 8, 2013 Author Share Posted January 8, 2013 hch, You advised me to live the light that I have. What if the "light" I have doesn't conform 100% to SDA Fundamentals (or more importantly - prevailing SDA culture)? That doesn't necessarily prove that my "light" is incorrect. You state that if a sufficiently large portion of church members were correctly trained in the doctrines, there would not be such confusion in our ranks. Sufficiently "trained" or sufficiently "brainwashed"? I was sufficiently "trained" in Catholic doctrine; and was unsatisfied with it. So I sought out something "better". God has shown me (indeed our whole church) things that don't conform to prevailing SDA culture; and it has severely negatively impacted the relationship of our local church to the Conference (we are no longer allowed to call ourselves SDAs). Are we taking a bold stand for God or are we heathen infidels? From my viewpoint, it's the former. You state that if the church is broken, it can't be fixed if it thinks it does not have any problems. All I can say to that is Amen, brother. BTW, don't be suprised if your previous 2 posts get edited. On these yellow forums, we're not supposed to quote anyone - not even each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 hch - comfort and conforming are both good goals of the church. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted January 9, 2013 Administrators Share Posted January 9, 2013 the unity in the church is the word of God. and there are many things the word of God does not specifically and clearly speak to, so there is a diverse plethora of ideas and views, but still an agreement on basic scriptural truths, ie the Sabbath. There is a set of rules of interpretation called hermeneutics that are used to guide the SDA understanding of honest and true interpretation of scriptures. if you have thoughts or ideas that you find are out of harmony or agreement with the church, let it be examined. Find an SDA theologian who understands the correct use of hermeneutics, and run your beliefs you hold in scripture by this understanding. you may find yourself outside or inside, or faced with a decision. It would be very affirming to you i am certain, and clear up a lot of what may concern you. If you are doing right and good then we should all share in that. deb Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 Hermeneutics is not a discipline exclusively available to SDA's. Other (non-SDA) theologians using the same discipline are able to dismantle certain peculiar SDA beliefs. It still all boils down to a person's faith and how they filter that faith through their world view and life experience. For example, IMO it would be much more difficult for a person who had an abusive, non-supportive, and/or absent father to percieve Father God as a loving, patient accepting daddy looking for trust and intimacy from His kids. Also, there are certain beliefs held sacred for over 100 years by traditional SDA culture that are robustly refuted by current hard archeological and biological evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 All that being said, It would take alot for someone to convince me to be anything but an SDA (generically, at least). I am a huge fan of both the Sabbath and the Second Coming (making me a "generic" SDA); and have no problem with generic Christian doctrine ( like Jesus is my Lord and Savior, that He is God, and that it is only by His merit and grace that I am saved). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted January 9, 2013 Administrators Share Posted January 9, 2013 It is amazing how unified diverse ones can be at times. I like to think that the Holy Spirit has a part to play... Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 Absolutely, Gail; the Holy Spirit (Rhema), together with God's Holy Word (Logos) trumps all other sources of inspiration and dogma. So, If you truly believe that you have received a Word from the Holy Spirit and you can find confirmation in Scripture, but it goes against SDA culture or your interpretation of the Fundamentals, what do you do? Do you automatically go with the denomination or do you silently incorprate it into your belief system; even though you know that it goes against - say for example - the writings of EGW? aka 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 I don't ask these questions as a motivation or an excuse for rebellion against the church; I ask because this is a real dilemma for a lot of SDA's (and probably other Christians and members of Non-Christian faiths, too!). It's the primary motivation for why people convert from one denomination to another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted January 10, 2013 Administrators Share Posted January 10, 2013 I found myself wondering about the nature of saints, as in Catholicism, from things described in revelation. I asked an amazing facts bible question guy, he was was amazing in explaining the hermeneutics and the different principles involved in interpretation. There are very distinctly different sources for the approach to understanding the meaning of scriptures. we can very sincerely come to different ideas of what the Bible is saying. I found there is a hermeneutic that originates from the Greeks, that leads to some very different interpretations, and it was so worthwhile to learn this. It helped me immensely. and it was amazing for me to learn this. Give it a chance. there are winds of various doctrines blowing, and if you will ask, and search it out, you will be able to understand the sources for the divergent beliefs. It is enlightening. I talk to someone everyday who is fully able to intellectually refute each and every teaching of SDA church, one by one, and promote evolution, and critical thinking above scripture. My faith is held up to ridicule from every direction. So i know their can be a conflict and a challenge to hold onto each teaching of the SDA church, and to love it and understand it's value, and why the enemy hates. The enemy of truth is working in any way possible to dislodge truths like The sanctuary, and creation, and The nature of the work of the holy spirit. To make eternal truths look obscure and strange, when it is just not true. not everyone has the spiritual gift of teaching the scriptures. there are many gifts in the church. I was happy to recognize someone who's spiritual gift was able to help me understand my churches biblical teachings, and where divergent views come from. give it a shot talk to someone and run stuff by them at amazing facts, they are good. It is your journey. Don't just settle for one side, you can explore. i filter my world view and my life experience through my faith, and not the other way around, that way i would come up with whatever pleases me, and my heart is not a higher source of truth then the word of God. Let God be true. deb Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 JoeMo, Discovery: I found the edit key. Since God is fair, it would not be right to hold you responsible for what you don't know or for what you did not have the opportunity to know. But if you don't live up to the truth that God blessed you, why should He waste time trying to give you more? If you are taking the position that the SDA church is absolutely right about everything all the time, you must not have heard of 1888. In that unfortunate year, the SDA leadership was opposing THE truth. But the errors of the Church past, present, or future do not make it any less the representative of Christ. The SDA Church is Christ's chosen instrument to get the gospel to the world until He comes. Regarding prevailing SDA Culture, we are to be in the world, but not of the world. Within SDA Culture, there is a sub culture - the remnant of the remnant. Imagine a church of 14,000,000 members that would be hard pressed to find 1 in 100 that live up to God's standard. If that ratio were true, the SDA's would be hard pressed to find 144,000 if they needed to make up the endtime saints. For the SDA Church to be the remnant Church, it has to be like the apostolic Church. Do you suppose that Jesus brainwashed them? His principles of educating people was by living the example and tossing out extraneous teachings that man added to the Word of God. Rightly trained is not BRAINWASHED. I used to have a SDA preacher that was a baptist at heart (he converted from baptist). When I told him so, he preached his heart out on the SDA beliefs that he held dear. Then he sent me a private email explaining why Christ's Second Advent was not imminent. Since God probably has people in all churches, are they coming to the SDA Church because of heart knowledge, head knowledge or because they made some friends and they want to be where their friends are? After Laodicea was declared to be self-sufficient and needed nothing because they were rich, the rich men cry for the rocks to fall on them. If Laodicea were the rich men, it does not sound like they mended their way. So I would have to conclude that when the remnant Church gets to glory, it won't have all of its members intact. Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Woody, How is conforming a good goal of the church? I've heard is said that some folks are so heavenly minded that they are not earthly good. I would counter that position by noting that some folks are so earthly minded (conformed) that they are no heavenly good. Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Since I am unable to quote your comments Gail. I will just say that I agree with them. :) Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 hch - as a Christian - I do as Christ did. And the focus and center approach of Christ's actions were to comfort others. As were his directives of what we are to do. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 I predict that your previous post will be heavily edited. You can't quote anyone on these yellow forums - not even me. Without taking the time to dissect each specific response seperately, I will simply say that I don't generally agree with your premise that the SDA Church is Christ's chosen instrument to get the gospel to the world until He comes. Lots of denominations are introducing people to Jesus and the gospel - just not all in accordance with SDA doctrine. That doesn't automatically make them tools of satan. What's more important - getting people into a relationship with Jesus or making sure they understand the performance provisions of the denominational contract? I believe that I am answerable to God - not the SDA Church. I would be committing the sin of lying if I said that I accept everything the church(or what any particular sub group of the church) currenly teaches as the carte blanche truth. Come to think of it, we as SDA's don't even agree on what is the truth. Take your comment on 1888. There are lots of SDA's that think that era was a time of great enlightenment for SDA's. aka 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted January 10, 2013 Administrators Share Posted January 10, 2013 A word concerning JoeMo's prediction: A prophet!! Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Without quoting JoeMo - I say a big and hearty - AMEN Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Yes Gail - I do believe that JoeMo is a prophet. And he is also of God. And if the words of Stan the Man are true - hch will be banned. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted January 10, 2013 Administrators Share Posted January 10, 2013 Are those your original thoughts? Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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